It's all your fault

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

I think if it proves impossible to improve on our current position (competitive in the 2nd tier of English football, embarrassed in the top flight) the owners will have to decide if that is enough for them and the club? Whilst it has been fun getting promoted twice, I think the downside has been just as demoralizing. If that continued can only see a negative impact on our future support and overall feeling around the club.

Maybe it is enough for the current owners and those that think they are the best we can hope for. For the others, I guess they will vote with their pockets...

[Midlands Yellow 4,026]

28 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Exactly, we're no an attractive proposition but it's not impossible. Yet those who complain on here daily, taking up valuable minutes, hours, days of their lives in doing so, aren't interested in doing anything about it.

Something tells me that deep down, they all know it likely doesn't get any better than this!

Says the man who lives on here 24/7. 

[hogesar 9,717]

34 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So far Jim, Parma and others have provided a good discussion on the details of ownership shares etc. Yet you feel the need to have a go and make it personal again... Give it a rest and save your valuable minutes, hours, days in doing so. 

Yeah, and i'm not referring to any of them in my post.

[hogesar 9,717]

31 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Says the man who lives on here 24/7. 

Sometimes genius knows no bounds when someone tries to criticise someone else for being on something that same person is on to be able to respond, and in record breaking time too. 😂😂

Edited January 10, 2022 by hogesar

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah, and i'm not referring to any of them in my post.

BUT you felt the need to dig out people again rather than contribute to the discuss... 

[hogesar 9,717]

Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

BUT you felt the need to dig out people again rather than contribute to the discuss... 

No, I was simply agreeing and re-affirming the point Purple made so eloquently.

The excuse from several of the usual 'candidates' on here was that it was pointless them doing anything because they couldn't make a difference. Purple, Parma, Big Fish and others have given plenty of examples where that's not the case. I was pointing out that whilst it might be difficult it's certainly not impossible and that excuse doesn't wash - if you're that unhappy about the situation do something about it - they can start by helping out the 12 lads holding up an old duvet yesterday.

[GMF 756]

7 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I remain intrigued by those 1 million unallocated shares and how they might offer a solution here, given that any money raised form them would presumably go directly into the club.

I would like to see a further campaign to explore interest in someone acquiring those shares, which would presumably have to be sanctioned by the board thus enabling a degree of "quality control" in terms of any purchaser?

The Board has the option to issue up to 1,000,000 new shares without further reference to existing shareholders. This option was passed as a resolution at the AGM back in 2010 and valid for a five year period. It was renewed again in both 2015 and 2020. It’s an option at the Board’s discretion.

There is no set price for these shares, but it was widely presumed that it would be £100 a share, this being the then quoted allocation price for those interested in acquiring new shares at that time. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by GMF
Deleted one word so it makes sense

[Jim Smith 2,339]

2 minutes ago, GMF said:

The Board has the option to issue up to 1,000,000 new shares without further reference to existing shareholders. This option was passed as a resolution at the AGM back in 2010 for and valid for a five year period. It was renewed again in both 2015 and 2020. It’s an option at the Board’s discretion.

There is no set price for these shares, but it was widely presumed that it would be £100 a share, this being the then quoted allocation price for those interested in acquiring new shares at that time. 

This is what i mean - apologies I thought they had been issued but you are right its a resolution giving them the ability to issue the extra shares. 

[nutty nigel 7,565]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I think if it proves impossible to improve on our current position (competitive in the 2nd tier of English football, embarrassed in the top flight) the owners will have to decide if that is enough for them and the club? Whilst it has been fun getting promoted twice, I think the downside has been just as demoralizing. If that continued can only see a negative impact on our future support and overall feeling around the club.

Maybe it is enough for the current owners and those that think they are the best we can hope for. For the others, I guess they will vote with their pockets...

Kenny, I doubt you'll find anyone who thinks the current majority shareholders are the best we could hope for. So you are just making something up in order to argue against.

What would you like to see happen with the current ownership?

Edited January 10, 2022 by nutty nigel

[king canary 7,653]

I'd suggest the reason there isn't any formalised 'Delia out' type movement rests on a couple of things.

1- those who feel strongly about it are in the minority

2- there is a large amount of well earned respect and affection for our majority shareholders, leading many who might think the club needs a change unwilling to actually 'turn' on the owners so to speak. I've noticed this come up a fair bit on twitter in response to the group of fans pictured on Sunday. Even if there is a not insignificant portion of the fanbase who might think new owners are needed (and I have no idea how big this is) I'd wager the number with an appetite for a prolonged campaign to make things uncomfortable and force them to sell is very small.

[Indy 3,310]

17 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'd suggest the reason there isn't any formalised 'Delia out' type movement rests on a couple of things.

1- those who feel strongly about it are in the minority

2- there is a large amount of well earned respect and affection for our majority shareholders, leading many who might think the club needs a change unwilling to actually 'turn' on the owners so to speak. I've noticed this come up a fair bit on twitter in response to the group of fans pictured on Sunday. Even if there is a not insignificant portion of the fanbase who might think new owners are needed (and I have no idea how big this is) I'd wager the number with an appetite for a prolonged campaign to make things uncomfortable and force them to sell is very small.

And let’s be totally honest, why would many bother with it? It’s football, it’s our club and as highlighted by Purple even to try would take so much effort life’s too short, again, it’s only football! Just be happy we are higher than some and lower than others.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Indy

[hogesar 9,717]

29 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'd suggest the reason there isn't any formalised 'Delia out' type movement rests on a couple of things.

1- those who feel strongly about it are in the minority

2- there is a large amount of well earned respect and affection for our majority shareholders, leading many who might think the club needs a change unwilling to actually 'turn' on the owners so to speak. I've noticed this come up a fair bit on twitter in response to the group of fans pictured on Sunday. Even if there is a not insignificant portion of the fanbase who might think new owners are needed (and I have no idea how big this is) I'd wager the number with an appetite for a prolonged campaign to make things uncomfortable and force them to sell is very small.

That's fair.

I also think its arguable that, and it could be partially because of point 2 you've made, that there needs to be 'something' for them to get behind. At the moment it's a "sell up Delia" without any knowledge of who or where to.

It's almost like the club needs someone to publicly show some sort of interest in buying / investing into the club - something for those who want change, or at least are open to change, to cling on to. Without that it's really hard to come up with an effective strategy.

Partially why I was banned from the Delia Out FB group (amongst other things, of course 🙂) was I was trying to attain their goal. It was for Delia to "get out of our club" but there was no more substance than that. 

[Big Vince 318]

19 minutes ago, Indy said:

And let’s be totally honest, why would many bother with it? It’s football, it’s our club and as highlighted by Purple even to try would take so much effort life’s too short, again, it’s only football! Just be happy we are higher than some and lower than others.

But that is the apathy approach.

Surely Mr Chase proved that the club can be a lot higher in the pecking order than it is now and that ousting the current incumbents would be the RIGHT thing to do regardless of how many people are willing to support it.

I disagree strongly that "it is only football". What was that quote from Bill Shankly? Football was not a matter of life and death - it was more important than that.

[Indy 3,310]

7 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

But that is the apathy approach.

Surely Mr Chase proved that the club can be a lot higher in the pecking order than it is now and that ousting the current incumbents would be the RIGHT thing to do regardless of how many people are willing to support it.

I disagree strongly that "it is only football". What was that quote from Bill Shankly? Football was not a matter of life and death - it was more important than that.

Not apathy BV, it’s who we are, I don’t know what the current majority share holders are doing, why at their age they haven’t stepped aside but football has moved on from the Chase days, even then there were some who still argued the case for Chase!

Football in the top division is for the gamblers and rich, it’s not for normal fans, you want to see real football head to league one, I’ve had the pleasure to see a lot of Oxford games in the past three seasons and it’s a great learning curve, they are in transition with rich backers coming into the ownership, just been given a new plot of land to build their new ground on and after years of suffering post Kassam even a season of non league they are now seeing the seeds of some bright future. They have the right to complain after the battle they have had.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Indy

[corbs 147]

I see the thought Police are out again. Those of us who are basically supportive towards the current incumbents are ‘institutionalised’ (the latest terminology to de-legitimise views which one does not agree with). There exists a parochial strain on the forum, reflected by use of such terms such ‘happy clappers’, ‘day trippers’; which tries to undermine those who are not accepted as ‘one of us’. They are the real fans, we are distrusted ‘outsiders’. Curiously my working life has been largely trying to offset the damage done by Total Institutions (E. Goffman). 

[Midlands Yellow 4,026]

1 minute ago, corbs said:

I see the thought Police are out again. Those of us who are basically supportive towards the current incumbents are ‘institutionalised’ (the latest terminology to de-legitimise views which one does not agree with). There exists a parochial strain on the forum, reflected by use of such terms such ‘happy clappers’, ‘day trippers’; which tries to undermine those who are not accepted as ‘one of us’. They are the real fans, we are distrusted ‘outsiders’. Curiously my working life has been largely trying to offset the damage done by Total Institutions (E. Goffman). 

Micky or Delia posting here? 

[king canary 7,653]

5 minutes ago, corbs said:

I see the thought Police are out again. Those of us who are basically supportive towards the current incumbents are ‘institutionalised’ (the latest terminology to de-legitimise views which one does not agree with). There exists a parochial strain on the forum, reflected by use of such terms such ‘happy clappers’, ‘day trippers’; which tries to undermine those who are not accepted as ‘one of us’. They are the real fans, we are distrusted ‘outsiders’. Curiously my working life has been largely trying to offset the damage done by Total Institutions (E. Goffman). 

Hmm, I think you'd have to be taking a very one eyed view to suggest the 'pro-Smith and Jones' on here don't also exhibit all of those behaviours you've listed above.

Edited January 10, 2022 by king canary

[wcorkcanary 4,336]

4 hours ago, Big Vince said:

But that is the apathy approach.

Surely Mr Chase proved that the club can be a lot higher in the pecking order than it is now and that ousting the current incumbents would be the RIGHT thing to do regardless of how many people are willing to support it.

I disagree strongly that "it is only football". What was that quote from Bill Shankly? Football was not a matter of life and death - it was more important than that.

What Chase achieved is irrelevant  nowadays,  much has changed, except  of course BV being a  ****.

As for the Shsnkly quote, maybe for him , but not for  normal  people.  

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

11 hours ago, king canary said:

Hmm, I think you'd have to be taking a very one eyed view to suggest the 'pro-Smith and Jones' on here don't also exhibit all of those behaviours you've listed above.

There may be an element of truth in that, although certainly nowhere near an equivalence of vitriol. What is certainly not true is the now common complaint that all attempts to oust S&J have been shouted down by supposed Deliarites.

It isn't true because there have been no such attempts.in more than a decade. You cannot put the mockers on something that has never happened. On the contrary, what gets mocked is the 'I will whinge like mad but do sod all about it' attitude of such posters.

[king canary 7,653]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

There may be an element of truth in that, although certainly nowhere near an equivalence of vitriol.

Think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. The reaction to the small show of dissatisfaction on Sunday hasn't exactly been friendly disagreement- it has largely ranged from patronising (these people are two young to have an opinion!) to accusations of not being real fans to outright insults. 

I think you're being a bit one eyed to suggest there isn't much vitriol spewed at those who want a change.

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. The reaction to the small show of dissatisfaction on Sunday hasn't exactly been friendly disagreement- it has largely ranged from patronising (these people are two young to have an opinion!) to accusations of not being real fans to outright insults. 

I think you're being a bit one eyed to suggest there isn't much vitriol spewed at those who want a change.

I'm only dimly aware of this 'protest' but all I have seen here, if anything, is posters making the point that anti-Deliarites need to get serious and organised, and that whatever happened at Charlton was not at all that but just an earthbound version of the aborted plane stunt. I get the feeling you are talking about social media? It may be different there. I wouldn't know.

[king canary 7,653]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I'm only dimly aware of this 'protest' but all I have seen here, if anything, is posters making the point that anti-Deliarites need to get serious and organised, and that whatever happened at Charlton was not at all that but just an earthbound version of the aborted plane stunt. I get the feeling you are talking about social media? It may be different there. I wouldn't know.

The first couple of posts on the thread about it were 'absolute embarrassment' and 'look at the state of them' so you don't have to look too far.

Yes social media is also where I've seen a lot of this but it all counts. 

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

The first couple of posts on the thread about it were 'absolute embarrassment' and 'look at the state of them' so you don't have to look too far.

Yes social media is also where I've seen a lot of this but it all counts. 

Yes, the 'protesters' were made fun of, but that hardly equates to the vitriol, and I don't think that too harsh a word, directed on this forum at supposed Deliarites and at S&J themselves. If there is equivalent vitriol on social media that is another matter. Happy to leave it there.

[komakino 274]

While there is a lot of underlying dissatisfaction regarding Smith & Jones, it is very different from the 'Chase Out' era. 

Norwich City fans - and I'm generalising here - we're much more passionate about the top tier and were determined to do something about it. And they did, rightly so, whether it was Chase Out memorabilia or getting stuck in for the riots themselves. 

After a generation of Delia & Michael, there is still too many fans who will accept whatever they - or don't - do, which means as things currently stand, there is not enough groundswell of opinion for any significant protest, even if we were back in the Deliazone of the second tier. 

 

[nutty nigel 7,565]

So it's the fans fault....

Again!

[......and Smith must score. 1,355]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

I'm only dimly aware of this 'protest' but all I have seen here, if anything, is posters making the point that anti-Deliarites need to get serious and organised, and that whatever happened at Charlton was not at all that but just an earthbound version of the aborted plane stunt. I get the feeling you are talking about social media? It may be different there. I wouldn't know.

I thought this place was social media ?

[Jim Smith 2,339]

There is a large (although thankfully decreasing) section of our fan based who have (in my view) effectively been conditioned into believing "there is no one out there" and that the alternative to Delia and MWJ is some evil venture capitalist who will run our club into thhe ground. Or that the "model" is something oither than an approach born out of necessity in order to enable them to continue to own the club.

There has been a cult of personality around Delia & MWJ (and this notion that they somehow "saved the club" from going bust) that has I think shielded them from a lot of stick and criticism that owners of other clubs would have got had they presided over some of what has happened with our club. And for that reason many still can't really bring themselves to turn against them, unlike Chase who filled the cartoon villain role to perfection in his latter days. Its also changed our fan base which now includes a demographic who are in my view less likely to turn on Delia than the fanbase was to turn on Chase. 

I suspect it will be very different if the club ever gets into Tom's hands. He has zero credit or protection from the flak because of who he is. Quite the opposite in fact. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

There is a large (although thankfully decreasing) section of our fan based who have (in my view) effectively been conditioned into believing "there is no one out there" and that the alternative to Delia and MWJ is some evil venture capitalist who will run our club into thhe ground. Or that the "model" is something oither than an approach born out of necessity in order to enable them to continue to own the club.

There has been a cult of personality around Delia & MWJ (and this notion that they somehow "saved the club" from going bust) that has I think shielded them from a lot of stick and criticism that owners of other clubs would have got had they presided over some of what has happened with our club. And for that reason many still can't really bring themselves to turn against them, unlike Chase who filled the cartoon villain role to perfection in his latter days. Its also changed our fan base which now includes a demographic who are in my view less likely to turn on Delia than the fanbase was to turn on Chase. 

I suspect it will be very different if the club ever gets into Tom's hands. He has zero credit or protection from the flak because of who he is. Quite the opposite in fact. 

I should also say that it shouldn;t be necessary to "turn against" the current owners in order to push for change but unfortunately with our club things only ever seem to happen when hands are forced. 

[Mello Yello 2,298]

Blame?....

THE FANS OF COURSE!...

[essex canary 504]

Why should we accept 53% of the Club in Tom Smith's hands with no say for the 47%?

Delia said herself that the fans won't like it. They don't yet she persists with her Johnsonian style arrogance.