New Tory Leader

[Well b back 3,208]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

...says the guy in the big group on the forum that shouts down and ridicules anyone who puts a different perspective. 

Says the man who ridicules and puts down anyone who disagrees with his opinions. I see you have even resorted to name calling on some threads.

Try practicing what you preach and just accept that there are a large number of people ( especially in the North ) that voted Brexit and Johnson, that now realise we made a huge mistake, and that is based on facts of what’s happening, not opinion.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

11 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Says the man who ridicules and puts down anyone who disagrees with his opinions. I see you have even resorted to name calling on some threads.

Try practicing what you preach and just accept that there are a large number of people ( especially in the North ) that voted Brexit and Johnson, that now realise we made a huge mistake, and that is based on facts of what’s happening, not opinion.

Give an example of me ridiculing anybody. If other people want to hurl insults, I'll always be happy to fling back. 

I voted remain, but I live with the consequences of having been on the losing side of the argument, including my titre de séjour, and get on with it, trying to figure out what the best way forward might be.

Glad you recognise your mistake is your fault and your own responsibility now, at least. It's a sign you're growing up. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Well b back 3,208]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Give an example of me ridiculing anybody. If other people want to hurl insults, I'll always be happy to fling back. 

I voted remain, but I live with the consequences of having been on the losing side of the argument, including my titre de séjour, and get on with it, trying to figure out what the best way forward might be.

Glad you recognise your mistake is your fault and your own responsibility now, at least. It's a sign you're growing up. 

Your reply is a good example lol

[Well b back 3,208]

@littleyellowbirdie

Certainly a lot more weight than the anonymous people responding in the comments section. 

think it through for yourself?

utter rubbish. 

Until I got to the last line I was reading that in awe, thinking you'd written it yourself. 

You really are being ridiculous. 

And I'm nothing like JRM you utter twünt.

talking sh1t3. 

 

Go f*ckyourself. 
There’s one or two even though you only wanted one.

[sonyc 5,523]

12 hours ago, Well b back said:

@littleyellowbirdie

Certainly a lot more weight than the anonymous people responding in the comments section. 

think it through for yourself?

utter rubbish. 

Until I got to the last line I was reading that in awe, thinking you'd written it yourself. 

You really are being ridiculous. 

And I'm nothing like JRM you utter twünt.

talking sh1t3. 

 

 

Go f*ckyourself. 
There’s one or two even though you only wanted one.

Hi WBB, I think when posters are personal it's an attempt to shut you up. I'm always amazed how expressing a view, an outrage if you like, about behaviour (or more often the spoken words by some of our present government ministers), is so disliked. It feels a real threat to question. Yesterday (or may have been the day before) it was suggested to me I take a lie down and maybe a nice little tea 😂. I did. Felt better for it. But it was a lovely example of passive aggressive behaviour. Can you imagine someone saying that to your face (at a match or in a pub or somewhere)? Would someone say that?

It's an attempt to attack any liberal view, particularly against the positions held by the more right wing of politics. Who really cares about what maybe 5 to 10 people on a politics thread think? Well, one or two do. Your Paul Moy's, the Jools' of this world. 

I realise it goes two ways too because people give what they get. But ultimately there is little point in arguing. Nothing said will change an opinion. That doesn't mean though people shouldn't continue to say what they feel. 

It's a great shame because a forum thread needs some kind of diversity and balance (my opinion) to keep it alive. Otherwise it's just a Twitter echo chamber of your own choosing.

I tend to watch and go quiet if things get nasty and return when things have calmed. Or, I try and post more light hearted items to create some humour (often a distraction or deflection but it works for most). I suppose it depends how sensitive you are. Quite so for me - but I've always wanted to be so. It means you get a better quality of life. Downsides for sure but much bigger upsides (or uplands to use a famous Brexit term).

Anyway, speaking of Brexit - to my favourite former Brexiter👍👍 - still not met or spoken to anyone else yet who has changed his / her mind over voting Brexit. I have met Tories though who will not be voting Tory again. I think it's healthy to change your view. It's a real enjoyment for me if I find I've been wrong about something - because it's a revelation and it tells yourself how closed off you were (but no more). Maybe I'm a bit weird (actually I am) but I love being wrong!

Finally, I would say that reading comments and views by 'old school' Conservatives provides a very good balance - Rory Stewart and a few others I'm thinking. 

In terms of people being insulting I think it's best just to leave their comments there, in writing - but unanswered. 

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

I think this is spot on!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2022/aug/28/ben-jennings-on-liz-trusss-plans-to-tackle-the-cost-of-living-crisis-cartoon

Edited August 29, 2022 by Yellow Fever
Definitely need help heating my pool!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

On 27/08/2022 at 11:10, keelansgrandad said:

So do you really think constantly arming Ukraine is going to stop the war?

When the war was caused by Russian aggression, then the only way to stop the war is to stop them.

It's as if we haven't all learned the lessons of Poland back in 1939.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

21 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

When the war was caused by Russian aggression, then the only way to stop the war is to stop them.

It's as if we haven't all learned the lessons of Poland back in 1939.

I would have hoped we had moved on from there. I have no love for what Russia has done. You simply cannot invade another country without good cause. But Ukraine was warned by the West. SO Ukraine and the West knew it was going to happen.

So rather than Poland in 1939 I would have thought Munich 1938 was a more a salient date.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

I would have hoped we had moved on from there. I have no love for what Russia has done. You simply cannot invade another country without good cause. But Ukraine was warned by the West. SO Ukraine and the West knew it was going to happen.

So rather than Poland in 1939 I would have thought Munich 1938 was a more a salient date.

Failed appeasement from asking a country to give up part of its sovereign territory for no reason beyond power-crazy dictators wanting that land?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Failed appeasement from asking a country to give up part of its sovereign territory for no reason beyond power-crazy dictators wanting that land?

So what stopped us stopping him before thousands started being killed and murdered?

We are full of talk but scared to back it up.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

So what stopped us stopping him before thousands started being killed and murdered?

We are full of talk but scared to back it up.

That's why many countries are sending weapons. I don't think this is a case where people are "full of talk". For once something resembling support is being provided.

Munich is a prime example of a mistake. This Ukraine episode is a prime example of learning from the mistakes of Munich (and subsequently leaving Polish allies to their own devices especially around the time of the Warsaw Uprising).

Putin has no justification for invasion whatsoever, regardless of his smoke and mirrors re. NATO membership. He should be in the Hague if there's any semblance of justice going on.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

That's why many countries are sending weapons. I don't think this is a case where people are "full of talk". For once something resembling support is being provided.

Munich is a prime example of a mistake. This Ukraine episode is a prime example of learning from the mistakes of Munich (and subsequently leaving Polish allies to their own devices especially around the time of the Warsaw Uprising).

Putin has no justification for invasion whatsoever, regardless of his smoke and mirrors re. NATO membership. He should be in the Hague if there's any semblance of justice going on.

Of course he has no justification and he needs arresting, tried and executing. But just repeating that to him makes no difference. Kennedy knew the way to treat the Russians in 1962. What is the point of might if you don't back it up?

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Of course he has no justification and he needs arresting, tried and executing. But just repeating that to him makes no difference. Kennedy knew the way to treat the Russians in 1962. What is the point of might if you don't back it up?

I think the potential nuclear side of things, not to mention that Putin may be bonkers, is an obvious sticking point. Besides, we've also got plenty of recent history of wiping out dictators and the aftermath also being farcical. Iraq and Libya are two obvious recent examples where the resulting power vacuum was probably even worse than the dictator in power.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

In terms of people being insulting I think it's best just to leave their comments there, in writing - but unanswered. 

I was going down that route yesterday - ignoring nonsense on a yes a pointed comment (which you at least understood) - until I got feedback not it seems on my original comment but on a second hand 'spun' interpretation. At that point you feel you have to correct and spell out the facts.

However in general I agree with you - sometimes best to leave daft responses 'hanging' and walk away.  

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I think the potential nuclear side of things, not to mention that Putin may be bonkers, is an obvious sticking point. Besides, we've also got plenty of recent history of wiping out dictators and the aftermath also being farcical. Iraq and Libya are two obvious recent examples where the resulting power vacuum was probably even worse than the dictator in power.

Definitely. The end game is never considered.

I don't believe Russia would go nuclear. As mad as Putin may be, I am sure there are others behind the scenes who would not let him go that far. Another mystery heart attack (or pillow over the head) is their normal way of regime change.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

22 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Definitely. The end game is never considered.

I don't believe Russia would go nuclear. As mad as Putin may be, I am sure there are others behind the scenes who would not let him go that far. Another mystery heart attack (or pillow over the head) is their normal way of regime change.

I don't think so either, but if you miscalculate that...

You've just summed up with your last sentence why we should keep arming Ukraine. The longer they beat the Russian army back, the more pressure it will exert on Putin where possible.

[sonyc 5,523]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I was going down that route yesterday - ignoring nonsense on a yes a pointed comment (which you at least understood) - until I got feedback not it seems on my original comment but on a second hand 'spun' interpretation. At that point you feel you have to correct and spell out the facts.

However in general I agree with you - sometimes best to leave daft responses 'hanging' and walk away.  

It often requires great self discipline not to reply to stuff YF😅. I should know, I fail enough.

The last few years have been grim enough. I would say the worst for a good while. These kinds of things are bound to divide people (Brexit, a populist government, a pandemic, a war close to home, climate catastrophes, economic stress....)

Yet I do recall happier periods. I'm not sure about "halcyon days" but we had a more serious government. Cameron and austerity, May and then Johnson have not improved things for the country.

Truss will unfortunately add to our woes and it could well be Johnson is planning a return before Truss ends her tenure (am reading he is delighted she is likely to win...and it's clear why...surround yourself with poor quality colleagues and you look a lot better).

 

This was from the Telegraph for example. A bit of journalistic licence but you get the point. I recall when you posted that we have become "punch drunk" with continuous outrage.

When Britain was “blissfully boring”

August used to be “silly season”, says Michael Deacon in The Daily Telegraph. With no actual news to report, the papers were filled with stories of comically little consequence. In 2003, we learned that the most people you could fit inside a phone box was 14; three years later, the big news was that “cows moo with regional accents”. These non-stories were often ridiculed. “But how we miss them now.” This summer, everything is deadly serious: strikes, inflation, NHS chaos, “seas full of sewage”. It’s miserable. How I long to read about “a parrot that can sing The Archers theme tune”.

Still, our age of “permacrisis” does have one upside. “It’ll finally teach us to appreciate how lucky we are. Or at least, how lucky we used to be.” I reckon the years between 1998 and 2001 – “after Diana, but before 9/11” – were “the single happiest period in British history”. Not because anything particularly good happened, but because “relatively little bad happened”. The economy was ticking along. Our politics was stable, other than Peter Mandelson “resigning every two weeks”. There was so little going on that Tony Blair, “the actual prime minister”, publicly urged the writers of Coronation Street to change an unpopular storyline. Truly, these were “halcyon days”. Here’s hoping that sometime soon, life in Britain will be as “blissfully boring once again”.

[sonyc 5,523]

She still managed to talk to GB News though.

A bit of scrutiny. A sign of things to come.

 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Maybe Liz needs to borrow BoJo's fridge?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Maybe Liz needs to borrow BoJo's fridge?

Is there any French cheese in it?

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

Saw this and thought it wouldn't surprise me  - especially if you weren't one of Truss's "On holiday from reality" gang - quite possibly several others too that still have some integrity left and can get out now with it mostly intact before the final implosion (Sunak etc). Will others 'cross the floor' or become independent?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/30/lib-dems-get-ready-for-possible-byelection-if-michael-gove-quits

Then we have the likely entirely forced ones as well - Uxbridge and South Ruislip and other places where MPs are up to their neck in it. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

Just when you thought it couldn't get even more gloomy - 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/goldman-sachs-says-uk-inflation-is-at-risk-of-topping-22

22% Inflation.

Thud - the sound of Truss hitting the ground (& not running).

Edited August 30, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Reports that she would make JRM Business Secretary. What business? The zombie Government we have in place is doing its best to close them.

Well, apart from EPL Clubs who are going to spend their way through austerity.

[Mr Apples 1,320]

JRM, Minister for reopening the pits, developing the UK's self-sufficiency in steam-power and sending urchins back up chimneys for tuppence-ha'penny (when Imperial Units are reinstated). 🤣

Apples

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Mr Apples said:

JRM, Minister for reopening the pits, developing the UK's self-sufficiency in steam-power and sending urchins back up chimneys for tuppence-ha'penny (when Imperial Units are reinstated). 🤣

Apples

Don't forget rejoining the Gold Standard

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

I really hope the markets have priced in a Truss premiership. 

Pound in the 1.15s vs the dollar now.

[sonyc 5,523]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I really hope the markets have priced in a Truss premiership. 

Pound in the 1.15s vs the dollar now.

I've wondered the same as I've been watching. I reckon that what we've seen in the last week definitely means her victory is being priced in. The pound was up at almost 1.20 earlier in the last month.

See this from a short while ago:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/traders-are-predicting-losses-in-uk-markets-if-liz-truss-wins-1.1794957

Markets are not keen on 'populism' is one statement that was highlighted for me. We now just wait to see if her talk is bluster to appeal to her selectorate. Or whether she means what she has said so far. I fear the latter.

More years of purgatory?

 

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

7 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I've wondered the same as I've been watching. I reckon that what we've seen in the last week definitely means her victory is being priced in. The pound was up at almost 1.20 earlier in the last month.

See this from a short while ago:

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/traders-are-predicting-losses-in-uk-markets-if-liz-truss-wins-1.1794957

Markets are not keen on 'populism' is one statement that was highlighted for me. We now just wait to see if her talk is bluster to appeal to her selectorate. Or whether she means what she has said so far. I fear the latter.

More years of purgatory?

 

Sunak with at least his 'city' background knows only too well what's likely to befall Truss' government and her borrowing policies. Reality returns from its summer holiday to see what a mess the kids have of the house. Even Corbyn, who would have borrowed, would have invested it in the countries assets.

I wonder what the odds of her of lasting 90 days - Christmas even.

It actually might be a godsend in disguise - the total & unavoidable rupture and failure of these Tory/Truss fantasy policies. At least we'll be able to rebuild following such a clean reset as opposed to just staggering on.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

36 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Sunak with at least his 'city' background knows only too well what's likely to befall Truss' government and her borrowing policies. Reality returns from its summer holiday to see what a mess the kids have of the house. Even Corbyn, who would have borrowed, would have invested it in the countries assets.

I wonder what the odds of her of lasting 90 days - Christmas even.

It actually might be a godsend in disguise - the total & unavoidable rupture and failure of these Tory/Truss fantasy policies. At least we'll be able to rebuild following such a clean reset as opposed to just staggering on.

Whilst I completely agree with @sonyc that any time with Truss as PM will be purgatory, I too have been wondering how long she will last. Leaving aside the fact that she is a clueless idiot who clearly hasn't got a scooby how to tackle the serious problems facing the country or indeed any principles or beliefs to guide her policy making, she isn't exactly popular amongst her own MPs.

She may have convinced the aged dimwits that mostly make up the Tory Party membership, but she only managed 50 votes in the first round of MP ballots - so she is the first choice of only 14% of her MPs, hardly a ringing endorsement in fact hardly an endorsement at all.

She remained third all the way through until a really nasty smear campaign against Penny Mordaunt by both her team and the Daily Fail finally managed to just squeeze her into the second position - even for the Tories that was a pretty unsavoury episode and of course the race between Sunak and Truss has also been pretty unedifying, not just a clash of personalities but totally differing policies (if you can believe anything they say 😄).

Since Truss seems certain to win and around half the Tory MPs seem to think, like Cummings, that she is completely bonkers it makes you wonder how far, and for how long, most Tory MPs will follow her into electoral oblivion.