Delia out

[stratton canary 134]

110%

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

16 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

If you can’t criticise Webber for the recruitment this season then you can never criticise him for anything. It’s been laughably bad. He appears not to be able to see the blindingly obvious in terms of what the team really needs.

Recruitment is a collective process. Webber is an important part of it, but not the only part of it, so what's needed is an understanding of what went wrong in the process and what needs to be changed in the process, either in terms of personnel or approach. 

[For the future 65]

This won’t happen 

[Jim Smith 2,322]

15 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Recruitment is a collective process. Webber is an important part of it, but not the only part of it, so what's needed is an understanding of what went wrong in the process and what needs to be changed in the process, either in terms of personnel or approach. 

Well the key point seems to be that key people went on gardening leave so he had to take a more “hands on” role! 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

9 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Well the key point seems to be that key people went on gardening leave so he had to take a more “hands on” role! 

Went on gardening leave at a critical moment, which tends to put more of the falure on those people who left than Webber himself in my eyes. Like I said, it's about processes and those people's absence screwed the process. 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

Been out and not read all this thread, but the first nine posters all want Delia out, and that is before Jim Smith had a chance to weigh in! So when is your first meeting?

There are valid criticisms to be made of S&J's ownership/the financial model. Do something about it. If the first nine posters on a thread are any indication of the feeling of a decent proportion of fans then it should not be hard to find enough like-minded people with the energy and the wit to launch a proper campaign.

Which would have twin interlinked aims - of attacking the status quo and - more importantly -- of mapping out a viable and well-funded alternative, and seeking out those able to provide such.

[Keith Scott 244]

Cheers guys. Seems most are with me. Post of the thread goes to Nora's Ghost. Spot on my friend. As for self appointed hard man Hogey, policing the crowd. Quelling those who dare show dissent to the matriarch. What a NFN.

Delia out.

All the best. Big K.Scott.

 

[Big Vince 318]

If ever there was a time for Chase to be brought back on an emergency loan deal, that time is now.

[Big Vince 318]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Recruitment is a collective process. Webber is an important part of it, but not the only part of it, so what's needed is an understanding of what went wrong in the process and what needs to be changed in the process, either in terms of personnel or approach. 

I keep saying the same thing over and over. You will never get recruitment right for the EPL unless you are going to pay EPL wages. Forget about process, personnel or approach. It is all about MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

[Big Vince 318]

8 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

If you can’t criticise Webber for the recruitment this season then you can never criticise him for anything. It’s been laughably bad. He appears not to be able to see the blindingly obvious in terms of what the team really needs.

They needed two defensive midfielders for the previous EPL campaign so to not get in two defensive midfielders again is appalling and unforgivable.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,553]

2 hours ago, Big Vince said:

They needed two defensive midfielders for the previous EPL campaign so to not get in two defensive midfielders again is appalling and unforgivable.

Agreed, but good defensive mids are a lot easier to come by, plus the fact that pretty much the only person capable of scoring is Pukki means our opposition's defending has mostly simply been about containing one person. In many ways, I think Pukki getting 11 goals is a testament to how good he is under the circumstances. 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,418]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Sadly the height of some ambition on here is to have Delia in control and nothing else. Put the club up for sale and see what happens. We won't know until we try but the Delia train has reached its station.

That's really not true. But no-one and I mean no-one can even offer up a viable alternate, realistic plan.

[horsefly 4,302]

12 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

The desire to initiate, guide and maintain behaviours in pursuit of a goal, and the ability to maintain that momentum to ensure the goal is achieved.  Something that most people in their 80s struggle to do.  Now please go away.

Marvellous! That's a wonderfully unhelpful non-explanation that doesn't add a single substantive point to the debate. Two promotions in the last 4 years and two demotions. Honours even on that score. City, well ahead of their projected progress when they massively overhauled the clubs structures after the sacking of Alex Neil. Club no longer under threat of administration. Looking forward to your multi-page business plan that will solve all of the clubs problems.

[Jim Smith 2,322]

10 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

That's really not true. But no-one and I mean no-one can even offer up a viable alternate, realistic plan.

They need to publically invite offers and then we can assess that. We have no idea if there are viable, realistic plans until they do that or unless we know who they may already have snubbed. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Jim Smith

[horsefly 4,302]

10 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Which would have twin interlinked aims - of attacking the status quo and - more importantly -- of mapping out a viable and well-funded alternative, and seeking out those able to provide such.

Indeed! And no one who has posted on here has come up with anything remotely resembling such a map beyond the fantasy of the sale of the club to a mythical billionaire desperate to throw money at the transfer budget. The club radically overhauled its business structure (after the sacking of Neil) precisely because no such investors came forward, and the club was in financial peril. By the terms of that restructuring it has achieved an awful lot, much quicker than expected. There is, of course, a genuine concern that the self-funding model makes PL consolidation extremely difficult; but until someone comes up with an alternative, this model represents the only financially viable model, that has at least seen us promoted two times in the last 4 seasons.

[horsefly 4,302]

23 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

They need to publically invite offers and then we can assess that. We have no idea if there are viable, realistic plans until they do that or unless we know who they may already have snubbed. 

What stops a billionaire saying he wants to buy the club? Many takeovers begin with someone publicly declaring their interest (often against the wishes of the current owners) in order to galvanise fan support behind their bid. Any billionaire genuinely interested in NCFC could financially blow Delia out of the water.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

14 hours ago, hogesar said:

To be fair when you say "invest" in, thus financially, the most attractive would have been when in League One. Which you most certainly didn't praise them for making us financially attractive to investors for, but is the reality...

I’m not sure that holds true hoggie, hear me out. Yes, for normal businesses it holds true that the best time to buy in (or buy out) is when their stock is low, but hat I think this misses is that the earning power of a football club is infinitely higher in the Premier League compared to League One. A normal business has a flat market, revenues and profits are driven by volume but the market doesn’t change if they’re having a good year vs. A bad year.

I’d argue, strongly, that our chances of attracting new owners is vastly higher upon promotion to the EPL when we then need to survive it, granted something we fail to do often enough, but at least we have the EPL money coming in straight away. Compare that to buying us at League One, where we had financial issues and needed to get promoted twice over 2 seasons and near 100 games of football (where anything can happen). I think someone investing in a football club would find an EPL club a much more attractive proposition. After all look at Ashley, he didn’t try to sell Newcastle in the Championship, he made sure they got promoted back to the EPL and then he put the club publicly back up for sale, and we can see what happened there.

[Jim Smith 2,322]

12 minutes ago, horsefly said:

What stops a billionaire saying he wants to buy the club? Many takeovers begin with someone publicly declaring their interest (often against the wishes of the current owners) in order to galvanise fan support behind their bid. Any billionaire genuinely interested in NCFC could financially blow Delia out of the water.

And more takeovers (of football clubs) begin with an owner making it known that the club is for sale and actively seeking a buyer rather than making it incredicbly difficult for anyone to ever come in. If you want a football club then why take on the hassle of trying to get past Delia an Michael when they make it clear they don't want to sell?

Put the club on the market - genuinely see what is out there. 

As to your other post re some sort of "radical re-haul of our business structure" there is a lot of smoke and mirrors in terms of what goes on. We got financially stretched and we had to sell a very good player (too cheap in my book) in order to plug the gap and get us back on a firm footing again. That is hardly rocket science or unusual for a football club who have been relegated. indeed we did it again last time we were relegated only this time it was to fund purchases rather than plug debts. We have no "radical business structure"  and the entire model is nothing more than something born out of necessity/the desire for our owners to retain ownership whilst putting in no money. Its held up as some kind of groundbreaking approach but it really isn't although I admit that in football living according to your means is not as widespeard as in other industries.  

Edited May 23, 2022 by Jim Smith

[Nexus_Canary 1,020]

Get a grip some of you

 

Someone get on the phone to the Saudis then?
Or maybe a big money American Businessman who wants to turn a profit?
Do you reckon Ryan Reynolds has any mates?

People in here are so quick to forget our history and the Chase era.
People forget the amount of promotions Delia Smith''s stewardship has bought and just look at the relegations.
The grass is not greener (ask I5pwi1h, remember how excited they were when Marcus Evans came in? That ended well!)
There is this utopian belief that a change of owners will turn us into Leicester or some ethically sound Man City, the reality of new ownership would probably be us being a Championship team rather than a yoyo team NOT a Premier league team.

Yes the ownership have made some bad decisions with some clangers dropping at the moment (Not firing Webber, Firing Farke, Hiring Smith , Not firing Smith) but some parts of our fan base like the stupid banner morons from the weekend have their heads firmly rammed up a football Utopia that simply does not exist.

[horsefly 4,302]

3 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

After all look at Ashley, he didn’t try to sell Newcastle in the Championship, he made sure they got promoted back to the EPL and then he put the club publicly back up for sale, and we can see what happened there.

And look who Ashley is seeking to buy now. Let's not forget that Newcastle offered the opportunity of a club with a big history and a big fan base; perfect for a murdering, human rights abusing despot to sports-wash his regime. 

[hogesar 9,677]

4 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I’m not sure that holds true hoggie, hear me out. Yes, for normal businesses it holds true that the best time to buy in (or buy out) is when their stock is low, but hat I think this misses is that the earning power of a football club is infinitely higher in the Premier League compared to League One. A normal business has a flat market, revenues and profits are driven by volume but the market doesn’t change if they’re having a good year vs. A bad year.

I’d argue, strongly, that our chances of attracting new owners is vastly higher upon promotion to the EPL when we then need to survive it, granted something we fail to do often enough, but at least we have the EPL money coming in straight away. Compare that to buying us at League One, where we had financial issues and needed to get promoted twice over 2 seasons and near 100 games of football (where anything can happen). I think someone investing in a football club would find an EPL club a much more attractive proposition. After all look at Ashley, he didn’t try to sell Newcastle in the Championship, he made sure they got promoted back to the EPL and then he put the club publicly back up for sale, and we can see what happened there.

I understand your argument and I think historically you might well have a point.

The problem is in current Premier League terms a club our size doesn't generally make money. We can only go by those who have managed to stay up for a few seasons and the closest resemblance is Brighton (with an owner of whom I think is fantastic, and if we had a Norwich equivalent i'd be more than happy with) - despite the bigger ground than us, and regular Premier League football, the cost of maintaining a Premier League squad and club is too expensive - hence Tony Bloom is owed circa £300 million pounds.

Newcastle slightly different as I don't think they have any intention of making real money out of the club but they are significantly bigger than us as a club and do offer a worldwide brand so to speak. And there is a possibility I guess that someone may want to pump big money into us without the expectation of getting it back. Again, if someone like that exists they'd be worth at least listening to.

7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

If you want a football club then why take on the hassle of trying to get past Delia an Michael when they make it clear they don't want to sell?

If a millionaire, or a billionaire wants something, the idea of Delia Smith standing there and stopping them is hilariously naive. The 'hassle' would be nothing more than getting one of your likely 100's of staff in one of your multi-million companies to place a call to the EDP, for crying out loud. It's not a hassle at all.

[horsefly 4,302]

6 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

And more takeovers (of football clubs) begin with an owner making it known that the club is for sale and actively seeking a buyer rather than making it incredicbly difficult for anyone to ever come in. If you want a football club then why take on the hassle of trying to get past Delia an Michael when they make it clear they don't want to sell?

Put the club on the market - genuinely see what is out there. 

As to your other post re some sort of "radical re-haul of our business structure" there is a lot of smoke and mirrors in terms of what goes on. We got financially stretched and we had to sell a very good player (too cheap in my book) in order to plug the gap and get us back on a firm footing again. That is hardly rocket science or unusual for a football club who have been relegated. indeed we did it again last time we were relegated only this time it was to fund purchases rather than plug debts. We have no "radical business structure"  and the entire model is nothing more than something born out of necessity/the desire for our owners to retain ownership whilst putting in no money. Its held up as some kind of groundbreaking approach but it really isn't although I admit that in football living according to your means is not as widespeard as in other industries.  

The point remains the same, and it seems none of the "Delia out" mob want to admit it; absolutely NOTHING prevents a billionaire making their interest in the club public knowledge.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

The point remains the same, and it seems none of the "Delia out" mob want to admit it; absolutely NOTHING prevents a billionaire making their interest in the club public knowledge.

And also, even if Delia is totally averse to selling the club, the more collective 'noise' that fan groups make about welcoming fresh investment/ownership, the more likely this is to happen. If enough people want it that badly, they will get organised properly and make a cogent case, rather than just having a dozen fans with a bedsheet effing and jeffing at Webber.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Feedthewolf

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I understand your argument and I think historically you might well have a point.

The problem is in current Premier League terms a club our size doesn't generally make money. We can only go by those who have managed to stay up for a few seasons and the closest resemblance is Brighton (with an owner of whom I think is fantastic, and if we had a Norwich equivalent i'd be more than happy with) - despite the bigger ground than us, and regular Premier League football, the cost of maintaining a Premier League squad and club is too expensive - hence Tony Bloom is owed circa £300 million pounds.

Newcastle slightly different as I don't think they have any intention of making real money out of the club but they are significantly bigger than us as a club and do offer a worldwide brand so to speak. And there is a possibility I guess that someone may want to pump big money into us without the expectation of getting it back. Again, if someone like that exists they'd be worth at least listening to.

If a millionaire, or a billionaire wants something, the idea of Delia Smith standing there and stopping them is hilariously naive. The 'hassle' would be nothing more than getting one of your likely 100's of staff in one of your multi-million companies to place a call to the EDP, for crying out loud. It's not a hassle at all.

That’s a fair response Hoggie, but club’s weren’t just spawned into being with history, massive fan bases and success, they grew/earned/developed them. If we want to do the same, if we want more success, a bigger ground etc then we need investment from somewhere, Delia just doesn’t have that kind of financial firepower. Unfortunately the last decade or so have been missed opportunities one after another to take the club forwards in that manner, regardless of results on the pitch. The development of Colbert etc is brilliant but it doesn’t bring the sort of prestige that attracts investment, as evidenced by the fact that they had to ask supporters to help pay for it via the bond scheme.

It’s easier to say “Newcastle are a bigger club”, Delia’s been in charge for 25 years, who’s to say that wouldn’t have been us had we had access to more finances. Under her stewardship we’ve gone from top 3 in the EPL to League One, to our current situation, the common theme through everything is that we’ve never had enough money to take advantage of our opportunities and we’re always having to make choices that we don’t want to make.

[Jim Smith 2,322]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I understand your argument and I think historically you might well have a point.

The problem is in current Premier League terms a club our size doesn't generally make money. We can only go by those who have managed to stay up for a few seasons and the closest resemblance is Brighton (with an owner of whom I think is fantastic, and if we had a Norwich equivalent i'd be more than happy with) - despite the bigger ground than us, and regular Premier League football, the cost of maintaining a Premier League squad and club is too expensive - hence Tony Bloom is owed circa £300 million pounds.

Newcastle slightly different as I don't think they have any intention of making real money out of the club but they are significantly bigger than us as a club and do offer a worldwide brand so to speak. And there is a possibility I guess that someone may want to pump big money into us without the expectation of getting it back. Again, if someone like that exists they'd be worth at least listening to.

If a millionaire, or a billionaire wants something, the idea of Delia Smith standing there and stopping them is hilariously naive. The 'hassle' would be nothing more than getting one of your likely 100's of staff in one of your multi-million companies to place a call to the EDP, for crying out loud. It's not a hassle at all.

Sorry but this is simply not true and ignores my central point which is that if they are not a Norwich fan, said billionaire is not going to be sufficiently desperate to do that when they can go and by Derby or Villa or any one of the half a dozen clubs who are genuinely receptive to approaches at the relevant time. They are going to think "i'm wasting my time here" if they are met with unresponsive majority shareholders who make it clear they won't sell. 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

10 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

And more takeovers (of football clubs) begin with an owner making it known that the club is for sale and actively seeking a buyer rather than making it incredibly difficult for anyone to ever come in. If you want a football club then why take on the hassle of trying to get past Delia an Michael when they make it clear they don't want to sell?

Put the club on the market - genuinely see what is out there. 

 

Probably more takeovers begin with the current owner having to sell because they have got the club into so much financial trouble, but let's leave that aside...🤓

Jim, what is the point of S&J putting the club on the market if they still have no intention of selling? That would be a waste of everybody's time. As it happens their most recent statements have all indicated a willingness to sell, but you never acknowledge that.

And you overstate the problems a hostile takeover would face. It would not be incredibly difficult. Harder than a takeover S&J agreed to, but still feasible. And now you have your champion in the media to publicise the drive to oust S&J - Gary Gowers with his mouthpiece on MyFootballWriter.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i can not believe some fans want the fans who want Delia out to find a buyer !!

We are football fans that are unhappy with the way the club is run not Brokers for a multi million pound club ! 

Put it up for sale and see who comes forward 

 

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,322]

7 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

And also, even if Delia is totally averse to selling the club, the more collective 'noise' that fan groups make about welcoming fresh investment/ownership, the more likely this is to happen. If enough people want it that badly, they will get organised properly and make a cogent case, rather than just having a dozen fans with a bedsheet effing and jeffing at Webber.

The problem is and always has been that a large chunk of our fanbase either don't like to kick up a fuss or more to the point do not like attacking Delia, in part because she is a woman but also obviously because there rightly has been some affection for the way they helped the club back at the outset of their ownership. 

If the club was already in Tom's hands then in my opinion there would have been mutinous scenes at Carrow Road already and major campaigns underway. 

[Jim Smith 2,322]

Just now, PurpleCanary said:

Probably more takeovers begin with the current owner having to sell because they have got the club into so much financial trouble, but let's leave that aside...🤓

Jim, what is the point of S&J putting the club on the market if they still have no intention of selling? That would be a waste of everybody's time. As it happens their most recent statements have all indicated a willingness to sell, but you never acknowledge that.

And you overstate the problems a hostile takeover would face. It would not be incredibly difficult. Harder than a takeover S&J agreed to, but still feasible. And now you have your champion in the media to publicise the drive to oust S&J - Gary Gowers with his mouthpiece on MyFootballWriter.

Well there is a quandry Purple. On the flipside, if they are willing to sell then why not go to the market and see who is out there?

They know full well that they can make such statments and the likelihood is that nothing will ever come of it, thats if you believe them in the first place. As you know, I don't. I believe the version of Delia we got in the infamous Times interview. 

I'm not saying a hostile takeover is impossible but the point is that unless said person is a die hard Norwich fan who specifically wants Norwich only they are not going to bother if there are other similarly sized (albeit perhaps performing worse) clubs available at the same time. 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

7 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

That’s a fair response Hoggie, but club’s weren’t just spawned into being with history, massive fan bases and success, they grew/earned/developed them. If we want to do the same, if we want more success, a bigger ground etc then we need investment from somewhere, Delia just doesn’t have that kind of financial firepower. Unfortunately the last decade or so have been missed opportunities one after another to take the club forwards in that manner, regardless of results on the pitch. The development of Colbert etc is brilliant but it doesn’t bring the sort of prestige that attracts investment, as evidenced by the fact that they had to ask supporters to help pay for it via the bond scheme.

It’s easier to say “Newcastle are a bigger club”, Delia’s been in charge for 25 years, who’s to say that wouldn’t have been us had we had access to more finances. Under her stewardship we’ve gone from top 3 in the EPL to League One, to our current situation, the common theme through everything is that we’ve never had enough money to take advantage of our opportunities and we’re always having to make choices that we don’t want to make.

Hardly. The club was stuck in the second tier having gone through a financial crisis that necessitated a fire sale of players.