This transfer window

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

I have nothing but sympathy for the backroom staff at this time. We are supposed to be preparing for the season ahead, with a settled group all on board and secure until at least January. I appreciate things are tight given the congestion of the season but Jesus a transfer window should never continue so deep into a season again!

We find ourselves in the league below, with a crop full of young players who for the most part performed well in the league above last season; earning themselves good reputations individually at least. It is undoubted that we are now one of the hardest hit clubs with rumours and general disarray in the team as a result of premier league interest and turning heads. Problems which of course are compounded by this overlapping transfer window.

We've had 'bids' (Cantwell and Aarons) coming in to the public eye on the very mornings prior to our last two league games, players going out to get interviews about their future behind the club's back, players being dropped out of the side completed due to poor conduct in training.

And on top of that all of that, for some reason we have fans seemingly rejecting the narrative coming from the club entirely. Even in leu of this clearly dire situation for the club. What do you guys want the club to actually do here?

Did we announce Barcelona's interest in Aarons before the Preston game? Did we organise Buendia's interview? Did Farke make up that Buendia and Cantwell hadn't been getting their heads down in training? Can we actually even keep players against their will with good money on the table? Does any championship club do that? Is it our fault if we sell players who don't want to play for the club? What messages do we therefore want to send to other young players looking to join or currently in the ranks? Why are we criticising the club for having to deal with this very difficult situation, when nothing has even happened yet?

This has nothing to do with 'we don't need to sell', I truly don't think we do, but how we can turn down good money for players who want to leave the club and aren't prepared to continue performing in training? What is the way around the current situation? We're simply in a very terrible spot right now until the window closes. That's it.

I'm sure if we end up losing a couple, or more, we will look to replace those players. However with the window nearing it's end it's going to be extra difficult to find ideal replacements. But can we at least reserve the criticism until we actually sell any of these players under par and then don't replace any of them?

As Farke said, I cannot wait for this bloody window to close!

Edited September 30, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Foxy2600 305]

I see in the news this morning LUFC going for a Bayern Munich U21 midfielder. Guess Emi's heart sank ......Cuissance 18.3m

[smooth 114]

I remember before all the money came in to football, transfers could happen throughout the season. Teams were prepared for it, well as well as they could be. But it wasn't as savage as multiple players leaving.

I think we are in a position because Cantwell, Godfrey, Aarons, Lewis, Buendia and Pukki are on the radar at the same time. Seasons before it would have been 1 or 2 of our players, so again it does highlight our success and also that when we wetn up in to the Prem by not buying other players to compliment these players we are now in a position where all are of interest as we are now in the Championship.

The club has to honour our philosophy at times which is selling players, when the value is right, as this is model we are proposing to new signings and as our ethos. So I have no problem with that, it is just that all have interest, or agents interested in striking when the iron is hot.

I am quite happy to sell players who deserve the opportunity, proven their worth and a transfer bid meets our expectation. All parties are happy, at the moment we may have players who do deserve the opportunity, proven their worth but at the moment no clubs bids have met our expectations. We will not want bad eggs and trouble with multiple players. 

With the window open it does give us time to negotiate with all parties and we have time, which is good. The right bid may come in, the player may see our position more clearly etc.

If this happened after the window had closed I would be more worried and frustrated. But right now we have time to let some of the dust settle and hopefully if a player wants to leave and the bid comes in we can move on, if not the player and club need to discuss both positions and note that playing in a first team and achieving is the best way to get that move they want and our clubs ethos is built around.

[Yellow and Green 334]

Agreed. We have signed a lot of players - we will need the window to close before Farke can begin to think about what our best eleven is and how they are going to play.

[king canary 7,654]

I don't think this window went the way Webber and co expected/wanted it to.

I imagine they were hoping to get big sales out of the way earlier in order to create a settled squad for the season. Instead cvoid and other circumstances have meant teams being more cautious and meaning we've had to wait and, in part, put our plans on hold.

Take Aarons- in an ideal world he's sold in early September, we sign a replacement and he's settled in before the season has gone too far. Instead, he's still here so we can't sign a replacement just in case he doesn't leave, although he likely will.

We got a good chunk of deals done early but I think Aarons, Buendia and Cantwell will lead to us having to make some moves right up to the deadline unfortunately. 

[Nuff Said 5,161]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I'm sure if we end up losing a couple, or more, we will look to replace those players. However with the window nearing it's end it's going to be extra difficult to find ideal replacements. But can we at least reserve the criticism until we actually sell any of these players under par and then don't replace any of them?

Logic and realism will get you nowhere Hank.

 

BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I don't think this window went the way Webber and co expected/wanted it to.

I imagine they were hoping to get big sales out of the way earlier in order to create a settled squad for the season. Instead cvoid and other circumstances have meant teams being more cautious and meaning we've had to wait and, in part, put our plans on hold.

Take Aarons- in an ideal world he's sold in early September, we sign a replacement and he's settled in before the season has gone too far. Instead, he's still here so we can't sign a replacement just in case he doesn't leave, although he likely will.

We got a good chunk of deals done early but I think Aarons, Buendia and Cantwell will lead to us having to make some moves right up to the deadline unfortunately. 

I agree with most of that. I suspect they factored in two sales, and perhaps a third, but no more. But what has almost certainly thrown things into confusion is two players in effect downing tools to demand a move. And our two flair creative players at that. So now all four of the remainers are supposedly in the sights of other clubs.

Added to which; the international window closes on Monday, so if we do lose Buendia and/or Cantwell after that, to an EPL club, we cannot shop overseas for a replacement. We would be forced to pay over the odds to an English club or get a loanee from the EPL.

[Branston Pickle 3,679]

I think the worst element in all this is the domestic and international windows not closing at the same time.  I can’t recall quite what the benefit of this was meant to be, but in the extension PL and EFL clubs can trade between each other but not PL to PL.  It currently feels this Is likely to be more bad than good for us!

Edited September 30, 2020 by Branston Pickle

[Mr.Carrow 378]

I think we can and must force unhappy players to stay unless an acceptable bid comes in. We have to remember that everything we do sets a precedent for other young players coming through. If we let Cantwell and Buendia go for £15m apiece just to quell the current stormy waters, Idah, Mumba and Martin would see their behaviour as a viable tactic in the future.

I also don't think we are in a particularly "terrible situation". We have some of the best talent in the UK on long contracts and a very strong squad behind them as back up. Maybe we should give credit to the club for creating this situation and ensuring that none of these players can walk away cheap which truly would be terrible.

[lake district canary 4,542]

I hate the window and logic says it ought to end before the start of the season so clubs can settle and get on with team planning, but I don't really think this window has been that bad. We have bought in 11 players and that is a huge amount to integrate and sort out and frankly if we sell three or four players, then all is good.  Do we want to bring in any more players if they go?  Maybe, but in looking at the squad, all we might need is one or two players in depending on who gets sold. Maybe a CB cover if Godfrey goes (I hope he doesn't), a right back if Aarons goes (hope he doesn't but it will be a surprise if he stays). Apart from that, surely we have enough midfielders to cope if Emi and Todd go?  

[Haus 259]

22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I hate the window and logic says it ought to end before the start of the season so clubs can settle and get on with team planning, but I don't really think this window has been that bad. We have bought in 11 players and that is a huge amount to integrate and sort out and frankly if we sell three or four players, then all is good.  Do we want to bring in any more players if they go?  Maybe, but in looking at the squad, all we might need is one or two players in depending on who gets sold. Maybe a CB cover if Godfrey goes (I hope he doesn't), a right back if Aarons goes (hope he doesn't but it will be a surprise if he stays). Apart from that, surely we have enough midfielders to cope if Emi and Todd go?  

Im not sure we do, especially with Dowell out till Xmas - We have lots of midfielders, but not many of that type of midfielder, someone creative who has vision and can provide a spark going forwards.   the way Buendia and Pukki link up would be hard to replicate. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

37 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

I think we can and must force unhappy players to stay unless an acceptable bid comes in. We have to remember that everything we do sets a precedent for other young players coming through. If we let Cantwell and Buendia go for £15m apiece just to quell the current stormy waters, Idah, Mumba and Martin would see their behaviour as a viable tactic in the future.

I also don't think we are in a particularly "terrible situation". We have some of the best talent in the UK on long contracts and a very strong squad behind them as back up. Maybe we should give credit to the club for creating this situation and ensuring that none of these players can walk away cheap which truly would be terrible.

Yep sorry, probably not a 'terrible situation' in the grand scheme of things. But if you compare to the place we could be in right now if the window was shut (I.e Aarons + at least one of Cantwell / Buendia still here and all happy to play for the club), then things are certainly a lot more stressful / difficult.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

7 minutes ago, Haus said:

Im not sure we do, especially with Dowell out till Xmas - We have lots of midfielders, but not many of that type of midfielder, someone creative who has vision and can provide a spark going forwards.   the way Buendia and Pukki link up would be hard to replicate. 

Agree with this. Would be concerned if we sold both Cantwell and Buendia without trying to bring someone in as a more accomplished signing. Especially with Dowell out for at least a few months. That leaves just Steiperman whose natural game is the number 10 spot. I would definitely be happy to see him given some game time there but he didn't even make the squad on Saturday even without Cantwell / Buendia / Dowell so hard to believe he is in Farke's plans if he's not even considered 4th choice there.

If Steiperman is now also nudged towards the door I will feel a little puzzled with just how many of our past successes we are moving away from - with what appears to be no obvious destination for these players to be moved on to and in some cases no replacement available either. Certainly for players like Steiperman, Vrancic and Trybull - I'm not sure why Trybull was frozen out quite so harshly. I believe all of these players could do well for us this season - particularly Marco and Mario.

I will reserve judgement on Steiperman until the next game or two but would be very disappointed if he doesn't make the 18 more if we don't have Cantwell / Buendia / Dowell once more.

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

Well I hope those who hate the window berate the club should we make any last minute signings to provide cover and strengthen the squad following the inevitable outgoings. But I suspect that will be OK and will be warmly applauded.

It's hardly a surprise our players are of interest elsewhere and Webber and Co. will I'm sure already have replacements lined up.

In any event we were told there was no need to sell, so all the club has to do is say 'no' and it wouldn't matter when the window closed.

 

[Haus 259]

I wonder if its possible to have a culture change, set expectations earlier, so when we were in the Championship before and people signed extensions for several years, be clear with them then that if we go up and come back down again we will expect people to stay for a year if asked to do so. 

If people are clear the whole way along of the situation then would that maybe help.  

These conversations could have been had before the premier League season too.  

Heres the plan, we will fight to stay up, but if we go down we expect people to stay and fight for promotion for another year. etc

If you can get people to buy in early and be on the same page could any of this drama be avoided ?

[seanthecanary 168]

25 minutes ago, Haus said:

I wonder if its possible to have a culture change, set expectations earlier, so when we were in the Championship before and people signed extensions for several years, be clear with them then that if we go up and come back down again we will expect people to stay for a year if asked to do so. 

If people are clear the whole way along of the situation then would that maybe help.  

These conversations could have been had before the premier League season too.  

Heres the plan, we will fight to stay up, but if we go down we expect people to stay and fight for promotion for another year. etc

If you can get people to buy in early and be on the same page could any of this drama be avoided ?

I don't know if it would help tbh.  You would like to think that a contract means something but in reality it means very little and playets have their heads turned.  Also, I would imagine the contract renewals realistically were nothing like you (and I) would want at all, certainly like the conversation you stated.  I would be willing to bet good money that Webber went to our Crown Jewels with new contracts extensions promising increased wages and that they would be allowed to move for the right money.  I doubt very much much that those players made a firm agreement to play Championship football again.

[seanthecanary 168]

 

6 hours ago, smooth said:

I remember before all the money came in to football, transfers could happen throughout the season. Teams were prepared for it, well as well as they could be. But it wasn't as savage as multiple players leaving.

I think the difference now though is that you have very little time to react and replace a player when a club comes in for one of your players.  If I remember rightly before the windows existed, you could sign players right up to March/April so there was not that time pressure to get a replacement in  If you get a huge offer for your best player out of the blue on deadline day, it leaves you in a tricky situation.

The way this window is working, for me, suits the big boys more than other clubs.  They are at far less risk of "bigger" clubs swooping in, getting their better players at the last minute, leaving them short of numbers and quality.

Edited September 30, 2020 by seanthecanary

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

Ploughing my way through the news.

Godfrey to Everton gaining pace. Emi linked abroad to two new clubs. Phil Hay of the Athletic claiming Leeds could come back for Todd once they finish this other deal off. Max still being linked elsewhere.  

*Sighs*

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

7 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I agree with most of that. I suspect they factored in two sales, and perhaps a third, but no more. But what has almost certainly thrown things into confusion is two players in effect downing tools to demand a move. And our two flair creative players at that. So now all four of the remainers are supposedly in the sights of other clubs.

Added to which; the international window closes on Monday, so if we do lose Buendia and/or Cantwell after that, to an EPL club, we cannot shop overseas for a replacement. We would be forced to pay over the odds to an English club or get a loanee from the EPL.

Just to add to this, looking more broadly, and based on no inside knowledge.

The current self-funding model means that in some seasons we will need to sell a player or two. I doubt this absolutely would have been the case this season, because of parachute payments. But became necessary because of the pandemic and the expected loss (probably since increased from the first estimate) of revenue.

I suspect that Webber et al factored in at least two sales. One to plug that hole and the other just because if you are a Championship club with five young talents attracting interest from some of the top clubs in European football then at least one will go.

Because you have the replacement signed up already, or lined up, or the offer is just too good to turn down, or because they make it plain there heart is set on a move, or some other reason, or any combination of the above.

What probably has thrown their calculations/expectations a bit off beam is the joint destabilising go-slow by those two creative players, one of whom they might have been prepared to let go but not both. And certainly not both if they end up losing a fourth out of Godfrey or Aarons.

[KiwiScot 1,459]

There are two transfer windows not forgetting the January one. Webber & Co must have a list of English based players they are looking at after the first one closes.

[paddycanary 539]

Lewis gone & Godfrey move looking very close. I've thought all along Cantwell would jump ship. I think squad competitiveness could handle those three departures. But then Aarons is probably the pick of the 4 currently. Could the club convince/persuade Aarons & Emi to stick around until at least January & then reassess? If 4 or all 5 go in this window, there's no spin to sugarcoat it. Even if a PL loan or two is rushed in to plug the gaps. 

With Byram & Dowell crocked and the recent records of our CBs, Farke would have a serious job on his hands. Perhaps Idah, Josh Martin, Sorensen, Mumba, Hondermarck... might help to mitigate from within, but hopeful 'ifs' are far removed from what fans deserve after being asked to swallow last season's half-hearted attempt in the PL. 

It can't be coming as a shock that the "jewels" would be attracting attention towards the end of the window so you would assume Webber & Co have prepared for these eventualities. Winning games is the only real tonic to keep fans onside, but it gets very hard without your best players. This division is relentless. 

[king canary 7,654]

13 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Just to add to this, looking more broadly, and based on no inside knowledge.

The current self-funding model means that in some seasons we will need to sell a player or two. I doubt this absolutely would have been the case this season, because of parachute payments. But became necessary because of the pandemic and the expected loss (probably since increased from the first estimate) of revenue.

 

I suspect that Webber et al factored in at least two sales. One to plug that hole and the other just because if you are a Championship club with five young talents attracting interest from some of the top clubs in European football then at least one will go.

 

Because you have the replacement signed up already, or lined up, or the offer is just too good to turn down, or because they make it plain there heart is set on a move, or some other reason, or any combination of the above.

 

What probably has thrown their calculations/expectations a bit off beam is the joint destabilising go-slow by those two creative players, one of whom they might have been prepared to let go but not both. And certainly not both if they end up losing a fourth out of Godfrey or Aarons.

Webber is a smart guy- I'd imagine he'd have had plans for 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 sales. I also don't think someone like Emi or Todd looking to push a move would be a shock to him or Farke.

I don't think the amount of sales or interest is the issue- it is more the timing of them. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

17 hours ago, seanthecanary said:

 

I think the difference now though is that you have very little time to react and replace a player when a club comes in for one of your players.  If I remember rightly before the windows existed, you could sign players right up to March/April so there was not that time pressure to get a replacement in  If you get a huge offer for your best player out of the blue on deadline day, it leaves you in a tricky situation.

The way this window is working, for me, suits the big boys more than other clubs.  They are at far less risk of "bigger" clubs swooping in, getting their better players at the last minute, leaving them short of numbers and quality.

The current window arrangements are a disgrace and whats particularly galling is that they were sold on the basis that they would help the EFL (presumably by giving cash strapped EFL clubs the chance to flog players to the premier league clubs) but they are horrendously unhelpful. Before covid it was supposed to go the other way with the window closing before the season starts to avoid all this disruption. Why the premier league have another 2 weeks to pick over the bones of EFL clubs after the main window closes is particularly questionable. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

14 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Just to add to this, looking more broadly, and based on no inside knowledge.

The current self-funding model means that in some seasons we will need to sell a player or two. I doubt this absolutely would have been the case this season, because of parachute payments. But became necessary because of the pandemic and the expected loss (probably since increased from the first estimate) of revenue.

 

I suspect that Webber et al factored in at least two sales. One to plug that hole and the other just because if you are a Championship club with five young talents attracting interest from some of the top clubs in European football then at least one will go.

 

Because you have the replacement signed up already, or lined up, or the offer is just too good to turn down, or because they make it plain there heart is set on a move, or some other reason, or any combination of the above.

 

What probably has thrown their calculations/expectations a bit off beam is the joint destabilising go-slow by those two creative players, one of whom they might have been prepared to let go but not both. And certainly not both if they end up losing a fourth out of Godfrey or Aarons.

Having seen Dowell play and the type of player he is I'm pretty convinced he was brought in witha  view to replacing Catwell or Emi. Most likely the former as the two players are very similar.

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

16 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The current window arrangements are a disgrace and whats particularly galling is that they were sold on the basis that they would help the EFL (presumably by giving cash strapped EFL clubs the chance to flog players to the premier league clubs) but they are horrendously unhelpful. Before covid it was supposed to go the other way with the window closing before the season starts to avoid all this disruption. Why the premier league have another 2 weeks to pick over the bones of EFL clubs after the main window closes is particularly questionable. 

I generally agree but I think part of the reasoning is that it also enables EPL clubs to get rid of surplus players (which they are going to have) on loan to Championship clubs. If we do lose more players after Monday I suspect we will be looking at such loan deals, as well as buying from other EFL clubs.