Todd Can’twell

[king canary 7,609]

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Emi can be exciting and Todd can look good, but there are some other exciting players in the mix. 

There is going to be speculation on these two players right up to the deadline in the transfer window, which is not good for them or us. Thankfully its only four league games away, so hopefully all issues will be settled by then, but given what we have brought in, I would prefer to see new players take on the mantle and give us a stronger overall midfield, rather than one that proved a bit powder puff last season.  To my mind, Cantwell and Buendia have to prove themselves all over again in the midst of some excellent looking signings.

There isn't room for all of them and Dowell, Skipp, Sorenson, Mclean, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Stiepermann (to name a few!) offer plenty.  I'd love to think Emi can reproduce the form of the last championship season and that Cantwell can develop more, but I do think that for them and for us, they both might be better off having a fresh challenge elsewhere.

As usual, I'm very glad you're not in charge of our transfers...

[Rabbit hole 31]

Welcome to the Rabbit hole 🐰 

[lake district canary 4,537]

45 minutes ago, king canary said:

As usual, I'm very glad you're not in charge of our transfers...

Every one of those midfielders I quoted has what it takes to challenge Emi and Cantwell for a place in the team.  The two of them are not wonder kids any more, they have to produce week in week out and they did not do that last season.  If we can move them on, then so be it. I don't want to sell any player really, but common sense says that we have to cash in on players when they are at the height of their value.  The way the club is set up it has to happen - and as I said, we have real competition in midfield - and so we progress as a club. 

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

We have two proven high-level performers, the other "challengers" are to some extent an unknown quantity. Given the choice I'd stick with the tried and tested rather than hoping the others turn out ok. That's of course divorced from any financial consideration (and player desires).

It may be though, that if we keep them for another year, market prices could go up and their value could increase further.

[Canary dwarf 221]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Every one of those midfielders I quoted has what it takes to challenge Emi and Cantwell for a place in the team.  The two of them are not wonder kids any more, they have to produce week in week out and they did not do that last season.  If we can move them on, then so be it. I don't want to sell any player really, but common sense says that we have to cash in on players when they are at the height of their value.  The way the club is set up it has to happen - and as I said, we have real competition in midfield - and so we progress as a club. 

I think we will lose one of them, which one I don't know but the sqaud is big enough and strong enough too cope.however I think too lose both would be disastrous, I just hope max stays.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

16 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

This is the interesting point in all of this. He'll be into the last year of his contract next summer; if he isn't willing to sign a new contract then it probably makes sense to cash in on him now while his stock is still high from his performances last season.

Obviously I have no idea whether he's been offered a new contract and/or wants to sign one, but in the event that he won't sign and there's interest from PL clubs, it's probably the wisest course of action all round.

With less than 2 years left, and with him being worth probably £20m, he almost certainly would have been offered one. 

He's actually only 16 months away with being able to sign a pre-contract with a non-English team (e.g. Celtic or Wolfsburg) to leave for free. 

[rock bus 854]

Seem to recall that Cantwell took a long time to agree the post promotion contract.

Not something I have an issue with, why shouldn't he get the best possible deal he can. 

As others have said I anticipate us losing one of Cantwell or Buendia, but if we can keep just one of them I'd be happy with that and think it means we will have a good chance of being there or there abouts this season.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Emi can be exciting and Todd can look good, but there are some other exciting players in the mix. 

There is going to be speculation on these two players right up to the deadline in the transfer window, which is not good for them or us. Thankfully its only four league games away, so hopefully all issues will be settled by then, but given what we have brought in, I would prefer to see new players take on the mantle and give us a stronger overall midfield, rather than one that proved a bit powder puff last season.  To my mind, Cantwell and Buendia have to prove themselves all over again in the midst of some excellent looking signings.

There isn't room for all of them and Dowell, Skipp, Sorenson, Mclean, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Stiepermann (to name a few!) offer plenty.  I'd love to think Emi can reproduce the form of the last championship season and that Cantwell can develop more, but I do think that for them and for us, they both might be better off having a fresh challenge elsewhere.

Sorry Lakey completely lost you there. You'd rather lose Cantwell / Buendia than our bit part players?

And talk about underselling their contributions last season. Cantwell was our highest scoring midfielder and a clear standout. Do I really have to make a case for Buendia too? His chance creation rate was up there with the best in the league. In some games these players were head and shoulders the best players on the pitch in terms of technical ability - bearing in mind this is whilst performing for a team which often gave them very little to work with.

Both of these players would rip the championship up this season if they wanted to, they should almost certainly be kept unless their heads are turned / our valuation is met.

If they end up staying and wanting to play for us, would you not favour that we loan or sold some of the younger or bit part players out (i.e. Placheta, Steipermann) rather than intentionally shifting on our best players?

[All the Germans 1,078]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Emi can be exciting and Todd can look good, but there are some other exciting players in the mix. 

There is going to be speculation on these two players right up to the deadline in the transfer window, which is not good for them or us. Thankfully its only four league games away, so hopefully all issues will be settled by then, but given what we have brought in, I would prefer to see new players take on the mantle and give us a stronger overall midfield, rather than one that proved a bit powder puff last season.  To my mind, Cantwell and Buendia have to prove themselves all over again in the midst of some excellent looking signings.

There isn't room for all of them and Dowell, Skipp, Sorenson, Mclean, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Stiepermann (to name a few!) offer plenty.  I'd love to think Emi can reproduce the form of the last championship season and that Cantwell can develop more, but I do think that for them and for us, they both might be better off having a fresh challenge elsewhere.

From start to finish, this is complete rubbish. I've got a controversial idea; let's try to keep our best players? Which, without any question, Emi (in particular) and Cantwell are. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

Vrančić: 6

Watkins: 3

Zimmermann: 7

Husband: 1

Franke: 1

Trybull: 6

Stiepermann: 6

Raggett: 1

Hanley: 6

McLean: 6

Hernández: 6.5

Srbeny: 5

Buendia: 9

Leitner: 6

Marshall: 1

Pukki: 9

Krul: 8

Heise: 1

Drmić: -1

Byram: 7

[hogesar 9,691]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Emi can be exciting and Todd can look good, but there are some other exciting players in the mix. 

There is going to be speculation on these two players right up to the deadline in the transfer window, which is not good for them or us. Thankfully its only four league games away, so hopefully all issues will be settled by then, but given what we have brought in, I would prefer to see new players take on the mantle and give us a stronger overall midfield, rather than one that proved a bit powder puff last season.  To my mind, Cantwell and Buendia have to prove themselves all over again in the midst of some excellent looking signings.

There isn't room for all of them and Dowell, Skipp, Sorenson, Mclean, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Stiepermann (to name a few!) offer plenty.  I'd love to think Emi can reproduce the form of the last championship season and that Cantwell can develop more, but I do think that for them and for us, they both might be better off having a fresh challenge elsewhere.

I'm assuming you've just worded this badly but why you'd WANT to move on our best players to make room for unproven one's doesn't really make sense. Of course naturally if they play at a level that is beyond what we can offer them / we get an offer we can't refuse then they will move on. But neither of those are for NCFC-related-footballing-reasons. On a purely footballing basis we should do everything we can to keep our best players.

[repman 635]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

There isn't room for all of them and Dowell, Skipp, Sorenson, Mclean, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Stiepermann (to name a few!) offer plenty.

None of those players will offer the creativity that Emi does, not even Cantwell comes particularly close. Maybe we slightly alter how we play with more crosses into the box, but in terms of chance creation we were incredibly reliant on Buendia. Cantwell may yet come to the fore as a playmaker, given that last season was his first year playing nearly a full season consistently, and at the top level too.

[lake district canary 4,537]

2 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Sorry Lakey completely lost you there. You'd rather lose Cantwell / Buendia than our bit part players?

And talk about underselling their contributions last season. Cantwell was our highest scoring midfielder and a clear standout. Do I really have to make a case for Buendia too? His chance creation rate was up there with the best in the league. In some games these players were head and shoulders the best players on the pitch in terms of technical ability - bearing in mind this is whilst performing for a team which often gave them very little to work with.

Both of these players would rip the championship up this season if they wanted to, they should almost certainly be kept unless their heads are turned / our valuation is met.

If they end up staying and wanting to play for us, would you not favour that we loan or sold some of the younger or bit part players out (i.e. Placheta, Steipermann) rather than intentionally shifting on our best players?

People seem to forget we were relegated last season.   That was not just because of goals conceded but because we didn't score enough goals. The midfield - often containing our supposed best players - were not good enough. Emi created some good chances, but for an attacking midfielder only scored one goal. Cantwell for all his 6 or was it 7 goals, did not create much until Farke publicly said that players had to step up and he started then to look a bit more effective. 

I get it, Emi ripped up the championship last time and Todd has come on, but I don't value less some of our other players new and old who some people seem to think are just also rans. Well we shall see. I suspect they will be sold, but even if they aren't they will have stiff competition with the likes of Dowell and the other new players.

One of our old guard of players was told to stick with it last season and that they would get more time this season. It was not revealed who that was, but I suspect it was Vrancic, but it might have been Stiepermann. Either or both of these could be just as important as they were before and with the recent additions, Todd and Emi will - if they stay - not have it all their own way. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by lake district canary

[Gaz_in_NZ 9]

Todd was a massive shining light for City last season and certainly up there as one of the best players Norfolk has ever produced!

Todd at 22 has already shown meteoric development over the past 2 seasons and imo will only get better. I don't get the criticism; he is a proper baller, silky feet skills and calm on the ball, prepared to take any defenders on, makes great runs off the ball. Todd is a player that excites me whenever he gets the ball because of his confidence, energy and enthusiasm; he is a player that most Prem teams would dearly love to have. 

Get behind him for goodness sake! As Joni Mitchell would say ''you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone""

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

People seem to forget we were relegated last season.   That was not just because of goals conceded but because we didn't score enough goals. The midfield - often containing our supposed best players - were not good enough. Emi created some good chances, but for an attacking midfielder only scored one goal. Cantwell for all his 6 or was it 7 goals, did not create much until Farke publicly said that players had to step up and he started then to look a bit more effective. 

I get it, Emi ripped up the championship last time and Todd has come on, but I don't value less some of our other players new and old who some people seem to think are just also rans. Well we shall see. I suspect they will be sold, but even if they aren't they will have stiff competition with the likes of Dowell and the other new players.

One of our old guard of players was told to stick with it last season and that they would get more time this season. It was not revealed who that was, but I suspect it was Vrancic, but it might have been Stiepermann. Either or both of these could be just as important as they were before and with the recent additions, Todd and Emi will - if they stay - not have it all their own way. 

But other than Krul, no one came out of last season with a gleaming reference. You could say the same thing about all our star defenders, but I sure as hell would rather us keep Aarons and loan out Mumba (for example), than sell Aarons in favour of Mumba. 

Our whole team ended the season in pathetic fashion, and before that the season was littered with awful performances. But Aarons, Godrey, Zimmerman, Cantwell, Buendia and Pukki were all still our stand out players overall. We should not devalue them just because we did poorly as a team, or ship them out in favour of new signings just because they 'could be as good'. 

I do agree that there should be a clean slate, and the new signings / academy prospects should get to have a say with regular gametime, but that doesn't mean we should favour these new players over our current stars. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

15 hours ago, TheGoogler said:

What utter crap.

I agree, you talked utter crap there. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

5 hours ago, repman said:

None of those players will offer the creativity that Emi does, not even Cantwell comes particularly close. Maybe we slightly alter how we play with more crosses into the box, but in terms of chance creation we were incredibly reliant on Buendia. Cantwell may yet come to the fore as a playmaker, given that last season was his first year playing nearly a full season consistently, and at the top level too.

Quite right, Cantwell is very good but Buendia is on another level. 

[Gordon Bennett 786]

Other club’s supporters seem to really get behind youth players when they break through, ‘he’s one of our own’ they sing. Not sure why people here don’t laud Cantwell in that way. Baffles me to be honest. 

[Pugin 601]

12 hours ago, Gaz_in_NZ said:

Todd was a massive shining light for City last season and certainly up there as one of the best players Norfolk has ever produced!

Todd at 22 has already shown meteoric development over the past 2 seasons and imo will only get better. I don't get the criticism; he is a proper baller, silky feet skills and calm on the ball, prepared to take any defenders on, makes great runs off the ball. Todd is a player that excites me whenever he gets the ball because of his confidence, energy and enthusiasm; he is a player that most Prem teams would dearly love to have. 

Get behind him for goodness sake! As Joni Mitchell would say ''you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone""

 

All totally true. And he also 'sees pictures in his head' when City are attacking, which enabled him to know exactly what he is going to do when he receives the ball. This is not a coachable skill, and it is the thing that interests the very top clubs, international managers, and those who know.

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

13 hours ago, lake district canary said:

People seem to forget we were relegated last season

Really ? Good job you’ve reminded us isn’t it ? 😁

[HazzaJet 254]

21 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Emi can be exciting and Todd can look good, but there are some other exciting players in the mix. 

There is going to be speculation on these two players right up to the deadline in the transfer window, which is not good for them or us. Thankfully its only four league games away, so hopefully all issues will be settled by then, but given what we have brought in, I would prefer to see new players take on the mantle and give us a stronger overall midfield, rather than one that proved a bit powder puff last season.  To my mind, Cantwell and Buendia have to prove themselves all over again in the midst of some excellent looking signings.

There isn't room for all of them and Dowell, Skipp, Sorenson, Mclean, Hernandez, Placheta, Vrancic and Stiepermann (to name a few!) offer plenty.  I'd love to think Emi can reproduce the form of the last championship season and that Cantwell can develop more, but I do think that for them and for us, they both might be better off having a fresh challenge elsewhere.

I know we have a lot of midfielders and the new signings all sound good but they don’t all play in the same position, I wouldn’t say that they all offer plenty now and here are my views on them:

McLean, Vrancic - both have Championship experience and although they can play the no.10 role, I see them both as DMs. Vrancic is also ageing and out of contract next summer, and so I see him as a benchwarmer this season. With McLean signing a new contract and his history with us I see him as a starter

Skipp, Sorensen - See them both as DMs, although have heard that apparently Sorensen can also play as CB. I think Skipp will be a starter as although he only managed to make 11 appearances last season, all as a sub, 2 were in the Champions League and he is here on loan from a major PL club. Sorensen has only ever played Danish football, and so I see starting this season as a benchwarmer, and be given some experience ready to replace Tettey/Vrancic next season

Hernandez, Cantwell, Buendia - See all their main positions as wingers, although they can also play centrally. Hard to say who will be first choice this season, although Hernandez is often used as an impact sub

Placheta - Left winger. With no experience of English football, I see him in the same way as I see Sorensen. With the likelihood of us losing Cantwell/Buendia this summer or even more next summer if we fail to bounce straight back, I think he’s been brought in as backup for them. Might possibly start today though with Buendia suspended

Stiepermann - Brilliant in our promotion season, but was poor last season in the PL and next summer will be 30 and entering the final year of his contract. Although his main position is no.10 he will also play as a LW or LB in an emergency. Think he will be backup this season 

Dowell - See him as a no.10 although can also play as a winger. Although he’s still young, he’s from a PL side and our only new midfielder who’s proven in the Championship - did brilliantly on loan last season. Think he will be first choice, and brought in to replace Stieps or possibly Cantwell/Buendia if we lose them. After how he did last season, I also believe he’s likely to be a contender for POTS next summer

I know there isn’t really room for all of our midfielders, but I think that the reason why we’ve brought in so many is because we have high chances of us losing some over the next 12 months, and if we do then we need to have replacements ready. I’m hoping we manage to keep all our best players, as they have PL experience which could out to be a massive boost in our hopes of us bouncing back this season, and if by chance we do manage to bounce straight back it would give us a boost to PL survival next season

[Thirsty Lizard 3,166]

On 10/09/2020 at 22:18, ELYOUKAYEE said:

Oh F**k off Plato!

Thank you for your erudite and articulate contribution to the debate. 

For future reference I object strongly to being compared to Plato. I've always been more of a Socrates man myself.