Relegation itself is not the issue.

[Ramrod 258]

Norwich City FC is relegated but, unlike others before, will not be financially crippled by the fact as most EPL income just goes to overpaid loanees and mercenaries who never seem to fit in or play with much love for the Club. 

Contracted players take the salary hit with few, if any, able to look elsewhere. They know they cannot cut it in the EPL. They need to rediscover their Championship mojo. 

Clubs who survive in the EPL, including NCFC once, do so because of a collective togetherness which makes them better than the sum of their parts. This is manifestly absent from NCFC with players who owed their careers to scapegoated Daniel Farke and others, who just looked peripheral, never appearing to bond fully and never bond with the supporters. One wonders how they get on with Dean Smith? 

The Club has to not only rebuild a unit of a squad it has to rebuild its relationship with its supporters. There is something seriously missing, the kind of thing that saw players and fans at the Clubs who survived raising their own fervour and passion. No one really felt any belief or expectation after 10 games in. 

The CEO (or equivalent), Owners, Management and Senior Players are remote figures whereas high profile, public versions of the same have galvanised supporters in the past. It is detached and remote. Our best professionals, like Pukki, arent overt personalities either.

Clearly, a refresh is needed and there will be plenty of squad places to fill. Dean Smith must bring in some personality, character and physicality and we all hope this will be a season for the likes of Idah, Omobamidele and other home developed prospects to shine. We can always take to our own, easily. 

But more of the same attitude from the Club management and matters could soon get worse. They have to look at themselves and set the right tone and if promotion can be reacheived it must be with a squad that will be kept together to try again as a unit. 

[DraytonBoy 160]

I watched half of the games on-line and what struck me was the lack of leadership, personal responsibility and desire. I'm not convinced having several short term loans in the team works in the PL especially when you know pretty much from the start that you'll be battling relegation the whole season. Gallagher at Palace is a example of how one good loan player in a key position can strengthen a side but 3/4 loanees in a struggling team, don't think so.

[king canary 7,654]

5 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

I watched half of the games on-line and what struck me was the lack of leadership, personal responsibility and desire. I'm not convinced having several short term loans in the team works in the PL especially when you know pretty much from the start that you'll be battling relegation the whole season. Gallagher at Palace is a example of how one good loan player in a key position can strengthen a side but 3/4 loanees in a struggling team, don't think so.

This is why I'm constantly sceptical on how good Hanley actually is.

He's the captain of the team and the leader of the defence but they constantly look disorganised, unaware of their team mates and generally lacking in any semblance of organisation. I'm not saying Hanley can be blamed for others dropping clangers but the lack of leadership starts with him.

[Google Bot 3,298]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

I'm not saying Hanley can be blamed for others dropping clangers but the lack of leadership starts with him.

We needed a captain who, regardless of their own performance, has the guile to call others out for it. However, It's incredibly hard to do when you're an integral part of the problem.   You need a pretty big ego at that point, or someone who's inherently quite an imposing character so you don't spin it back onto them.

[Petriix 2,852]

I totally agree. While I think a team with natural leaders and togetherness can accommodate an enthusiastic loanee or two, I don't think it's possible to function with so many players who don't care about the club. Normann is the perfect example: we've seen flashes of undoubted quality but an overall lack of commitment, especially when asked to work off the ball. I'll never forget watching him lose his man against Watford allowing them a 2 v 1 in our box; that's just not acceptable at any level of the game. We've seen exactly the same from Gilmour - a refusal to do the hard work off the ball, almost as if he believes himself to be above all that.

I firmly believe that the majority of our problems lie in midfield. We used to have a strong unit of 5, all working together to win and retain the ball. Wide players who paired up with their respective fullbacks to protect the flanks. CDMs who would drop between the CBs, patrol the edge of the box and track runners from deep. A central number 10 who would operate as a first line of defence, falling into rank when without the ball, but ready to spring into attack and offer some support to Pukki.

We need leadership and commitment in the middle of the park. Someone like Milner or Henderson who will hold it all together. I used to think that Tettey lacked positional discipline but, in comparison to the rabble we've assembled this year, I think we really miss him. I'd take Trybull and Stiepermann too over PLM. It's damning that we've spent so much money but apparently gone backwards.

There is hope. Once the loanees are gone, PLM could warm the bench, Rashica could be an impact sub, Tzolis could find some form at a lower level, Cantwell might rediscover his mojo etc. But we need one or (ideally) two very solid midfielders in the Skipp mould. Then, with adequate protection in front of them, the defence will also look a lot more solid. With Omobamidele back and another CB signing I think we've got enough ability in there. I even think we could lose Aarons without too much damage.

But, to succeed, we need Dean Smith to stop flapping around with different formations and instill a functioning system back into the squad. I think we've seen 4-2-3-1 emerge again as the favoured setup. Now we need to sign the players to make it work, and hopefully some of this high press that we've heard about. I'm not sure he's got the ability to succeed, and I think we'll really miss Farke next season. But I'm hoping to be proved wrong.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

48 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

I watched half of the games on-line and what struck me was the lack of leadership, personal responsibility and desire. I'm not convinced having several short term loans in the team works in the PL especially when you know pretty much from the start that you'll be battling relegation the whole season. Gallagher at Palace is a example of how one good loan player in a key position can strengthen a side but 3/4 loanees in a struggling team, don't think so.

I think this is part of the mentality issue - what went wrong.

Kabak, Norman, Gilmour & Williams. They are not bad players but none of them could really think of themselves as long term NCFC players with a future here but just doing a job for season. That must wrangle with the 'contracted' players deep down.

Two many loaners in or about the the starting 11.

[lake district canary 4,542]

51 minutes ago, king canary said:

This is why I'm constantly sceptical on how good Hanley actually is.

He's the captain of the team and the leader of the defence but they constantly look disorganised, unaware of their team mates and generally lacking in any semblance of organisation. I'm not saying Hanley can be blamed for others dropping clangers but the lack of leadership starts with him.

This echoes my thoughts. Zimmermann is a huge inspiration on the field, physically a dominating character and showing good leadership - but as a pairing with Hanley, it never seemed to work that well.  Zimbo and Godfrey was good, Zimbo and Gibson good too - but of the players we have now, I'd like to see Zimbo and Omo as a pair - I think they would be excellent together (if Zimbo is back to his best).

[shefcanary 2,444]

1 hour ago, Ramrod said:

The CEO (or equivalent), Owners, Management and Senior Players are remote figures whereas high profile, public versions of the same have galvanised supporters in the past. It is detached and remote. Our best professionals, like Pukki, arent overt personalities either.

Agree with your general gist here, but just to point out there is no CEO or equivalent!  The majority owners invited the senior administrator in the Executive to join the Board as some kind of conduit between Board and Executive (but a conduit only from what I can make out, with no accountability), which in the absence of a Chairperson, was nodded through despite it being absurd and causing a real issue over conflict of interest!  Until both roles are filled properly, there is very little chance of seeing the EPL again.  But as others have postulated perhaps that is what Smith & Jones want.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,781]

Controversial opinion that I'm not sure too many might agree with but here we go anyways

 

The Premier league as it is right now is honestly pretty poor. It's corrupt, it's full of dirty money and blood money teams, VAR has sucked the fun out of scoring, half the refs are bumbling clowns and it's full of plastic moaner fans who complain, cry and demand their team sack their manager and fire half their squad if they so much as lose more than two matches in a row.

Would I like to see us as a midtable Prem side? Well of course, would be nice. But do I like the divison as it is? No, the gap between the top ten clubs and the rest is starting to get so big that even the teams that are able to finish outside the relegation spots and survive are getting spanked 3/4/5 nill every other match.

The Premier Leauge is quite frankly very very overrated. 

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I would maintain that if a very wealthy bidder like Radcliffe came in, despite the criticisms of his business operation, the majority of supporters would welcome him. And to that end, the EPL would be the goal.

Whichever way we spin it, doing well and winning brings its own problems.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,144]

People rightly point out that we have a problem with our mentality, that too many players are meek and shut down when things get tough which is correct, but then I see people pining for Farke again when you forget it was him who wanted to assemble a squad of players like that. Farke liked his players to listen and do exactly as they are told, he often fell out with any players who had a bit more attitude, some of that attitude that we've been missing this season. Smith has also talked about what quiet group we have. If we still had Farke that would continue going into next season, at least now we can address the problem and get a few more stronger characters in, we badly need some real leaders in this team. We've got pointers and whingers, we've got players who try to lead by example but others don't follow. We've far too nice and far too accepting of being beaten and often beaten badly, that being changed alongside adding some pace and athleticism should be the overall goal of this summer window

[Badger 2,411]

17 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I would maintain that if a very wealthy bidder like Radcliffe came in, despite the criticisms of his business operation, the majority of supporters would welcome him. And to that end, the EPL would be the goal.

 

I am sure you are right - I certainly would!

A long as they are not responsible for torture/ civil rights abuses etc, I couldn't give a monkeys about our owners politics. 

I just don't think it's very likely even if the club were to put an advert in all the press!

[Monty13 2,246]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

This is why I'm constantly sceptical on how good Hanley actually is.

He's the captain of the team and the leader of the defence but they constantly look disorganised, unaware of their team mates and generally lacking in any semblance of organisation. I'm not saying Hanley can be blamed for others dropping clangers but the lack of leadership starts with him.

He’s a good player, he definitely leads by example but that’s not actual leadership.

Look around though, who else looks captain material? This squad looks pretty devoid of leaders.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

29 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Controversial opinion that I'm not sure too many might agree with but here we go anyways

 

The Premier league as it is right now is honestly pretty poor. It's corrupt, it's full of dirty money and blood money teams, VAR has sucked the fun out of scoring, half the refs are bumbling clowns and it's full of plastic moaner fans who complain, cry and demand their team sack their manager and fire half their squad if they so much as lose more than two matches in a row.

Would I like to see us as a midtable Prem side? Well of course, would be nice. But do I like the divison as it is? No, the gap between the top ten clubs and the rest is starting to get so big that even the teams that are able to finish outside the relegation spots and survive are getting spanked 3/4/5 nill every other match.

The Premier Leauge is quite frankly very very overrated. 

 

Fully agree. 
The only solution is to allow this Euro league to break away and a wage cap / grass roots rules system is put in for the rest of the leagues.
Almost like football needs a Rugby league / union style split or schism because the Prem just is not the promised land that it once was.

The British football league needs to grab the big boys by the balls as well and hold them responsible. 
Its like any capitalist economy I guess... a small % holds 95% of the wealth, Shame to see what football has become in the last 10 years.

[king canary 7,654]

14 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

People rightly point out that we have a problem with our mentality, that too many players are meek and shut down when things get tough which is correct, but then I see people pining for Farke again when you forget it was him who wanted to assemble a squad of players like that. Farke liked his players to listen and do exactly as they are told, he often fell out with any players who had a bit more attitude, some of that attitude that we've been missing this season. Smith has also talked about what quiet group we have. If we still had Farke that would continue going into next season, at least now we can address the problem and get a few more stronger characters in, we badly need some real leaders in this team. We've got pointers and whingers, we've got players who try to lead by example but others don't follow. We've far too nice and far too accepting of being beaten and often beaten badly, that being changed alongside adding some pace and athleticism should be the overall goal of this summer window

Yeah it makes you wonder if Farke prefers players who are more 'get your head down and follow instructions' or if the recruitment team just haven't prioitised it. But the quotes from Smith about how quiet the squad are have always stood out to me and I imagine will be an area of focus this summer.

[Monty13 2,246]

10 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

People rightly point out that we have a problem with our mentality, that too many players are meek and shut down when things get tough which is correct, but then I see people pining for Farke again when you forget it was him who wanted to assemble a squad of players like that. Farke liked his players to listen and do exactly as they are told, he often fell out with any players who had a bit more attitude, some of that attitude that we've been missing this season. Smith has also talked about what quiet group we have. If we still had Farke that would continue going into next season, at least now we can address the problem and get a few more stronger characters in, we badly need some real leaders in this team. We've got pointers and whingers, we've got players who try to lead by example but others don't follow. We've far too nice and far too accepting of being beaten and often beaten badly, that being changed alongside adding some pace and athleticism should be the overall goal of this summer window

This is my biggest criticism of Farke. Good leaders and managers can deal with strong personalities and egos.

Under Farke we seemed to ostracise and push out a lot of players that still looked like they had something to offer. Players relegated to the 23s and deemed surplus who’d been good servants, it was odd.

It was fine while we were winning, we didn’t miss them, but I think it was a sign of something that maybe ultimately cost him.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

New 'Billionaire' Owners.

I see many on here want (or worse expect) some billionaire owner to come in and buy the club and invest zillions. The big problem with that is that Norwich is very small city, almost unknown outside the UK with little global appeal to be a play thing for such an owner - and lets also be frank - most of these clubs are loss leaders anyway (Will Abramovich ever get his Chelsea loans back 😉)

We are not a fashionable London club, Liverpool or Manchester or even Newcastle with kudos. We are not suitable as a show-off bauble for somebodies hobby.

That's also true for about 1/2 the EPL clubs which is why they flirt with relegation every season and eventually drop aka Burnley. No doubt they are now a financial basket case.

Given the above unless some rich life long city supporter comes in from nowhere and wishes to burn his money we'll have to do the best we can and yes be 'self sustaining'. Anything else is financial suicide.

If you want to follow the money I'm sure you'll be welcomed along with all the other 'plastics' supporting Chelsea. Man City or Liverpool.    

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 409]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Controversial opinion that I'm not sure too many might agree with but here we go anyways

 

The Premier league as it is right now is honestly pretty poor. It's corrupt, it's full of dirty money and blood money teams, VAR has sucked the fun out of scoring, half the refs are bumbling clowns and it's full of plastic moaner fans who complain, cry and demand their team sack their manager and fire half their squad if they so much as lose more than two matches in a row.

Would I like to see us as a midtable Prem side? Well of course, would be nice. But do I like the division as it is? No, the gap between the top ten clubs and the rest is starting to get so big that even the teams that are able to finish outside the relegation spots and survive are getting spanked 3/4/5 nill every other match.

The Premier League is quite frankly very very overrated. 

 

"plastic moaner fans"

For someone who never goes to games that's a bit rich. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

4 hours ago, Ramrod said:

Norwich City FC is relegated but, unlike others before, will not be financially crippled by the fact as most EPL income just goes to overpaid loanees and mercenaries who never seem to fit in or play with much love for the Club. 

Contracted players take the salary hit with few, if any, able to look elsewhere. They know they cannot cut it in the EPL. They need to rediscover their Championship mojo. 

Clubs who survive in the EPL, including NCFC once, do so because of a collective togetherness which makes them better than the sum of their parts. This is manifestly absent from NCFC with players who owed their careers to scapegoated Daniel Farke and others, who just looked peripheral, never appearing to bond fully and never bond with the supporters. One wonders how they get on with Dean Smith? 

The Club has to not only rebuild a unit of a squad it has to rebuild its relationship with its supporters. There is something seriously missing, the kind of thing that saw players and fans at the Clubs who survived raising their own fervour and passion. No one really felt any belief or expectation after 10 games in. 

The CEO (or equivalent), Owners, Management and Senior Players are remote figures whereas high profile, public versions of the same have galvanised supporters in the past. It is detached and remote. Our best professionals, like Pukki, arent overt personalities either.

Clearly, a refresh is needed and there will be plenty of squad places to fill. Dean Smith must bring in some personality, character and physicality and we all hope this will be a season for the likes of Idah, Omobamidele and other home developed prospects to shine. We can always take to our own, easily. 

But more of the same attitude from the Club management and matters could soon get worse. They have to look at themselves and set the right tone and if promotion can be reacheived it must be with a squad that will be kept together to try again as a unit. 

I agree with plenty of this. Whatever the talent of the player brought in, we didn't seem to get anyone in who hates losing. Normann talked to talk but didn't seem that bothered in the end. There will always be some players who are quiet etc like Pukki, but that doesn't mean they aren't very competitive. Seeing Pukki pound the turf when he misses an opportunity shows it. We need to put hungry, ambitious and competitive above pure talent until we have a core of players that drag the others along with them with their desire to win. 

When I see the performances Smith got out of Idah before his injury, it does give me hope. Idah is a man mountain who previously has found it difficult to dominate the opposition. The three performances before his injury had that desire.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

I hate heaping the pressure on younger players but before he was injured Idah really was looking good.
Got a mate whos a West Ham fan who rated him highly against them and said he was a real danger, even went on to say hes the sort of guy he would love to see signed up.
Next year in the Champ really could be Idah's chance to set the league alight, up supporting Pukki could really see him adding goals and assists.

Given the year we have had, maybe a blessing in disguise that Idah and AO got injured or clubs could be sniffing around.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Nexus_Canary

[king canary 7,654]

7 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

I hate heaping the pressure on younger players but before he was injured Idah really was looking good.
Got a mate whos a West Ham fan who rated him highly against them and said he was a real danger, even went on to say hes the sort of guy he would love to see signed up.
Next year in the Champ really could be Idah's chance to set the league alight, up supporting Pukki could really see him adding goals and assists.

Given the year we have had, maybe a blessing in disguise that Idah and AO got injured or clubs could be sniffing around.

Yeah I think we need to look at building around Idah and Omobamidele next season both in terms of giving us the best chance to bounce back up and also giving us two young, saleable assets if we don't. 

The big question will be how do you fit Idah and Teemu into the same team without totally exposing the midfield. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,781]

27 minutes ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

"plastic moaner fans"

For someone who never goes to games that's a bit rich. 

Hate to break the obvious to you but there are no plastics supporting us/Norwich as they would have ****ed off years ago. Been a lifelonng fan, lived in Norwich half my life and sent my childhood down carrow road but of course you know me more than I do. Juse bore off already at least Greavsy did.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 409]

10 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Hate to break the obvious to you but there are no plastics supporting us/Norwich as they would have ****ed off years ago. Been a lifelonng fan, lived in Norwich half my life and sent my childhood down carrow road but of course you know me more than I do. Juse bore off already at least Greavsy did.

Shame you don't spend half your adulthood there too. Stop angry typing as your typos are horrendous.

[Ramrod 258]

5 hours ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Fully agree. 
The only solution is to allow this Euro league to break away and a wage cap / grass roots rules system is put in for the rest of the leagues.
Almost like football needs a Rugby league / union style split or schism because the Prem just is not the promised land that it once was.

The British football league needs to grab the big boys by the balls as well and hold them responsible. 
Its like any capitalist economy I guess... a small % holds 95% of the wealth, Shame to see what football has become in the last 10 years.

When the 'big six' wanted to join a European Super League the supporters of most other clubs said 'yes, go!' 

[Newtopia 519]

10 hours ago, king canary said:

This is why I'm constantly sceptical on how good Hanley actually is.

He's the captain of the team and the leader of the defence but they constantly look disorganised, unaware of their team mates and generally lacking in any semblance of organisation. I'm not saying Hanley can be blamed for others dropping clangers but the lack of leadership starts with him.

I know exactly what you mean, the same is true for so many players, they may well be the best we have, but they could also be affecting the players around them.

I always wonder about Pukki, we undoubtedly uncovered a gem who loves tidy through balls, yet we embarked on a full scale winger recruitment programme.  When will Placheta ever thread a ball to Pukki?  Either we needed another Wes Hoolihan recruiting or a different sort of striker.