How poor is Sargent?

[Fuzzar 1,702]

8 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Some are unconvinced by Idah but he has goal instincts in him, is a handful and can finish but has never been given a run in the team, Sargent has come straight in and been given plenty of games.... suspect Idah would prove a much better option given that degree of opportunity.    

Josh reminds me of Emule Heskey, lots of running and effort but lacks quality, technique and creativity ... its unlikely we can improve him to the level required and a wonder how they scouted him!   

What, an old donkey? 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

What, an old donkey? 

You got it!   

[The Bristol Nest 513]

1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

McLean got away with no thread, he was anonymous last night

Reading this rather weak thread I was thinking that at least Kenny gets a day off.

Then this.

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

1 hour ago, The Bristol Nest said:

Reading this rather weak thread I was thinking that at least Kenny gets a day off.

Then this.

He got a day off when he played well on Saturday 

[Chelm Canary 404]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Webber pretty much said they scouted him on the basis of his running stats being off the charts didn’t he?

I think it's paid off before with players such as Buendia and Hernandez, but having a player who can charge around for 90 minutes clearly doesn't always make them a good investment. 

[1902 1,167]

11 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Some are unconvinced by Idah but he has goal instincts in him, is a handful and can finish but has never been given a run in the team, Sargent has come straight in and been given plenty of games.... suspect Idah would prove a much better option given that degree of opportunity.    

Josh reminds me of Emule Heskey, lots of running and effort but lacks quality, technique and creativity ... its unlikely we can improve him to the level required and a wonder how they scouted him!   

Emile Heskey scorer a lot of goals in the premier league.

We would love if he turned out like Heskey.

[Penelope Catchpole 32]

Well, we have to consider that this isn’t a squad player or someone we bought in the Championship. He was signed specifically to improve our attacking options against premier league teams. By that measure, he is a complete failure. His dribbling and control is sub standard, his shooting is powder puff, his crossing is purely “hit and hope”, and I’ve seen moles with more aerial threat.

RvW was the more accomplished player. I don’t mean that as praise.

[Yellow Wal 314]

11 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Josh reminds me of Emule Heskey, lots of running and effort but lacks quality, technique and creativity ... its unlikely we can improve him to the level required and a wonder how they scouted him!   

I'd be happy if he turns out to be as good as Heskey, scorer of 110 Premiership goals and 7 for England.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

1 hour ago, 1902 said:

Emile Heskey scorer a lot of goals in the premier league.

We would love if he turned out like Heskey.

He scored 111 premier league goals but it took him 516 games to do it (thats 1 in 5 for a centre forward!)   Not a wonder that Liverpool underachieved at the time.   

...  I've seen him try to control a 40 yard ball with his hip!   Say no more!  

1 hour ago, Yellow Wal said:

I'd be happy if he turns out to be as good as Heskey, scorer of 110 Premiership goals and 7 for England.

as above and 7 in 62 games for England.... imagine if he was our centre-forward, how would that work out well?     Like to think there was something else to his game, lots of managers played him, they obviously thought he was a good foil but he didn't contribute much, it was all hype!     38 assists in 516 games suggests that too!   

 

[Yellow Wal 314]

50 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

He scored 111 premier league goals but it took him 516 games to do it (thats 1 in 5 for a centre forward!)   Not a wonder that Liverpool underachieved at the time.   

...  I've seen him try to control a 40 yard ball with his hip!   Say no more!  

as above and 7 in 62 games for England.... imagine if he was our centre-forward, how would that work out well?     Like to think there was something else to his game, lots of managers played him, they obviously thought he was a good foil but he didn't contribute much, it was all hype!     38 assists in 516 games suggests that too!   

 

But nevertheless the managers that continually played him in the Premiership and for England were at the top of their professions and should have known what they were doing.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

Let's be clear Josh isn't going to be anywhere near Heskey standard, whatever that means. Some you win some you lose and Josh just seems to go all ragged as soon as the pace hots up or he gets a good chance.

I can't make my mind up if Idah is any better, or even worse. 

Needs money spent in January and offload one of the above in the summer.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

But nevertheless the managers that continually played him in the Premiership and for England were at the top of their professions and should have known what they were doing.

Agreed, it’s a funny ol’ game saint!   Those stats still don’t lie!   I appreciate there are lots of elements to the players contribution but having watched him regularly he really wasn’t very good at that level and his contribution in goals and assists was poor!    
 

I still wonder how he played so many games just like many wonder (including me) how Sargent has started as many games as he has!    

[canarybubbles 1,915]

13 hours ago, Boris said:

Surgent simply not look like forward and definitely not look like have goals on him.

Also never look like him and Pukki have exchange passes or play as pair at all.

Teemu play incredible amount of games lately for us and Finland and with his pressing game I not see how this man will keep play 85 90 min every round for us!

Idah is hopeless and Sergent no goals and not treat at all to lead the line so we badly need to make something in this area in January .

We was lucky today with missing our 2 key players to face Newcastle playing 85 min with man down, otherwise I not see how this approach can hurt Magpies on counter ...

Twice this season I have seen Pukki look daggers at Sargent when he failed to make a pretty basic pass which would have led to a good goal scoring opportunity, and Pukki is not the kind of guy who looks daggers at people.

[Danke bitte 965]

For me Sargent isn’t a striker. I don’t see him coming good either. We’ve hedged our bets with him and Idah being the heir to Pukki’s throne and it isn’t going to happen. A fairly detracting oversight by Webber 

[valiant 5]

All effort but no quality - certainly at this level.

Looking forward to the mutual termination of his contract in 12 months... 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

9 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

For me Sargent isn’t a striker. I don’t see him coming good either. We’ve hedged our bets with him and Idah being the heir to Pukki’s throne and it isn’t going to happen. A fairly detracting oversight by Webber 

But, unlike Sargent, Idah has not started more than half of the games so far this season - under Farke he got maybe 5 minutes at the end of a few games. I thought he did OK when he came on last night.

Edited December 1, 2021 by canarybubbles

[valiant 5]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

But, unlike Sargent, Idah has not started more than half of the games so far this season - under Farke he got maybe 5 minutes at the end of a few games. I thought he did OK when he came on last night.

He was certainly involved quite a bit, but whenever he comes on he always seems to miss pretty big chances not convinced he quite has it. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

5 minutes ago, valiant said:

He was certainly involved quite a bit, but whenever he comes on he always seems to miss pretty big chances not convinced he quite has it. 

I tend to agree, but I feel he deserves a run in the team to prove us wrong. One of the problems of being in the Prem in terms of developing players is that you don't really have that luxury.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

4 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I tend to agree, but I feel he deserves a run in the team to prove us wrong. One of the problems of being in the Prem in terms of developing players is that you don't really have that luxury.

Sargent has been given that luxury!    

12 minutes ago, valiant said:

He was certainly involved quite a bit, but whenever he comes on he always seems to miss pretty big chances not convinced he quite has it. 

Confidence is absolutely crucial at this level.... not being given enough opportunity or a loan to gain experience is hardly going to help him and so its unfair IMO to take an objective view.  

Edited December 1, 2021 by ged in the onion bag

[curious yellow 184]

Plenty of effort but that doesn't make him a Prem player,  not only unable to score but we don't score many while he's on the pitch. Idah is much more effective, challenging for crosses even though he's not going to reach them. 

[Canaries north 151]

Sargent is not a footballer, he's an athlete. Energy and work rate is about all he brings to the table. He has the football ability of a 14 year old academy player at best. The problem is he is not 14 with time to improve. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but to think we could have signed Norman for the same money. I hate picking out individual players for blame but it's difficult not to see he is playing in a league way above his ability, not his fault by the way. 

[1902 1,167]

2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

He scored 111 premier league goals but it took him 516 games to do it (thats 1 in 5 for a centre forward!)   Not a wonder that Liverpool underachieved at the time.   

...  I've seen him try to control a 40 yard ball with his hip!   Say no more!  

as above and 7 in 62 games for England.... imagine if he was our centre-forward, how would that work out well?     Like to think there was something else to his game, lots of managers played him, they obviously thought he was a good foil but he didn't contribute much, it was all hype!     38 assists in 516 games suggests that too!   

 

Thats an absolutely fine record for a second striker. Sure it's not outstanding, but playing alongside an out an out goal scorer that would be perfectly acceptable.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

6 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Webber pretty much said they scouted him on the basis of his running stats being off the charts didn’t he?

Yes, but someone must have gone over to watch him in real time, surely?  Before committing 9m or whatever he cost. And surely that scout must have seen  that, although he can run all day, he has absolutely no ball skills. If running is all that counts, why don't we just sign the winner of the London Marathon?

[ged in the onion bag 855]

5 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Thats an absolutely fine record for a second striker. Sure it's not outstanding, but playing alongside an out an out goal scorer that would be perfectly acceptable.

We all see it differently.  IMO he was a poor footballer.   

[1902 1,167]

7 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

We all see it differently.  IMO he was a poor footballer.   

That's fair enough.

[Danke bitte 965]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

But, unlike Sargent, Idah has not started more than half of the games so far this season - under Farke he got maybe 5 minutes at the end of a few games. I thought he did OK when he came on last night.

Is ok going to cut it if Pukki gets injured?

[Peanuts 150]

He's what happens when you base recruitment too heavily on obscure stats like pressing intensity or whatever. Runs around a lot but can't actually play football.

[RobertRosariosBeefTomatoes 31]

He is a young man, a long way from home and playing in the premier league for the first time. It takes time and he has all of the raw talent to nurture. Honestly, the poor guy will be well aware of threads like this and pretty sure that doesn't help his mindset either. Why does there always have to be a scapegoat? Go support Man City.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

2 hours ago, Danke bitte said:

Is ok going to cut it if Pukki gets injured?

Omobamidele, had full game opportunities, took them, Godfrey, Cantwell, Aarons, etc the same.   The lad (just like Sorensen - who did take his opportunity) has the skills, just needs a proper chance, he deserves that but 3 minutes and 5 minutes here and there isn't an opportunity.    Strikers need games, time on the pitch and above all confidence, how's he get that if he thinks he's only making up the numbers every week?   

Regardless, still unfair to expect Pukki stats and standards.... but... you never know.

[Danke bitte 965]

7 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Omobamidele, had full game opportunities, took them, Godfrey, Cantwell, Aarons, etc the same.   The lad (just like Sorensen - who did take his opportunity) has the skills, just needs a proper chance, he deserves that but 3 minutes and 5 minutes here and there isn't an opportunity.    Strikers need games, time on the pitch and above all confidence, how's he get that if he thinks he's only making up the numbers every week?   

Regardless, still unfair to expect Pukki stats and standards.... but... you never know.

I get you. I just think it’s catch 22, we don’t have the time to take a risk on him developing in the Prem but if we don’t he won’t develop. 

He’s also been pretty poor for Ireland but I don’t know much about that in terms of whether they don’t set up for his strengths etc. 

I just feel we’ve been a little duped as fans expecting this hyped talent only for him never to really have got going. And I don’t know, at this stage, if it’s too late.