Webber

[tea total 79]

I keep on reading the Webber bashing on here but it would have been very interesting to we would be now without him! Would we still be in the Championship after seeing the five year plan fail? There are no certainties with any new player regardless of cost. You can guarantee that Webber did his research on the players within the price range. Some haven't worked out but you can't say it wasn't for the want of trying. The club are in a better position now than when Webber came in...and we could've been in a lot worse! If some fans are prepared to gamble the soul of NCFC to someone with money then great...but you don't speak for all of us! DF should have stayed because I think he would have come good. Money has ruined the game and unless we have a billionaire fan who wants nothing g back in return then, although we need to see progress (whatever you define as progress) just be thankful for what we have! It really could, and can, be a lot worse. As for the national media and pundits...Their wages come from promoting the Premiership so don't expect nothing back from them. It's always going to be about the same clubs all the time. That is how business works...you focus on your best products. Football is a business.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

This really isn’t Webbers fault. We had to replace our best player and Skipp from the get go. We needed more money and were never going to get it. So he did the best he could in my eyes.

[jaberry2 550]

Webber has vastly increased the stability / infrastructure of our football club, I dont think that has ever been in question. However what is under scrutiny is his recruitment, where he needs to shoulder considerable blame as its been sub standard for a long time now.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

1 hour ago, tea total said:

I keep on reading the Webber bashing on here but it would have been very interesting to we would be now without him! Would we still be in the Championship after seeing the five year plan fail? There are no certainties with any new player regardless of cost. You can guarantee that Webber did his research on the players within the price range. Some haven't worked out but you can't say it wasn't for the want of trying. The club are in a better position now than when Webber came in...and we could've been in a lot worse! If some fans are prepared to gamble the soul of NCFC to someone with money then great...but you don't speak for all of us! DF should have stayed because I think he would have come good. Money has ruined the game and unless we have a billionaire fan who wants nothing g back in return then, although we need to see progress (whatever you define as progress) just be thankful for what we have! It really could, and can, be a lot worse. As for the national media and pundits...Their wages come from promoting the Premiership so don't expect nothing back from them. It's always going to be about the same clubs all the time. That is how business works...you focus on your best products. Football is a business.

Raise the white flag, we are lucky just to exist.... Football is 100% a business and a business with no cash flow outside of selling it's best assets is doomed to failure.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

PS I suggest a sporting director needs to be totally focused on his job around a transfer window and not half way up a mountain. 

[jaberry2 550]

I think our transfer strategy of always signing previously crocked players / or ones struggling to regain form was always going to be risky. It would be ok if it were the odd one, but seems like too much focus was spent looking at the potential of players to regain confidence / fitness etc from the off was a big ask from the outset.

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

11 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

PS I suggest a sporting director needs to be totally focused on his job around a transfer window and not half way up a mountain. 

He was focussed enough to know that nothing was going to happen. So he could've stayed in his office knowing nothing was going to happen or he could've been half way up a mountain knowing nothing was going to happen. The outcome was always going to be that nothing was going to happen.

[hogesar 9,690]

From a business point of view, I don't think Webbers transfers were that bad. By that, I mean the only paid transfer looking like a big chunk of money completely wasted right now is Tzolis - and he's young enough to pull that back. Even Sargent is only 21 and a full USA international, whilst they were big fee's for us they aren't in the scheme of football.

In terms of the signings we needed for survival then it looks like he's got it pretty wrong. I'm not sure he should take too much flak for the first Prem relegation as it was a conscious effort not to spend anything. This time round was different.

However, in the big picture of football? He'll still have a very good reputation, having improved our academy and facilities to beyond recognition he'll also be leaving something here when he does depart, which is different from recent CEO's / Sporting Directors we've had.

I also think for the money we spent he was still having to perform a minor miracle to make us competitive. Look at the hundreds of million's that's gone into that Everton squad over recent years and they've only gained a few points more than us.

[tea total 79]

32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

From a business point of view, I don't think Webbers transfers were that bad. By that, I mean the only paid transfer looking like a big chunk of money completely wasted right now is Tzolis - and he's young enough to pull that back. Even Sargent is only 21 and a full USA international, whilst they were big fee's for us they aren't in the scheme of football.

In terms of the signings we needed for survival then it looks like he's got it pretty wrong. I'm not sure he should take too much flak for the first Prem relegation as it was a conscious effort not to spend anything. This time round was different.

However, in the big picture of football? He'll still have a very good reputation, having improved our academy and facilities to beyond recognition he'll also be leaving something here when he does depart, which is different from recent CEO's / Sporting Directors we've had.

I also think for the money we spent he was still having to perform a minor miracle to make us competitive. Look at the hundreds of million's that's gone into that Everton squad over recent years and they've only gained a few points more than us.

It was quality or quantity unfortunately. I think we'd have all said quantity. Hindsight is a good thing.

[tea total 79]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Raise the white flag, we are lucky just to exist.... Football is 100% a business and a business with no cash flow outside of selling it's best assets is doomed to failure.

Nothing to do with waving the white flag! It's about being realistic and not living beyond our means. Ambition yes but realism aswell. 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

3 minutes ago, tea total said:

It was quality or quantity unfortunately. I think we'd have all said quantity. Hindsight is a good thing.

No.  He said himself it had to be quality over quantity this season - and it surely had to be - .  but it definitely wasn’t in the end.   

[tea total 79]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

No.  He said himself it had to be quality over quantity this season - and it surely had to be - .  but it definitely wasn’t in the end.   

I agree but you're not going to get guaranteed Premiership quality for the sort of money that we spent. As I've said before it has been very disappointing but it's not surprising that the players aren't up to speed yet as it would always be a calculated gamble. Not being argumentative just being realistic maybe 😐

[Kingston Yellow 220]

I fail to understand how anyone can possibly think to jump to Webber’s defence this season. It’s been a complete failure. As was 2019 / 20. We’ve been complete humiliated. Again.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

One aspect I'd like to highlight that possibly comes to Webbers defense this season is that while he was working to a budget he was also working to find a certain type of player that would fit Farke's system and that makes his job doubly difficult.

Farke is a top coach, but his patient, slow possesion based style absolutely does not work for a low quality team in the modern PL, there's a very good reason why no other bottom half or even bottom 14 or so teams play that way, you need exceptional quality to make it work. Webber has tried in the past to compliment Farke's usual profile of player with some different options but Farke has usually refused to play them or given them very few chances, the only one he seemed to confess to being wrong about was Alex Tettey, but I got the sense he was looking to replace him at any point he could, so Webber had to not only find players good enough on our budget but he had to find players that the manager would actually play.

So you end up again with a lot of weaker, more technically minded players who like to play the game at their pace and on the deck in a league where pace and power rules and most goals are scored on the counter and from set pieces if you fully back the coach or you sign players he wont play. We ended up trying to do a bit of both and lost our identity, so we have players not technically proficent enough to play Farke's flawed system and players not physically capable enough to play in an appropriate style or the one that Smith is trying.  But what was Webber to do really? You either sack the coach who has just brought a second promotion in two years for a manager who plays faster football or you sign a bunch of players who he wouldn't pick. 

Maybe, just maybe it'll be different if we get promoted under Smith because Webber could target a different profile of player. I'm not blaming Farke here, but you have to admit it's a nigh on impossible task trying to find him PL quality players who can play his possession based game on our budget. Smith likes a faster, more direct high pressing game and it's much easier to find players within our budget who can play that way, we'd have had to assemble a squad at or near the quality of Brighton's or Wolves in one window to makes Farke's system work and that is just never going to happen under this model. 

[Jim Smith 2,322]

2 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

One aspect I'd like to highlight that possibly comes to Webbers defense this season is that while he was working to a budget he was also working to find a certain type of player that would fit Farke's system and that makes his job doubly difficult.

Farke is a top coach, but his patient, slow possesion based style absolutely does not work for a low quality team in the modern PL, there's a very good reason why no other bottom half or even bottom 14 or so teams play that way, you need exceptional quality to make it work. Webber has tried in the past to compliment Farke's usual profile of player with some different options but Farke has usually refused to play them or given them very few chances, the only one he seemed to confess to being wrong about was Alex Tettey, but I got the sense he was looking to replace him at any point he could, so Webber had to not only find players good enough on our budget but he had to find players that the manager would actually play.

So you end up again with a lot of weaker, more technically minded players who like to play the game at their pace and on the deck in a league where pace and power rules and most goals are scored on the counter and from set pieces if you fully back the coach or you sign players he wont play. We ended up trying to do a bit of both and lost our identity, so we have players not technically proficent enough to play Farke's flawed system and players not physically capable enough to play in an appropriate style or the one that Smith is trying.  But what was Webber to do really? You either sack the coach who has just brought a second promotion in two years for a manager who plays faster football or you sign a bunch of players who he wouldn't pick. 

Maybe, just maybe it'll be different if we get promoted under Smith because Webber could target a different profile of player. I'm not blaming Farke here, but you have to admit it's a nigh on impossible task trying to find him PL quality players who can play his possession based game on our budget. Smith likes a faster, more direct high pressing game and it's much easier to find players within our budget who can play that way, we'd have had to assemble a squad at or near the quality of Brighton's or Wolves in one window to makes Farke's system work and that is just never going to happen under this model. 

Why did he sign a load of players that didn’t fit Farke’s system then? 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

He was focussed enough to know that nothing was going to happen. So he could've stayed in his office knowing nothing was going to happen or he could've been half way up a mountain knowing nothing was going to happen. The outcome was always going to be that nothing was going to happen.

Surely he should have been looking at all options to strengthen? I guess wi-fi is improved on Mount Everest these days...

[Mello Yello 2,296]

7 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Surely he should have been looking at all options to strengthen? I guess wi-fi is improved on Mount Everest these days...

Webbo was between a rock and a far place......

[repman 635]

In my view, we had a very strong recruitment method in the first few years under Webber. This started to change after our previous PL season, with a greater eye on athleticism, being that it was diagnosed by those inside the club that we were not physical enough to compete. There was lots of talk by the local journos how the club would be using running and physical date in order to make sure we would be prepared this time around. Ultimately, a lot of these signings do not have the technical ability to play at this level, and their athletic ability can't mask that. Williams, Normann and Sargent are all examples of this. Rashica is probably the best example, as the Buendia replacement, it would have been expected that he could fill the hole but through different means. Buendia was an on-ball creator whereas Rashica looks best running in behind or at defenders. It's also possible that the club believed in Farke's coaching in order to bring these players up to standard, something he had certainly done with younger players during his time here. 

The last point I would like to make is that when Webber first arrived, we quickly became a smart club. At the time, this was in a league full of not so smart clubs, you only need to look at Ipswich in 18/19 for proof of that. Since then nearly every club in the top divisions have got smarter, especially so in the prem. With that advantage we once had gone, our lack of resources in comparison to others becomes the real dividing line.

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

25 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Surely he should have been looking at all options to strengthen? I guess wi-fi is improved on Mount Everest these days...

Nothing was going to happen, guess what, nothing happened. He knew nothing was going to happen, he's the one person who was likely to know that nothing was going to happen so when nothing happened he wasn't at all surprised that nothing happened.

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Nothing was going to happen, guess what, nothing happened. He knew nothing was going to happen, he's the one person who was likely to know that nothing was going to happen so when nothing happened he wasn't at all surprised that nothing happened.

 

What brand of crystal ball does he use... Unacceptable to be on holiday in a transfer window..

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

What brand of crystal ball does he use... Unacceptable to be on holiday in a transfer window..

He doesn't need a crystal ball as he's the person who would know if anything was likely to happen. 

Guess what, nothing happened. He knew nothing was going to happen, he's the one person who was likely to know that nothing was going to happen so when nothing happened he wasn't at all surprised that nothing happened. 

It's not that difficult to accept.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Why did he sign a load of players that didn’t fit Farke’s system then? 

Trying to go for the middleground like I said, sorry for the rambling It's quite easy to miss things in my posts. But in trying to fit his system we also ended up with players like Gilmour and a primarily ball playing CB in Kabak for example. 

My whole point was under a coach who plays a style of football thats unsuited to PL survival he's damned if he does or damned if he doesn't and is even more damned if he tries to skate between the two like he did. All other PL teams have a clear philosophy one way or the other and play to their strengths, we signed some players suited to Farke's system who just aren't good enough to make his style work and some players who aren't suited to his system but are not physically good enough to make up for it. 

With hindsight the only way around this would have been to sack Farke before the season started which would have been ridiculous and everyone including me would have been livid at the time. So yeah Webber has made mistakes but he had a really tough job. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Christoph Stiepermann

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

He doesn't need a crystal ball as he's the person who would know if anything was likely to happen. 

Guess what, nothing happened. He knew nothing was going to happen, he's the one person who was likely to know that nothing was going to happen so when nothing happened he wasn't at all surprised that nothing happened. 

It's not that difficult to accept.

Cantwell was on the market for one... He could not have been 100% certain that no one was going to offer a player exchange etc... In my opinion it's unacceptable. You have another view.

[yellowrider120 765]

I'm far from convinced Webber will be here come season start in very early August. He has a number of 'ticks' in his CV with us such as culling expensive deadwood in summer of 2017, rebuilding Colney and (of course) two fabulous promotions. Set against that are two very major 'crosses' with the totally uncompetitive (to date) attempts to stay up. IF (still a big 'If' judging by the laid back, gentrified, old boys 'country club' atmosphere which is FCR) the natives do 'turn' in the few remaining home games then has Webber really got the enthusiasm and commitment to 'go again' when he must know that there are no longer any crown jewels left to sell for his much hyped '£30M' + bracket. Those ships have well and truly sailed and any 'transfer budget' in the next few months will be even more restricted than normal. As many on here now speculate, our next stay in the Championship is very unlikely to be the brief, automatic 'bounce back' type. Very soon (a gleaming Colney apart) Webber could well be worse off when he looks at his empire compared to what he had five years ago. Would never surprise me if he just jacked it all in and cleared off.    

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

Good at transfers ain’t he? 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Midlands Yellow

[Segura 84]

2 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

One aspect I'd like to highlight that possibly comes to Webbers defense this season is that while he was working to a budget he was also working to find a certain type of player that would fit Farke's system and that makes his job doubly difficult.

Farke is a top coach, but his patient, slow possesion based style absolutely does not work for a low quality team in the modern PL, there's a very good reason why no other bottom half or even bottom 14 or so teams play that way, you need exceptional quality to make it work. Webber has tried in the past to compliment Farke's usual profile of player with some different options but Farke has usually refused to play them or given them very few chances, the only one he seemed to confess to being wrong about was Alex Tettey, but I got the sense he was looking to replace him at any point he could, so Webber had to not only find players good enough on our budget but he had to find players that the manager would actually play.

So you end up again with a lot of weaker, more technically minded players who like to play the game at their pace and on the deck in a league where pace and power rules and most goals are scored on the counter and from set pieces if you fully back the coach or you sign players he wont play. We ended up trying to do a bit of both and lost our identity, so we have players not technically proficent enough to play Farke's flawed system and players not physically capable enough to play in an appropriate style or the one that Smith is trying.  But what was Webber to do really? You either sack the coach who has just brought a second promotion in two years for a manager who plays faster football or you sign a bunch of players who he wouldn't pick. 

Maybe, just maybe it'll be different if we get promoted under Smith because Webber could target a different profile of player. I'm not blaming Farke here, but you have to admit it's a nigh on impossible task trying to find him PL quality players who can play his possession based game on our budget. Smith likes a faster, more direct high pressing game and it's much easier to find players within our budget who can play that way, we'd have had to assemble a squad at or near the quality of Brighton's or Wolves in one window to makes Farke's system work and that is just never going to happen under this model. 

This is a very good post, thanks for sharing.

I often hear the arguments about not signing a DMC in the summer, but very few supporters can offer a suggestion of a suitable player.

May be as you say, there simply wasn't anyone who could play Farke's system and improve our team available within budget.

Whatever the answer, I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall during Farke and Webber's summer transfer discussions.

[Big O 225]

When we have had to put up with two very disappointing relegations it is only natural that as a fan base we are frustrated and angry, in that current context Webber is always going to cop some criticism.

i think though, if you were to look at it holistically over his tenure then you would have to say the club is in a much stronger overall position than what he inherited. He does clearly need to reinvigorate the recruitment team as this year has not been anywhere near good enough. 

I would however be surprised if the team isn’t competitive next year under an experienced manager like smith with a core of very good championship players. The big difference this time will be no Emi so Webber/Smith will have to work out who wants to be here and who they need to ship out. I can imagine Aarons/Cantwell will go this summer to free up some cash but we badly need a new centre midfield and a creative player. No easy task. 

[paddycanary 539]

10 minutes ago, Segura said:

This is a very good post, thanks for sharing.

I often hear the arguments about not signing a DMC in the summer, but very few supporters can offer a suggestion of a suitable player.

May be as you say, there simply wasn't anyone who could play Farke's system and improve our team available within budget.

Whatever the answer, I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall during Farke and Webber's summer transfer discussions.

One who could Run preferably.

[Jim Smith 2,322]

Time to re-boot the "where is Webber" campaign. Radio Norfolk said on Saturday that they have been asking him to come on for an interview but have not had any response.

The answer this week would appear to be Snowdonia. In fact if you want to find out any info about how his traning for climbing Everest is going these days then that does not appear a problem and he';s happy to communicate that via instagram or other social media. Mind you wasn't so keen to let on his whereabouts during the January transfer window was he. Knew that looked a bit iffy.

Ask him to actually speak to the fans of the club who employ him about our failure this season and he remains notable by his absence. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,237]

7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Time to re-boot the "where is Webber" campaign. Radio Norfolk said on Saturday that they have been asking him to come on for an interview but have not had any response.

The answer this week would appear to be Snowdonia. In fact if you want to find out any info about how his traning for climbing Everest is going these days then that does not appear a problem and he';s happy to communicate that via instagram or other social media. Mind you wasn't so keen to let on his whereabouts during the January transfer window was he. Knew that looked a bit iffy.

Ask him to actually speak to the fans of the club who employ him about our failure this season and he remains notable by his absence. 

I don't understand this clamour for him to say something. What do you want him to say? We're cr@p? The players aren't good enough? 

I don't know about you, but I don't need anyone to reaffirm that, I watch it with my own eyes.

In fact, anything he DID say would only fan the flames and make people more angry. Utterly pointless.