Club make complaint about officials

[Spix 3]

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Just to be clear re the reserve keeper we are moaning about our   club there because our second string keeper is quite clearly nowhere near good enough and many of us pointed this out as a concern in the summer. I don't think people are claiming its unfair or Luton were lucky because of it, its a frustration with our own club and how they have left us rather exposed. Same with the full back situation where we idiotically loaned out our reserve left back to Coventry and are now having to play a central midfielder there for 3 months!

Don't start me on keepers" We have a keeper who is regularly selected to play for his Country, (Croatia). He's 6'2" and has all the attributes needed to be top class. Problem is he can't catch!!! He must have super glue on his boots because he never comes off his line for crosses. Against Cardiff last week they scored twice direct from corners, each time headers from no more than four yards from goal. That's not acceptable to me.

[Spix 3]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The FA cup is a scrub competition for losers. We barely bother with it. It’s for plucky little pub teams like Luton and big clubs B teams. Who cares.

we don’t want your respect. Don’t call us your “local team” you are in or out with Norwich. Can’t stand this “I always look in on results for Norwich” malarkey. You are Nodge or you ain’t. Simple as that.

It's precisely the billy big **** comments like that which cause problems in football. I'm primarily a Luton fan. I also like to see Norwich do well but essentially I'm a football fan so unlike you I can see the bigger picture.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

7 minutes ago, Spix said:

Don't start me on keepers" We have a keeper who is regularly selected to play for his Country, (Croatia). He's 6'2" and has all the attributes needed to be top class. Problem is he can't catch!!! He must have super glue on his boots because he never comes off his line for crosses. Against Cardiff last week they scored twice direct from corners, each time headers from no more than four yards from goal. That's not acceptable to me.

I quite agree and our game against you was a case in point about the issues it can cause when a keeper remains rooted to his line at all times. Although it was a great ball in, a lot of keepers might have come and punched that cross for your second but generally every time a cross comes in Mcgovern is stuck on his line and you can see the uncertainty is caused in the defence.

Again not sour grapes but the form of Krul has been such this season that the difference between him and Mcgovern appears to be a goal or two a game. I'm pretty confident he would have saved at least one of your first two goals and his record against penalties is unbelievable (in part because the takers know how good he is). He's such a big loss for us, particularly as his replacement is not adequate. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Jim Smith

[Spix 3]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I quite agree and our game against you was a case in point about the issues it can cause when a keeper remains rooted to his lone at all times. Although it was a great ball in, a lot of keepers might have come and punched that cross for your second but generally every time a cross comes in Mcgovern is stuck on his line and you can see the uncertainty is caused in the defence.

Again not sour grapes but the form of Krul has been such this season that the difference between him and Mcgovern appears to be a goal or two a game. I'm pretty confident he would have saved at least one of your first two goals and his record against penalties is unbelievable (in part because the takers know how good he is). He's such a big loss for us, particularly as his replacement is not adequate. 

With respect I doubt very much that Krul, top keeper that he is, would have saved Collins' penalty. It's a long time since I've seen a spot kick hammered with such venom as that one.

[horsefly 4,310]

37 minutes ago, Spix said:

 

We've had awful referees as well in the past and no doubt will get some again in the future, but the club doesn't go cap in hand complaining about it to the EFL.  The board at Luton are dignified in everything they do and say. Norwich and Mr. Farke could learn from them in that respect.

Uhm! I'm not sure you've quite got your idiom right here. What has filing a complaint got to do with going "cap in hand"? And if you don't think a Luton player celebrating a penalty decision with the ref in that manner raises serious issues then you didn't learn much from your time volunteering as a ref. Couple that egregious act with several other dubious decisions then it's not surprising the club has filed a complaint. 

And your final comment here is both ridiculous and disrespectful itself.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

2 minutes ago, Spix said:

With respect I doubt very much that Krul, top keeper that he is, would have saved Collins' penalty. It's a long time since I've seen a spot kick hammered with such venom as that one.

We will never know but it wasn;t in the corner so if the keeper doesn;t dive early they have a chance. But the point with Krul really is he gets in the penalty taker's head. Collins had not scored for a while as I understand it. He will have been a little nervous. Having Krul bouncing around on the line is a different ball game to facing the much smaller Mcgovern. There is a reason why Krul is seen as arguably the best keeper against penalties in Europe. 

But I can;t claim he definitely would have saved it, just that I think there would have been a much better chance of it being saved. Mind you it should never have been given in the first place. That was an absolute joke of a decision as I am sure you, as a referee, would agree?

[Spix 3]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

We will never know but it wasn;t in the corner so if the keeper doesn;t dive early they have a chance. But the point with Krul really is he gets in the penalty taker's head. Collins had not scored for a while as I understand it. He will have been a little nervous. Having Krul bouncing around on the line is a different ball game to facing the much smaller Mcgovern. There is a reason why Krul is seen as arguably the best keeper against penalties in Europe. 

But I can;t claim he definitely would have saved it, just that I think there would have been a much better chance of it being saved. Mind you it should never have been given in the first place. That was an absolute joke of a decision as I am sure you, as a referee, would agree?

It looked very dubious, I have to say, but then I think yours was also dubious, a comment I've taken enormous stick for on here. As for Collins' penalty although very close to the centre of goal it was hit with such pace I doubt even Krul would have had time to react, but we'll never know.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

6 minutes ago, Spix said:

With respect I doubt very much that Krul, top keeper that he is, would have saved Collins' penalty. It's a long time since I've seen a spot kick hammered with such venom as that one.

With respect, Tim Krul I saw it said recently, is actually regarded as one of the very best keepers in the world for saving penalties - he’s renowned for it. I think you underestimate him hugely. It’s ridiculous how often he keeps the ball out of the net. The penalty wasn’t at an awkward height or anything, certainly not for Krul. And that’s not even taking into consideration how seasoned he is at putting the penalty taker off prior to the whistle.

Also, don’t be surprised for getting flak for how you initially communicated with City supporters on here. You knew what you were doing. Ive not seen you admit the behaviour of your player with the ref was unacceptable and bizarre yet either. Though it’s no coincidence that since you’ve turned into a more measured and respectful poster you’ve got far more polite responses - we’re generally a very reasonable bunch on here until provoked.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

3 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

With respect, Tim Krul I saw it said recently, is actually regarded as one of the very best keepers in the world for saving penalties - he’s renowned for it. I think you underestimate him hugely. It’s ridiculous how often he keeps the ball out of the net. The penalty wasn’t at an awkward height or anything, certainly not for Krul. And that’s not even taking into consideration how seasoned he is at putting the penalty taker off prior to the whistle.

Also, don’t be surprised for getting flak for how you initially communicated with City supporters on here. You knew what you were doing. Ive not seen you admit the behaviour of your player with the ref was unacceptable and bizarre yet either. Though it’s no coincidence that since you’ve turned into a more measured and respectful poster you’ve got far more polite responses - we’re generally a very reasonable bunch on here until provoked.

Its interesting with Krul because I can recall him being brought on as a sub by Holland at the World Cup (or possibly Euros?) specifically for a penalty shootout so he's obviously had this rep for a while but if you look at his career statistics he didn;t save very many in his early career and when he was at Newcastle.

So far for us though its 5 from 13 and one of the 8 scored was Aubamayangs re-take for Arsenal where he made a great save from the initial pen. So its clearly something that he has developed as a specialism as his career has gone on. 

[ncfcstar 292]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Its interesting with Krul because I can recall him being brought on as a sub by Holland at the World Cup (or possibly Euros?) specifically for a penalty shootout so he's obviously had this rep for a while but if you look at his career statistics he didn;t save very many in his early career and when he was at Newcastle.

So far for us though its 5 from 13 and one of the 8 scored was Aubamayangs re-take for Arsenal where he made a great save from the initial pen. So its clearly something that he has developed as a specialism as his career has gone on. 

World Cup Quarter Final against Costa Rica.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Spix said:

Referees are always up for criticism, I should know, I did the job in Anglian Combination and other local leagues for 34 seasons. Yes, you had a massively depleted side the other night but the bookies still had Norwich as favourites to win. I hear complaints about having a second string keeper playing. Luton also had their second string keeper playing and frankly IMHO he's better than our first choice, but that's just my opinion, for which I'm getting massive criticism on the Luton forums. Luton also were without their first choice captain.

We've had awful referees as well in the past and no doubt will get some again in the future, but the club doesn't go cap in hand complaining about it to the EFL. At long last we now have a board of directors in place running the club on a business footing, keping to tight financial constraints with no player earning more than £6,000 per week, yet after a miraculous escape from relegation last season we are now defying all the odds with our mid table position.  The board at Luton are dignified in everything they do and say. Norwich and Mr. Farke could learn from them in that respect.

I like that post Spix, can’t agree with the last sentence because I believe we also conduct ourselves in a dignified way and I wouldn’t say this recent complaint would tarnish that. 

[Well b back 3,279]

25 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I like that post Spix, can’t agree with the last sentence because I believe we also conduct ourselves in a dignified way and I wouldn’t say this recent complaint would tarnish that. 

Indeed. 
This complaint is not as I understand it, anything to do with the decisions that the referee made, it is about the way the referee and officials were disrespectful to several members of our playing and coaching staff, the bit about the decisions is an add on by the pink un.

Before anyone is judged we will need to find out what was done and said as again my understanding was that these instances happened on numerous occasions during and after the game, including in the interval.

[Spix 3]

40 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

With respect, Tim Krul I saw it said recently, is actually regarded as one of the very best keepers in the world for saving penalties - he’s renowned for it. I think you underestimate him hugely. It’s ridiculous how often he keeps the ball out of the net. The penalty wasn’t at an awkward height or anything, certainly not for Krul. And that’s not even taking into consideration how seasoned he is at putting the penalty taker off prior to the whistle.

Also, don’t be surprised for getting flak for how you initially communicated with City supporters on here. You knew what you were doing. Ive not seen you admit the behaviour of your player with the ref was unacceptable and bizarre yet either. Though it’s no coincidence that since you’ve turned into a more measured and respectful poster you’ve got far more polite responses - we’re generally a very reasonable bunch on here until provoked.

I wasn't aware that I've provoked anyone and that certainly was not my intention. I say things as I see them, sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong and I like to think I'm a reasonable bloke too. As for Luke Berry and the referee, I've no idea what happened or why it happened or if there was any intention to influence the referee and neither do you. It's perfectly reasonable to think that maybe as Berry turned to congratulate a fellow playing colleague he might have run unintentially into the referee. The only person who knows the answer to that is Luke Berry so maybe you should address your question about the incident to him rather than me.

[Spix 3]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Indeed. 
This complaint is not as I understand it, anything to do with the decisions that the referee made, it is about the way the referee and officials were disrespectful to several members of our playing and coaching staff, the bit about the decisions is an add on by the pink un.

Before anyone is judged we will need to find out what was done and said as again my understanding was that these instances happened on numerous occasions during and after the game, including in the interval.

Will it also be made known what was said during and after the game, including the interval, to the officials by the Norwich players and management, given that the referee deemed it necessary to speak to Mr. Farke about his comments to the assistant during the match. There are always two sides to every story.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Respect is a two way thing. Refs have a hard enough job as it is. Perhaps take a leaf out of Rugby's book where the officials are untouchable either physically or verbally.

 

[The Real Buh 3,480]

1 hour ago, Spix said:

It's precisely the billy big **** comments like that which cause problems in football. I'm primarily a Luton fan. I also like to see Norwich do well but essentially I'm a football fan so unlike you I can see the bigger picture.

Part timer then yeah?

”im a football fan”

pff... pathetic

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Spix said:

It's precisely the billy big **** comments like that which cause problems in football. I'm primarily a Luton fan. I also like to see Norwich do well but essentially I'm a football fan so unlike you I can see the bigger picture.

Don't bother with him mate.

He drinks from an illegal stream and has now got mad frog disease.

[The Real Buh 3,480]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Don't bother with him mate.

He drinks from an illegal stream and has now got mad frog disease.

You can question my ethics when you stop stealing from the club by watching illegal streams

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

15 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

You can question my ethics when you stop stealing from the club by watching illegal streams

Sorry about the lisp. That makes you  Thmart arth.

[Jools 584]

We lost fair and square to a decent Luton side...

NEXT!

[Well b back 3,279]

1 hour ago, Spix said:

Will it also be made known what was said during and after the game, including the interval, to the officials by the Norwich players and management, given that the referee deemed it necessary to speak to Mr. Farke about his comments to the assistant during the match. There are always two sides to every story.

Please enlighten us you seem to know exactly what happened ? I don’t think you know a thing ? You have indicated we are sore losers ? I will try again, this is nothing to do with us losing, the complaint is our players and officials were disrespected, there is not even a mention of decisions, that would go in the referees report.

I choose not to believe the rumours on some of the things said and wait to see what really happened. Complaints of competence are quite common, the complaint we have made is not only rare but a very serious matter.

[Spix 3]

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Part timer then yeah?

”im a football fan”

pff... pathetic

So you're not a football fan? Is that what you're saying?

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Apparently when we play Luton at Carra we're only using 48% of our floodlights so as to let their players feel at home.....

[Spix 3]

17 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Please enlighten us you seem to know exactly what happened ? I don’t think you know a thing ? You have indicated we are sore losers ? I will try again, this is nothing to do with us losing, the complaint is our players and officials were disrespected, there is not even a mention of decisions, that would go in the referees report.

I choose not to believe the rumours on some of the things said and wait to see what really happened. Complaints of competence are quite common, the complaint we have made is not only rare but a very serious matter.

Where precisely have I said I know what happened or what was said? The only people who know what was said are those involved and that includes neither you or I. All I'm saying is that there were quite obviously words exchanged both ways between the officials, Farke and his management team otherwise why would the referee have spoken to Farke about it during the first half? Maybe Farke and his team were disrespectful to the officials hence the referee's intervention.

[Spix 3]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Indeed. 
This complaint is not as I understand it, anything to do with the decisions that the referee made, it is about the way the referee and officials were disrespectful to several members of our playing and coaching staff, the bit about the decisions is an add on by the pink un.

Before anyone is judged we will need to find out what was done and said as again my understanding was that these instances happened on numerous occasions during and after the game, including in the interval.

Interestingly in today's Eastern Evening News (Friday), concerning the Luton penalty, Skipp is quoted saying the following: "it was the worst time to concede, just after half time. We were unlucky with the penalty decision, Grant slipped."

So there it is from the mouth of a Norwich player involved in the game, Hanley slipped. Meaning he was not pushed, therefore the penalty decision was correct.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

7 minutes ago, Spix said:

Interestingly in today's Eastern Evening News (Friday), concerning the Luton penalty, Skipp is quoted saying the following: "it was the worst time to concede, just after half time. We were unlucky with the penalty decision, Grant slipped."

So there it is from the mouth of a Norwich player involved in the game, Hanley slipped. Meaning he was not pushed, therefore the penalty decision was correct.

Even if he slipped as opposed to being fouled (and I do think he was nudged) I don;t see why the ball accidentally brushing his hand as he put it out to break his fall is a penalty to be honest. 

[Spix 3]

7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Even if he slipped as opposed to being fouled (and I do think he was nudged) I don;t see why the ball accidentally brushing his hand as he put it out to break his fall is a penalty to be honest. 

I wouldn't disagree with that at all, but does anyone understand the current law on handball? I don't and from what I read and hear from both pundits and players, i.e. match of the day, neither do they! There was a blatant handball soon after the pen by Aarons which should have led to another pen but went unpunished so who knows!

Edited December 4, 2020 by Spix
to add to text

[Jim Smith 2,339]

3 minutes ago, Spix said:

I wouldn't disagree with that at all, but does anyone understand the current law on handball? I don't and from what I read and hear from both pundits and players, i.e. match of the day, neither do they!

As I understand it its whether your arm/body is in an unnatural position? I would take the view that if you are plumetting face first towards the ground then having your arm out to break your fall is perfectly natural but then who knows! The whole thing seems to have been stripped of any element of common sense or judgment. 

[jaywick_canery 28]

3 hours ago, Spix said:

Don't start me on keepers" We have a keeper who is regularly selected to play for his Country, (Croatia). He's 6'2" and has all the attributes needed to be top class. Problem is he can't catch!!! He must have super glue on his boots because he never comes off his line for crosses. Against Cardiff last week they scored twice direct from corners, each time headers from no more than four yards from goal. That's not acceptable to me.

6 foot 2? I've stood next to him and I'm 6 foot. No way was he taller than me without ultra long studs in his boots. Plus he's got the arms of an 11 year old.

Very nice fellow though.

[Spix 3]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

As I understand it its whether your arm/body is in an unnatural position? I would take the view that if you are plumetting face first towards the ground then having your arm out to break your fall is perfectly natural but then who knows! The whole thing seems to have been stripped of any element of common sense or judgment. 

Couldn't agree more and for me the introduction of VAR has only increased the problem with decisions. At the end of the day it comes down to interpretation and the decision by one person, personally I'm glad to leave it at that and I sincerely wish VAR were discontinued. Let the officials make the decisions, right or wrong, us fans will just have to accept them and live with them.