Emi

[birchfest 397]

38 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Webber lowered the price last week in case you missed it... quess we need that cash. Doesn't seem very "planned".

No he didn’t. 
 

[TheGunnShow 5,956]

1 minute ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

This. We don't have rich owners so we need the Premier League money to survive and to compete. We get promoted and people want our best players, again, no rich owners so we have to sell but that then directly affects our ability to survive in the EPL. We get relegated, and we have to build again.

Would we be selling Emi if we had richer owners? No.

Will selling Emi be to the detriment of our chances of staying up this season? Yes.

If we sell Emi, none of the players we bring in step up to the same level (and let's be honest here, we all believe Emi is an amazing player, "best in a yellow shirt", what we're asking here is extremely difficult), and then get relegated, what has selling him achieved?

Disagree with the bit in bold. Status means far more than that simplified perspective. Rich owners did not stop moves such as Mahrez, Kante and Maguire from Leicester or indeed pretty much any move from the Premier League to Real Madrid.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Disagree with the bit in bold. Status means far more than that simplified perspective. Rich owners did not stop moves such as Mahrez, Kante and Maguire from Leicester or indeed pretty much any move from the Premier League to Real Madrid.

I see the Leicester moves being brought up a lot, the difference is that while those players were important, none of them were Leicester's "star". The strength of the team around them was a much higher level than the players around Emi in our squad. Emi is one of only 2 or 3 proper Premier League standard players in our team, our out-and-out star performer, Championship player of the season etc. He, as a single player, is worth far more to us than any of those individuals were to Leicester when sold.

Selling Emi for us is like taking the engine out of our car, not just losing a wheel or 2. He's the single biggest influence on our success.

[FatCanary 249]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Ah a nice insult thrown in at the end... pity you can not remember we all support the same club. I think you are a wrong but I'll not insult you intelligence as thats very petty.

I can only go on the evidence presented.

Rather than play the poor me card, how about a counter argument?

I'm sure you are very knowledgeable in lots of ways and possibly an intelligent person but what you do not seem to have is the capacity to understand the world of modern football. Also, don't cut my quote off before the end to make it look like I was insulting your intelligence as opposed to just your football intelligence, as that's just sad.

Edited June 4, 2021 by FatCanary

[horsefly 4,310]

17 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It seems these days that a certain group, would rather be seen as a lovely little club that is nice to people and a stepping stone to the likes of Leicester / Wolves (when we went away every game, they were on a par with us...) rather than us trying to winning a trophy and competing at the highest level. Its also strange how snarky and insulting those very people get when you question or disagree with the direction of the club despite applauding the efforts of the owners in delivering a solid platform on which to grow. Seems they are happy with out lot. Not me. 

Top 26 is not a mission statement anyone serious about sport has on their wall. 

Oh well time to move on... looking forward to the usual insults from the same people.

Sorry but that is both patronising and tosh. Feel free to identify the beneficent billionaire who is going to pump hundreds of millions into the club, no strings attached, so that we can compete at the "highest" level in the way you suggest. For every Leicester (who got very lucky with their billionaire owner) there are many more clubs who entertained your fantasy and who are now languishing in serious debt, assets stripped, and in the lower leagues . I very much doubt you know the name of a beneficent billionaire so please explain how NCFC might employ a better strategy than the present one, both to ensure they can remain finacially viable and provide a genuine opportunity to establish the club in the PL. That lot down the road bagged themselves a billionaire, didn't go too well did it!

[TheGunnShow 5,956]

Just now, Canary Wundaboy said:

I see the Leicester moves being brought up a lot, the difference is that while those players were important, none of them were Leicester's "star". The strength of the team around them was a much higher level than the players around Emi in our squad. Emi is one of only 2 or 3 proper Premier League standard players in our team, our out-and-out star performer, Championship player of the season etc. He, as a single player, is worth far more to us than any of those individuals were to Leicester when sold.

Selling Emi for us is like taking the engine out of our car, not just losing a wheel or 2. He's the single biggest influence on our success.

Kante and Mahrez weren't Leicester's stars? If Leicester haven't replaced anyone, it's Kante. Ndidi is getting there, and Tielemans looks a very rounded and complete player though, but that partnership's not quite there yet.

I do see what you're saying though, and agree to an extent.

[FatCanary 249]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Helps that Brentford's sporting director isn't saying they'll listen to offers of £xx. That's why.

If you put your fingers in your ears long enough you can almost hear the sound of Brentford not having loads more money than us

[Jim Smith 2,325]

It’s very different trying to replace a Kante or a Mahrez when you are a top 7 or 8 premier league club and can spend £25m - £30m on a replacement.

And also as I keep pointing out they had already won the premier league, something their fans will take to the grave with them along with their recent FA Cup win.

its not comparable to selling your undisputed star player (and one of a handful you could say have genuine premier league quality) at a time when you are trying to kick on and establish yourselves at the top level. 

[FatCanary 249]

5 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I see the Leicester moves being brought up a lot, the difference is that while those players were important, none of them were Leicester's "star". The strength of the team around them was a much higher level than the players around Emi in our squad. Emi is one of only 2 or 3 proper Premier League standard players in our team, our out-and-out star performer, Championship player of the season etc. He, as a single player, is worth far more to us than any of those individuals were to Leicester when sold.

Selling Emi for us is like taking the engine out of our car, not just losing a wheel or 2. He's the single biggest influence on our success.

Yes, we had all this with Maddison.

Selling isn't as damaging as you think.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

5 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

Yes, we had all this with Maddison.

Selling isn't as damaging as you think.

Selling Emi does not strengthen our chances to stay up. 

Selling Maddison because we had to for financial reasons when we were mid-table was a totally different situation.

[FatCanary 249]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

It’s very different trying to replace a Kante or a Mahrez when you are a top 7 or 8 premier league club and can spend £25m - £30m on a replacement.

And also as I keep pointing out they had already won the premier league, something their fans will take to the grave with them along with their recent FA Cup win.

its not comparable to selling your undisputed star player (and one of a handful you could say have genuine premier league quality) at a time when you are trying to kick on and establish yourselves at the top level. 

Yeah, but they were a lot further along in their project under the Thai owners and still had to sell their best players. That they could afford to replace them is because their success was a lot more overnight. Had we stayed up in 19/20 then won the prem in 20/21, we could probably afford to replace Buendia as well, but as our project arc is more realistic and long term and is founded upon good relationships with our players being of paramount importance, then if Emi wants to leave we have to let him, and take the money, and build again. The damage you do to that dressing room when you force him to stay and show everyone else there's no career progression (we ARE a stepping stone without investment, get over it) then all of our good work is undone and we sleep walk back to Championship mediocrity.

 

Also can everyone stop going waaaaaah you got personal? I will attack your football opinions, this is a football forum. At no point do I wish to or would I claim that those opinions define you as a human being. I just think some of you need to take your fan hat off and read a football book sometimes.

 

Kind regards,

FC

Friend of the Community 

[FatCanary 249]

Just now, Canary Wundaboy said:

Selling Emi does not strengthen our chances to stay up. 

Selling Maddison because we had to for financial reasons when we were mid-table was a totally different situation.

That first statement is entirely based on guesswork really. If we can sign Emi Buendia for less than 40m once, we can do it again. To say we can't just becomes the millstone of 'genius transfers only happen once' which is ridiculous. I bet you weren't earmarking Emi as a worldie when he signed, so I think being given forty million quid to do what a couple of million once did is looking a gift horse in the mouth to be honest. Emi wants to go. Let him.

[Jim Smith 2,325]

1 minute ago, FatCanary said:

Yeah, but they were a lot further along in their project under the Thai owners and still had to sell their best players. That they could afford to replace them is because their success was a lot more overnight. Had we stayed up in 19/20 then won the prem in 20/21, we could probably afford to replace Buendia as well, but as our project arc is more realistic and long term and is founded upon good relationships with our players being of paramount importance, then if Emi wants to leave we have to let him, and take the money, and build again. The damage you do to that dressing room when you force him to stay and show everyone else there's no career progression (we ARE a stepping stone without investment, get over it) then all of our good work is undone and we sleep walk back to Championship mediocrity.

 

Also can everyone stop going waaaaaah you got personal? I will attack your football opinions, this is a football forum. At no point do I wish to or would I claim that those opinions define you as a human being. I just think some of you need to take your fan hat off and read a football book sometimes.

 

Kind regards,

FC

Friend of the Community 

I’ve not mentioned anything about getting personal although I always try not to.

Whilst I don’t accept that we have to sell at this moment even given what we are, I accept we are a stepping stone without investment which is why my main point on here has always been that our owners and directors are doing us a disservice by not seeking (or perhaps even blocking) that extra investment. 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

1 minute ago, FatCanary said:

That first statement is entirely based on guesswork really. If we can sign Emi Buendia for less than 40m once, we can do it again. To say we can't just becomes the millstone of 'genius transfers only happen once' which is ridiculous. I bet you weren't earmarking Emi as a worldie when he signed, so I think being given forty million quid to do what a couple of million once did is looking a gift horse in the mouth to be honest. Emi wants to go. Let him.

We signed the Emi Buendia of 4 years ago for that price. Not the Emi Buendia of 2021. 

[Branston Pickle 3,667]

54 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

The BBC article was just a rehash of the comments he'd made to the club website, pinkun and Michael Bailey.  The 'lowering' of the price is also misquoted from things he said about Aarons, not Buendia.

Of course I wouldn't be happy to lose Emi, but lets be honest if Arsenal are stumping up £40m and he wants to go there then there isn't much we can do is there?  It might be funny to think Arsenal are a 'mid table' club at the moment, but they're are a massive club, regularly win silverware and usually compete in Europe.

We are definitely in ‘silly season’ where some will immediately hang on any and every perceived negative.

Your take is, imo, spot on, as separately verified by pinkun journos. The bbc article was merely a rehash of Webber’s widely reported season-end quotes (with a small conflated misquote).

Emi is, of course, one of our best players and one we’d love to keep.  But it’s a matter of weighing everything up - if a player wants to go, in this day and age there is no point standing in their way, particularly if it is so they can better themselves: after all, for better or worse, that is part of our current MO and one that enables us to attract players in the first place. When (if) we are established as a PL side that may change, but we are a way off that.

Looking at it another way, if he’s sold and we can bring in 2-3 players on the back of it, that is a reasonable silver lining.

[FatCanary 249]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I’ve not mentioned anything about getting personal although I always try not to.

Whilst I don’t accept that we have to sell at this moment even given what we are, I accept we are a stepping stone without investment which is why my main point on here has always been that our owners and directors are doing us a disservice by not seeking (or perhaps even blocking) that extra investment. 

This is fair. You're much better when you're not being reactionary. I'm not sure there's many actual legs to that last bit but that is a separate discussion. 🙂

[FatCanary 249]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

We signed the Emi Buendia of 4 years ago for that price. Not the Emi Buendia of 2021. 

I'm sure we are already far down the line on the next Emi. 

[Big O 225]

Emi is our best player without doubt and will be incredibly hard to replace but football always moves on.

it is of course frustrating that we look like going up and then selling our best player/s (max) but if they were promised that (I.e get us up and you can go) then hopefully we have done enough planning ahead.

it would be brilliant if he stayed but I think we have to trust Webber and Farke to get it right, they have earnt that opportunity 

[Foxy2600 305]

I would just hate Emi to go to Arsenal of all teams, the antithesis of everything I love about football. I wouldn’t want him to go to any club that dreamt of the ESL either! As an interested ‘neutral’ watching the rest of the runners and riders in the EPL, I come up with, as acceptable berths as, in order WHU, Brighton and Everton 😉. TBH I wish Bayern Munich came in with an offer of 80m and put an end to the matter. 

I do echo the fact that most of us wanted him to stay last season to get us back up - and at the time we would have been happy to take the outcome “straight back up as Champions”. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Foxy2600
Grammar

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

10 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

I can only go on the evidence presented.

Rather than play the poor me card, how about a counter argument?

I'm sure you are very knowledgeable in lots of ways and possibly an intelligent person but what you do not seem to have is the capacity to understand the world of modern football. Also, don't cut my quote off before the end to make it look like I was insulting your intelligence as opposed to just your football intelligence, as that's just sad.

Poor me? you think your comments are that cutting or important to me? 😜My argument is that the current ownership are a block to taking the opportunities that the top flight presents. A sensible level of investment is vital and necessary to staying up. I believe there are sensible people out there willing to take the club to the to level (I believe the current owners are not looking). I believe the Webber team deserve that chance. I also believe that the risks in the current model are as high as those of a new potential investor / investment, in that their will be a time we struggle to replace an Emi / Madison.

It's a model successful achieved by the likes of Leicester (and failed at Pompey etc) but you surely have faith in the current owners to choose the right option. It's the only option that will, imo, give us a chance to deliver a cup or Europe, in my life time.

I think you are just very naive and have no understanding of what is needed to compete at the top level. ✌️

[Big O 225]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Poor me? you think your comments are that cutting or important to me? 😜My argument is that the current ownership are a block to taking the opportunities that the top flight presents. A sensible level of investment is vital and necessary to staying up. I believe there are sensible people out there willing to take the club to the to level (I believe the current owners are not looking). I believe the Webber team deserve that chance. I also believe that the risks in the current model are as high as those of a new potential investor / investment, in that their will be a time we struggle to replace an Emi / Madison.

It's a model successful achieved by the likes of Leicester (and failed at Pompey etc) but you surely have faith in the current owners to choose the right option. It's the only option that will, imo, give us a chance to deliver a cup or Europe, in my life time.

I think you are just very naive and have no understanding of what is needed to compete at the top level. ✌️

Leicester had a multi billionaire (and family) buy them who appear to be the perfect owners including investing in the community around the club. I think they have been incredibly lucky.

I think Norwich will of course struggle to compete in a league where they have the least money but I think most fans are incredibly grateful for the club we now have. 

[Cantiaci Canary 558]

I'm genuinely stunned to see posters angry and confused about Emi's departure!

1. Webber's been clear for months that some / all of the crown jewels will go if he deems the package to be right.

2. We've had a bonus year out of Emi propelling us to the title (the second that he's won with us). If he's keen to move on to bigger things and earn a lot more money then good luck to him and thanks for the memories.

3. If you refuse to let top talent leave you create resentment and destroy the credibility of your sales pitch to young superstars that you can provide a pathway to playing for clubs on the European stage.

4. Like every English club ... we are part of a food chain. When bigger clubs with bottomless pockets come calling we sell up. It has always been thus. The key thing is to invest the profit shrewdly.

[sgncfc 1,233]

In all honesty, none of us have any idea what is needed to compete in the PL. We don't see the data the club collects and we are not sufficiently informed to judge a player simply based on what we see as fans on matchdays. Which is why we have to trust the management and coaching team who have brought us success to date - 6 players in the PFA team of the year, not just Buendia, another championship and records galore.

I think we go with SW and DF to bring us a new Buendia/Cantwell/Pukki/Krul/Aarons etc if we have to sell them - which we do, if we made those promises.

[Jim Smith 2,325]

21 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

This is fair. You're much better when you're not being reactionary. I'm not sure there's many actual legs to that last bit but that is a separate discussion. 🙂

I’m a fan, I get emotional about the prospect of losing our best player! 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

3 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

I'm genuinely stunned to see posters angry and confused about Emi's departure!

1. Webber's been clear for months that some / all of the crown jewels will go if he deems the package to be right.

2. We've had a bonus year out of Emi propelling us to the title (the second that he's won with us). If he's keen to move on to bigger things and earn a lot more money then good luck to him and thanks for the memories.

3. If you refuse to let top talent leave you create resentment and destroy the credibility of your sales pitch to young superstars that you can provide a pathway to playing for clubs on the European stage.

4. Like every English club ... we are part of a food chain. When bigger clubs with bottomless pockets come calling we sell up. It has always been thus. The key thing is to invest the profit shrewdly.

I don't buy 3 in this specific scenario. The club comes before the player, we just got promoted, the player won loads of awards, he's getting Premier League football this season, the club needs him to stay to have a realistic chance of staying up. I totall appreciate the value of our "pitch" but there has to be a balance and the needs of the club right now are that if we want to have a serious shot of staying up this season, we need Emi. 

[Haus 259]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

For now.

Villa are also a bigger club and on top of that, Grealish is a life-long fan of the club which means he's less likely to cause disruption for a move (although still not impossible). 

They were in the Championship with us, I'd generally consider them peers more than a much bigger club.   They arent Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool.

[horsefly 4,310]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Helps that Brentford's sporting director isn't saying they'll listen to offers of £xx. That's why.

Of course, we don't have any evidence that Brentford have sold off their best players pretty much every end of season. Remind me who they sold last year, while we managed to hold on to Aarons, Buendia, Cantwell. Both clubs deserve respect for the fact that, sans beneficent billionaires, they have developed a business model that keeps them financially secure AND enabled them to achieve promotion. It would be extraordinarily naive to think that richer clubs are not aware that Brentford have a bottom line transfer fee for ALL of their players.

[Cantiaci Canary 558]

9 minutes ago, Haus said:

They were in the Championship with us, I'd generally consider them peers more than a much bigger club.   They arent Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool.

Across the entirety of football supporters across the UK literally only Norwich fans would see Aston Villa as 'peers more than a much bigger club' than Norwich City!

Look at their wealth, stadium, squad, reputation and history.

We went through all of this when Lambert left!

Edited June 4, 2021 by Cantiaci Canary

[king canary 7,624]

3 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Across the entirety of football supporters across the UK literally only Norwich fans would see Aston Villa as 'peers more than a much bigger club' than Norwich City!

Look at their wealth, stadium, squad, reputation and history.

We went through all of this when Lambert left!

Yeah they are bigger but not so much bigger that they should be able to cherry pick our best players. 

[Cantiaci Canary 558]

10 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I don't buy 3 in this specific scenario. The club comes before the player, we just got promoted, the player won loads of awards, he's getting Premier League football this season, the club needs him to stay to have a realistic chance of staying up. I totall appreciate the value of our "pitch" but there has to be a balance and the needs of the club right now are that if we want to have a serious shot of staying up this season, we need Emi. 

There are no English clubs that refuse to let their top talent leave if a club higher up the food chain picks up the phone ... even if that player of VITAL to their success.

For example ... watch Harry Kane depart Spurs this window.