New Tory Leader

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

A "vacant kettle" - ready to be filled with any ideas convenient to her at the time. That's how she has been described. And last night she couldn't even refer to Macron, our nearest ally, as a friend or a foe - "The Jury's out" for our Liz. Just appealing to whatever audience is there at the time. But no statesmanship. No appeal to the outside world. 

Sunak appears far more suitable and at least is grasping the reality better. There is a decent Toynbee article today about her most ardent and loyal supporter. Older and from the affluent southern suburbs. He wants not one U turn ever. He wants a Thatcher Mk 2. Sunak is seen as a slick PR man, too tied up in focus groups.

Truss will be more divisive than Johnson it appears. Just what we need after Brexit and the damage that has caused.

The France comment is truly dreadful. That comment alone show's she is completely unsuitable for ANY position in government.

Clearly she just mouths off without any thought as to the consequences.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

24 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

The France comment is truly dreadful. That comment alone show's she is completely unsuitable for ANY position in government.

Clearly she just mouths off without any thought as to the consequences.

But.....but.......but.......we produce more kinds of cheese than the French! 😉

[Mr Apples 1,320]

The poor Tory party members, what a choice to make...between a stinking rich, vaguely competent candidate who has one of those foreign names, or a obviously moronic and unsuitable for office Thatcher tribute act who doesn't have one of those foreign names. 🤔🤣

I wonder what will swing it for them?

Apples

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

15 minutes ago, Mr Apples said:

The poor Tory party members, what a choice to make...between a stinking rich, vaguely competent candidate who has one of those foreign names, or a obviously moronic and unsuitable for office Thatcher tribute act who doesn't have one of those foreign names. 🤔🤣

I wonder what will swing it for them?

Apples

Tax cuts, robbing the poor to pay for the rich, immunity for Johnson and Windsor getting the next quidditch world cup

[Herman 9,777]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

But.....but.......but.......we produce more kinds of cheese than the French! 😉

C'est une disgrace. 

[sonyc 5,526]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

The France comment is truly dreadful. That comment alone show's she is completely unsuitable for ANY position in government.

Clearly she just mouths off without any thought as to the consequences.

Yes. And she is our current Foreign Secretary!

Macron has replied in the last half hour. Meanwhile Truss states her words were light hearted! 

 

"Britain is a friend of France, I don’t doubt that for a second,” he said when asked about the remarks by Ms Truss, who is widely expected to become Britain’s next prime minister.

But he warned: “If France and Britain cannot say whether they are friends or enemies...then we are headed for serious problems.

”The foreign secretary has been accused of a “woeful” lack of judgement after she told Tory members at a hustings in Norwich on Thursday that she was undecided as to whether he was a “friend or foe”.

 

The new world of non truths.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/macron-liz-truss-response-uk-pm-b2153314.html

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by sonyc

[Well b back 3,208]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

The France comment is truly dreadful. That comment alone show's she is completely unsuitable for ANY position in government.

Clearly she just mouths off without any thought as to the consequences.

And apparently the majority of the members present cheered loudly at these comments. 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

13 minutes ago, Well b back said:

And apparently the majority of the members present cheered loudly at these comments. 

 

Shameful. You're best out of it WBB.

[kick it off 1,952]

5 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

This. We all expect some spin in politics but the unashamed lying from this bunch of Tories is awful. They deserve to go into the political wilderness for decades.

Absolutely. The profteering with contracts for their mates during Covid was utterly debased.

We all remember Alistair Campbell's "Good day to bury bad news" comment, but the current Westminster incumbents used a global pandemic in which thousands of UK citizens died, to give BILLIONS of our taxpayer cash to their mates. They didn't even have the decency to hide it (makes a change), just open, blasé corruption, whilst our hospitals were overrun with people dying.... and somehow the Tory voters didn't even seem to notice.

I've never liked the Tories, and I've never made a secret of that, but this government since Cameron stepped down has been by far the most corrupt, unethical, dishonest and absolutely pathetic bunch of politicians we have ever seen. Cameron had a lot of faults and I disagreed with a lot of what he did, but he was light years ahead of this shower.

Johnson and Farage have done an unbelievable amount of damage to British politics, and the country as a whole.

Edited August 26, 2022 by kick it off

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

And apparently the majority of the members present cheered loudly at these comments. 

 

"Bleddy frogs, saved them in the war, what what. Agincourt should have taught 'em a lesson I say."

[1902 1,167]

On 25/08/2022 at 18:33, Naturalcynic said:

This thread, and to be honest most of the other threads too, just seem to be a vehicle for the usual suspects to come on here to signal just how much they hate the Conservatives, particularly Liz Truss, although I’m sure it would be the same if Rishi Sunak was ahead in the polls.  Don’t you all get just a little bit bored with repeating day after day just how much you loathe the corrupt self-serving Tory scum?

It's clear as day that I'm a Labour voter, but I don't hate Tories and I don't hate this lot. What I will say is that they are spectacularly incompetent and have become increasingly divorced from reality and standards.

Seriously, go and have a look at the list of cabinets and shadow cabinet members between 1979-2016. Then look at the current crop of conservatives. It's a real eye opener.

I can respect other political views, I understand that societal question are not simple, however Liz Truss does not represent the kind of Conservative party that I have grown up with.

Sometimes I couldn't stand their actions, but they were grounded in the real world. To say you can grow your way out of an inflationary crisis and the  energy supply crisis underpinning it with tax cuts is just nonsense.

To say you are not sure if our military ally (who we have multiple defence treaties with) is a friend or a foe is insanity. Especially when we have real geopolitical challenges who do not share any form of democratic values.

Its not the politics and economics of a British government, it's the politics and economics of Erdogan and it's flirting with disaster.

[Naturalcynic 631]

7 minutes ago, 1902 said:

It's clear as day that I'm a Labour voter, but I don't hate Tories and I don't hate this lot. What I will say is that they are spectacularly incompetent and have become increasingly divorced from reality and standards.

Seriously, go and have a look at the list of cabinets and shadow cabinet members between 1979-2016. Then look at the current crop of conservatives. It's a real eye opener.

I can respect other political views, I understand that societal question are not simple, however Liz Truss does not represent the kind of Conservative party that I have grown up with.

Sometimes I couldn't stand their actions, but they were grounded in the real world. To say you can grow your way out of an inflationary crisis and the  energy supply crisis underpinning it with tax cuts is just nonsense.

To say you are not sure if our military ally (who we have multiple defence treaties with) is a friend or a foe is insanity. Especially when we have real geopolitical challenges who do not share any form of democratic values.

Its not the politics and economics of a British government, it's the politics and economics of Erdogan and it's flirting with disaster.

That’s a reasonable and coherent comment with which I have no problem whatsoever.  I’m not overly impressed by either candidate either and agree that the parliamentary Conservative Party is currently at a low point and sadly lacking in the wisdom from the elder statesmen that it always used to have.  That said, exactly the same can be said about the current Labour Party with its shadow cabinet lacking any gravitas whatsoever.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Naturalcynic

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

43 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

That’s a reasonable and coherent comment with which I have no problem whatsoever.  I’m not overly impressed by either candidate either and agree that the parliamentary Conservative Party is currently at a low point and sadly lacking in the wisdom from the elder statesmen that it always used to have.  That said, exactly the same can be said about the current Labour Party with its shadow cabinet lacking any gravitas whatsoever.

Can you explain what this means? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

That’s a reasonable and coherent comment with which I have no problem whatsoever.  I’m not overly impressed by either candidate either and agree that the parliamentary Conservative Party is currently at a low point and sadly lacking in the wisdom from the elder statesmen that it always used to have.  That said, exactly the same can be said about the current Labour Party with its shadow cabinet lacking any gravitas whatsoever.

Gravitas is not the right word at all. SKS is short on memory perhaps. Conveniently forgetting it wasn't long ago he talked of renationalising energy and water but now says no. There is even more reason now and would be a vote winner as well as expedient.

I had our prospective Labour candidate round this afternoon. He wondered why I had resigned from the Party. I told him fair and square I didn't want SKS as my leader. I appreciated Corbyn's policies much more and it was only Momentum, that by dominating the Executive, prevented a chance of success. That and the prevarication over Brexit. Return to more socialist policies and I would join again.

[1902 1,167]

36 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Gravitas is not the right word at all. SKS is short on memory perhaps. Conveniently forgetting it wasn't long ago he talked of renationalising energy and water but now says no. There is even more reason now and would be a vote winner as well as expedient.

I had our prospective Labour candidate round this afternoon. He wondered why I had resigned from the Party. I told him fair and square I didn't want SKS as my leader. I appreciated Corbyn's policies much more and it was only Momentum, that by dominating the Executive, prevented a chance of success. That and the prevarication over Brexit. Return to more socialist policies and I would join again.

Return to Corbyn and his ilk and I'd leave. They were electoral poison and when you see his reaction to Ukraine you can see exactly why.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

10 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Return to Corbyn and his ilk and I'd leave. They were electoral poison and when you see his reaction to Ukraine you can see exactly why.

In some respects I'm grateful he's not leader now, when nationalisation of many sectors is probably going to become a lot more popular. Perhaps Labour can start to champion these economic thoughts again without embracing the more toxic quisling anti-nuke/friends of terrorist tendencies of the left of the party. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 hours ago, 1902 said:

Return to Corbyn and his ilk and I'd leave. They were electoral poison and when you see his reaction to Ukraine you can see exactly why.

So do you really think constantly arming Ukraine is going to stop the war?

[Naturalcynic 631]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

So do you really think constantly arming Ukraine is going to stop the war?

Seemingly you advocate appeasing dictators.  Not sure that’d have worked in 1939.

[1902 1,167]

11 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

So do you really think constantly arming Ukraine is going to stop the war?

Do you think that the Ukraine doesn't have the right to defend itself? Do you think that we should tell the Ukrainians how much land they should give up? Would you have been one of those who would have told the Spanish Republicans that they couldn't get arms to fight Franco because 'more arms just prolonge war'?

If you think there's nothing worth fighting for then that's your prerogative, but you are not reflective of the British public and I'm pretty glad that you're a minority.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

On 26/08/2022 at 11:50, Yellow Fever said:

The France comment is truly dreadful. That comment alone show's she is completely unsuitable for ANY position in government.

Clearly she just mouths off without any thought as to the consequences.

You say it's dreadful; I would say it mirrored Macron's own challenging remarks about the UK/French relations. I don't think there's anything wrong with openly saying you really don't know where you stand with someone if that's the case.  

I don't see why Macron questioning should get a free pass and the Truss questioning be condemned when France has actually indulged in some majorly heated attacks on the UK government over the last few years, some of which, like the threat to cut power to Jersey, were bang out of order. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/30/half-friends-is-not-a-concept-uk-should-decide-who-its-allies-are-says-macron

0verall though, I look forward to when diplomacy starts being carried out in private instead of through newspaper front pages... in both directions. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,777]

I don't think a sensible question and a right-wing soundbite are the same thing. Maybe stop trying to "both sides" everything?

[Naturalcynic 631]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

I don't think a sensible question and a right-wing soundbite are the same thing. Maybe stop trying to "both sides" everything?

Or maybe stop criticising comments by UK politicians whilst simultaneously excusing similar comments by French politicians?

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

31 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Or maybe stop criticising comments by UK politicians whilst simultaneously excusing similar comments by French politicians?

Do you have any examples of this?

[Herman 9,777]

40 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Or maybe stop criticising comments by UK politicians whilst simultaneously excusing similar comments by French politicians?

I'll criticise who I like, especially the ones pretending to run my own country.

[Mr Apples 1,320]

58 minutes ago, Herman said:

I'll criticise who I like, especially the ones pretending to run my own country.

Remember Herman, those libertarian freedom fighters on the right will defend to the death your right to free speech...but only as long as your free speech agrees with the utter tripe they spout of course...all other non-approved free speech is treasonous, leftist bile which must be clamped down on. 🤔🤪🤣

Apples

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

 

24 minutes ago, Mr Apples said:

Remember Herman, those libertarian freedom fighters on the right will defend to the death your right to free speech...but only as long as your free speech agrees with the utter tripe they spout of course...all other non-approved free speech is treasonous, leftist bile which must be clamped down on. 🤔🤪🤣

Apples

...says the guy in the big group on the forum that shouts down and ridicules anyone who puts a different perspective. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

I don't think a sensible question and a right-wing soundbite are the same thing. Maybe stop trying to "both sides" everything?

As stated previously, there have been plenty of examples of inflammatory actions, responses, and sheer irresponsibility coming from Macron's government. 

• Threats to cut power to Jersey over a small-scale dispute on issuing of fishing licenses, completely shortcutting legal and diplomatic channels
• Outright insults, singling out the UK as 'the fifth wheel' on the AUKUS carriage in response to the collapse of the French submarine sale to Australia
• Lobbying the EU explicitly by letter from their PM to take a hard line against the UK.

That's just a few examples off the top of my head; it's every bit as reasonable for the UK government to  openly question France's position on the UK as vice versa. Personally, I'm very pleased and reassured to hear Macron's positive and tempered response to her legitimate comment. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mr Apples 1,320]

53 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

...says the guy in the big group on the forum that shouts down and ridicules anyone who puts a different perspective. 

Playing the victim card, but not disagreeing with the point made? 🤔🤫🤣

Apples

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

...says the guy in the big group on the forum that shouts down and ridicules anyone who puts a different perspective. 

I think you have to accept that there are more to the left posting than the right. His point was well made and legible. I didn't note any ridicule but just sarcasm. Some posters do like to put looney before left. Its old tabloid headline hunting and not accurate at all.

And lets not forget, you are not averse to insulting other posters.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think you have to accept that there are more to the left posting than the right. His point was well made and legible. I didn't note any ridicule but just sarcasm. Some posters do like to put looney before left. Its old tabloid headline hunting and not accurate at all.

And lets not forget, you are not averse to insulting other posters.

He was attacking a straw man. If people argue the point then I'll stick to that; I'm equally okay with insulting people that want to try and mock or ridicule in the absence of reasonable arguments.