The "makeshift" side argument

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

Might have more validity if some of our so called fringe players like Sorenson and Placheta weren't actually our better performers out there, and that the so called big names such as Gibson, Cantwell and the golden boy were the ones who were attrocious

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I think the issue with it is if you look at the Man U game, for example, that midfield worked as a unit and seemed to know when to press or not.

if that area of the team changed, last minute (and possibly the CB pairing too) then that definitely would have disrupted things.

The one mistake I think Smith made tonight was not playing Gianoulis, even if in a more advanced role if necessary. He was great on Saturday and he gives us a left footed outlet down the left. Williams is probably a better defender but his need to cut back on his right foot slows us down at times and in the first half it was just too easy for them to press us. 

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I think the issue with it is if you look at the Man U game, for example, that midfield worked as a unit and seemed to know when to press or not.

if that area of the team changed, last minute (and possibly the CB pairing too) then that definitely would have disrupted things.

The one mistake I think Smith made tonight was not playing Gianoulis, even if in a more advanced role if necessary. He was great on Saturday and he gives us a left footed outlet down the left. Williams is probably a better defender but his need to cut back on his right foot slows us down at times and in the first half it was just too easy for them to press us. 

Agreed, not giving Giannoulis any game time tonight after a MOTM display Saturday was very poor management. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

12 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Might have more validity if some of our so called fringe players like Sorenson and Placheta weren't actually our better performers out there, and that the so called big names such as Gibson, Cantwell and the golden boy were the ones who were attrocious

5 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Agreed, not giving Giannoulis any game time tonight after a MOTM display Saturday was very poor management. 

These are two points that were going through my mind all the way home. 

I just don't understand what Giannoulis has to do to get a decent run in the team, every time he plays we look better balanced and stonger going forwards. What clauses are in Williams' loan contract? Will Dean Smith's family be held at gunpoint if he is dropped to the bench? 

[king canary 7,679]

Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

These are two points that were going through my mind all the way home. 

I just don't understand what Giannoulis has to do to get a decent run in the team, every time he plays we look better balanced and stonger going forwards. What clauses are in Williams' loan contract? Will Dean Smith's family be held at gunpoint if he is dropped to the bench? 

I said pre match that I wondered if the fact we needed to start Cantwell forced his hand. We saw in the first half Todd offered zero protection to Williams. Giannoulis likes to get forward and v Man U it worked because he had Sargent putting in the hard yards in front of him and making sure we weren't left exposed. Todd isn't doing that.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

I said pre match that I wondered if the fact we needed to start Cantwell forced his hand. We saw in the first half Todd offered zero protection to Williams. Giannoulis likes to get forward and v Man U it worked because he had Sargent putting in the hard yards in front of him and making sure we weren't left exposed. Todd isn't doing that.

I'm not convinced Williams' slightly superior defending is worth sacrificing one of our best attacking threats in Giannoulis. But fair enough, I can get on board with that to a degree, doesn't explain why we persisted with it when we were 0-1 down and needing a goal though!

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,450]

In the first half we had two right sided players - Williams and Cantwell playing wide left and the supporting midfield player was often Gilmour - another right footed player. As a result nothing , and I mean nothing , went down the City left .

So all Villa had to do was defend narrow because we didn’t even try and move the ball into the left final third. Villa overload midfield . Piece of cake.

Left footed Dimi sitting scratching his bum on the bench either means he is not fit , or Williams (who stunk the place out) is preferred which I don’t get . 

Add in Teemu being Completely dominated by Mings and the other bloke.

Mings , I doubt , even needed a shower after the game . It was so easy for him. 

Neither did Cantwell, though for completely different reasons. 

 

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,092]

Games like this are a blessing in disguise. Helps to not still be angry about Newcastle and Man Utd.

We're not going to get relegated this season because of a few isolated incidents in games where we felt hard done by. We're getting relegated because we're sh*t.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

36 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Games like this are a blessing in disguise. Helps to not still be angry about Newcastle and Man Utd.

We're not going to get relegated this season because of a few isolated incidents in games where we felt hard done by. We're getting relegated because we're sh*t.

Wait till we get the 'Perspective needed' threads assuring everyone how fine everything really is! 

[chicken 2,649]

47 minutes ago, king canary said:

I said pre match that I wondered if the fact we needed to start Cantwell forced his hand. We saw in the first half Todd offered zero protection to Williams. Giannoulis likes to get forward and v Man U it worked because he had Sargent putting in the hard yards in front of him and making sure we weren't left exposed. Todd isn't doing that.

Giannoulis was also unwell and hence only on the bench.

[Yobocop 1,105]

Would imagine Williams was preferred to giannoulis to keep cash quiet 

Gibson did alright and Cantwell is the new boo boy with good reason 

[mrD66M 102]

Cantwell is done for, I think. Heard a rumour from a workmate (fellow Yella) that the reason Farke froze him out is that Todd supposedly fooled around with DF's daughter, and even tried a move on Pukki's partner - I'm not sure I believe him.. but we live in strange times!

Best outcome for this season would be to sell Cantwell soon as the Jan window opens, get a useful striker with the proceeds, return Gilmour to his parent club, send Idah on loan and get a Tettey-type DM. Possibly recall either Hugill or Drmic?

[Helsinki canary 244]

4 hours ago, mrD66M said:

Cantwell is done for, I think. Heard a rumour from a workmate (fellow Yella) that the reason Farke froze him out is that Todd supposedly fooled around with DF's daughter, and even tried a move on Pukki's partner - I'm not sure I believe him.. but we live in strange times!

Best outcome for this season would be to sell Cantwell soon as the Jan window opens, get a useful striker with the proceeds, return Gilmour to his parent club, send Idah on loan and get a Tettey-type DM. Possibly recall either Hugill or Drmic?

Problem will be no one will want to buy damaged goods in January so cannot rely on cash from him

[hogesar 9,760]

9 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Might have more validity if some of our so called fringe players like Sorenson and Placheta weren't actually our better performers out there, and that the so called big names such as Gibson, Cantwell and the golden boy were the ones who were attrocious

I think a midfield of Sorensen, McLean and Gilmour gets overrun and outworked by every Premier League midfield for starters. I dont think Sorensen really offered anything in midfield. 

[canarybubbles 1,946]

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think a midfield of Sorensen, McLean and Gilmour gets overrun and outworked by every Premier League midfield for starters. I dont think Sorensen really offered anything in midfield. 

He offered a damn sight more than either Gilmour or McLean.

 

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

36 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

He offered a damn sight more than either Gilmour or McLean.

 

This 👍

[hogesar 9,760]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

He offered a damn sight more than either Gilmour or McLean.

 

I know he's a favourite who's got better from not playing - and he certainly wasn't the worst on the pitch - but how did he help the team? He made 4 interceptions / tackles all game and 3 of those were as the CB, one as the defensive sitting midfielder. He didn't offer a ball out for the CB's, as he was pretty static. Gilmour did at least do that, although he done nothing with the ball afterwards.

None of that midfield worked and was completely overrun.

Edited December 15, 2021 by hogesar

[king canary 7,679]

11 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I think the issue with it is if you look at the Man U game, for example, that midfield worked as a unit and seemed to know when to press or not.

if that area of the team changed, last minute (and possibly the CB pairing too) then that definitely would have disrupted things.

The one mistake I think Smith made tonight was not playing Gianoulis, even if in a more advanced role if necessary. He was great on Saturday and he gives us a left footed outlet down the left. Williams is probably a better defender but his need to cut back on his right foot slows us down at times and in the first half it was just too easy for them to press us. 

Yep, the team looked very disjointed but it is understandable.

Have Kabak and Gibson ever started a game as our central defence pairing? Has that back 4 ever played together? That midfield 3 certainly never had, not had that front 3. Aarons and Placheta were only playing their second game on the same flank. So many different elements of this XI that were new and likely had to be chosen at short notice.

Even though I don't think Sargent and Rupp are world beaters I have no doubt we'd have looked better as a unit with those two starting.

[Google Bot 3,329]

We don't know who has been feeling unwell in the lead up, or even unwell on that pitch.  From how I interpreted Smith post match, sounds that there were players showing symptoms who returned negative tests and so part of the squad as he was talking about protecting other teams who we play.

There's no telling what goes on behind closed doors, but we generally had very little energy or spark. Could be a lot of anxiety/dip in moral around the players and it really sucks it out of you.  I find that lack of energy a far bigger factor than the actual players brought in personally.

[CANARYKING 644]

57 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

We don't know who has been feeling unwell in the lead up, or even unwell on that pitch.  From how I interpreted Smith post match, sounds that there were players showing symptoms who returned negative tests and so part of the squad as he was talking about protecting other teams who we play.

There's no telling what goes on behind closed doors, but we generally had very little energy or spark. Could be a lot of anxiety/dip in moral around the players and it really sucks it out of you.  I find that lack of energy a far bigger factor than the actual players brought in personally.

Should have made more of an effort to get the game postponed, Manure did it with four or five covids

[Google Bot 3,329]

16 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Should have made more of an effort to get the game postponed, Manure did it with four or five covids

That's us all over though, should've made a storm at the handball from Gilmour's first shot vs United too, at least force VAR into looking at it.

I think the problem is we stall and leave things too late, if there's any doubt don't be a martyr - inform them 24-48 hours ahead of time, I can see why they wouldn't ok a postponement on the same day as kick-off as there's too much already in motion at that point.

Villa clearly over-empthasised their covid spread, incase they needed to call the match off, we seem to keen to downplay it.  Only one team was truly short last night.

[chicken 2,649]

19 hours ago, mrD66M said:

Cantwell is done for, I think. Heard a rumour from a workmate (fellow Yella) that the reason Farke froze him out is that Todd supposedly fooled around with DF's daughter, and even tried a move on Pukki's partner - I'm not sure I believe him.. but we live in strange times!

I thought it was well known they don't live in the UK... 

[Mason 47 1,403]

For me it isn't so much makeshift, but more that after Kabak went off we were missing all but one of our Premier League signings- having to play Byram in midfield!

That being said I think we also got done tactically. We seemed to think we were going to play through them (setting up with width but cutting into the middle every time) and Villa just sat and waited.

Sorenson to me offers similar to Gilmour, but with more physicality; having both in was a mistake. Todd looked like he's regressed 4 years. Pukki doesn't exist unless we can do better than pass-pass-pass-punt. And although I wouldn't lay the blame particularly at his door, both goals came from youth players down Max's side.

All in all, we got whacked.

[Alfie54 76]

23 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I think the issue with it is if you look at the Man U game, for example, that midfield worked as a unit and seemed to know when to press or not.

if that area of the team changed, last minute (and possibly the CB pairing too) then that definitely would have disrupted things.

The one mistake I think Smith made tonight was not playing Gianoulis, even if in a more advanced role if necessary. He was great on Saturday and he gives us a left footed outlet down the left. Williams is probably a better defender but his need to cut back on his right foot slows us down at times and in the first half it was just too easy for them to press us. 

Agree on Gianoulis, didn’t deserve to be dropped and Williams had a stinker, s3cond goal was his fault

[Canary Jedi 590]

22 hours ago, chicken said:

Giannoulis was also unwell and hence only on the bench.

Shows how badly hit our squad was that we had an unwell player on the bench

[chicken 2,649]

1 minute ago, Canary Jedi said:

Shows how badly hit our squad was that we had an unwell player on the bench

Also shows how much attention people pay to Dean Smith as folks are still going on about it being unfair to drop Giannoulis... 

[Canary Jedi 590]

1 minute ago, chicken said:

Also shows how much attention people pay to Dean Smith as folks are still going on about it being unfair to drop Giannoulis... 

Yes that’s odd because It was mentioned in Smith’s pre-match press conference I think but I guess not everyone reads the details prior to a match. I’m always interested to know the latest on players fit or injured before a game. 

[chicken 2,649]

6 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

Yes that’s odd because It was mentioned in Smith’s pre-match press conference I think but I guess not everyone reads the details prior to a match. I’m always interested to know the latest on players fit or injured before a game. 

And post match... which I always like to listen/watch for the response/reaction.