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Saudi money looking for a new home?

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38 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I'm not talking about that, i'm talking about so called "fans" saying they would no longer support our club or watch football if we were bought by a mega rich Saudi backed consortium. I support the football club not the owners. Somewhere along the line at Norwich it seems the two have become unhealthily blurred.

 So you don't care who the owners are? I find that hard to believe.

 

For me, I would feel that our club was defiled if we had owners like those mentioned and I can see that I would dial back my support, probably going to fewer games, possibly none. But I don't live in Norwich, go to under 10 games a season, often on my own, so it wouldn't be a huge change for me. I can see it would be very different for others. My love for the club would never fade completely, but it would undoubtedly be affected. Who knows though, I'm certainly not a fortune teller, if we won the PL I might be transformed into a plastic glory hunter. 😂

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2 hours ago, duke63 said:

Pouring money into a football club is no guarantee of success.

Depends on how much.

Some owners have put in £200 million+ without success, I agree but if you have enough money to keep putting this in without wincing, you will get there in the end. I don't think an ordinary billionaire like Ashley, can afford this. If you want to guarantee to buy success in modern football you really need the super rich - a billionaire several times over.

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The Saudis being shown the door might have some merit were the reason to be one connected to their appalling human rights record, or their alleged funding of ISIS.

But it is not, it is about. It's their apparent pirating of Premier League games via its beoutQ channel.

Chop off the heads of foreign workers, that’s ok - but the supposed chopping off of a bit of cash to the PL's coffers and that is just not acceptable. And I don't doubt it was with the same eye to their pocket that FIFA gave the go ahead to the World Cup to be in Qatar.

As to Newcastle then maybe they could take a step back, follow City's lead and put in the work and money to develop local talent - it might not buy you instant success, but it might just give you something to have pride about....... something 'blood' money can never really give.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Ren said:

Yes Man City fans said that as well, until they turned up and now they get to put trophies in the cabinet most years that has all been forgotten about. 

For me football has always been about winning things.  Sorry but I'm not really bothered about all the "community" side projects.  

There are certain Man City fans who have found themselves not supporting the club anymore and drifting to other local teams like Oldham and Salford (although that is less common due to the Man U connections). 

Personally I hope that such a dilemma is never put upon Norwich fans. I don't want Norwich to be a global brand and more of a corporation than a football team. I love being a Norwich supporter as it feels like a 'real' thing. Big clubs like Man U, Man C etc. feel ethereal. I live in London, so if I see someone in a Norwich shirt I can say 'hi' and have a joke about the club - if I wear my shirt people feel they can say 'hi' to me, or shout 'on the ball City' as they pass by. That is what I mean about community.

You don't get that if you support a big team like Man City. There is no community as they are just another global brand with very little about them that is unique. I'd hate to have to feel less of a connection to my club as surely that is the most important thing in football. 

All glory is relative and I'd much rather win as the underdog than be the team who spend half a billion pounds and achieved a modicum of 'success'. 

Edited by Bethnal Yellow and Green
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42 minutes ago, Herman said:

Good rant.

It's a nonsense statement. I don't want a extremely repressive, regressive, murderous, terrorism funding, journalist butchering regime anywhere near the club. It's not virtue signalling it's about a sense of morals and humanity. 

Exactly. Yet apparently having those requirements mean you're now a "so called 'fan'" according to @Jim Smith

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38 minutes ago, Ren said:

Yes Man City fans said that as well, until they turned up and now they get to put trophies in the cabinet most years that has all been forgotten about. 

For me football has always been about winning things.  Sorry but I'm not really bothered about all the "community" side projects.  

At what cost, and given how few things there are to win there might be merit in how your club conducts itself.

Sure, Celtic win things, but to what purpose ?

Part of being a City supporter is knowing how involved the supporters are, and how close the owners are to those supporters,

Take a look down the A140 to see the effect a 'disconnected' club can have on it’s supporters,

And if it is all about winning things, then perhaps Norwich City isn't for you.

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Not criticising the original poster but this is a pointless discussion. Delia is highly unlikely to sell to anyone in any circumstances. She definitely wouldn't sell to anyone from that part of the world. 

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1 hour ago, Ren said:

Yes Man City fans said that as well, until they turned up and now they get to put trophies in the cabinet most years that has all been forgotten about. 

For me football has always been about winning things.  Sorry but I'm not really bothered about all the "community" side projects.  

Aside from when they won the cup to force Man Utd to remove that banner, and then winning the league in 2012, I don't envy Man City fans at all. Being one of the top 4 clubs in England doesn't look any more fun/exciting as a supporter than it does to be Norwich fan, if anything it looks far less fun. For Man City anything less than a league title or winning the Champs League is now considered a failure. They go into every domestic match expecting to win which means it's probably not that exciting when it does happen (unless it's against one of their 3 or 4 main rivals). There's no risk of relegation which means there's no chance of the excitement/hope of playing in a new league every few years. New signings don't mean that much as their squad is permanently superstars anyway.

I would 100% prefer to be a Canary than that. So I certainly can do without millions from some dodgy investor.

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

It just comes down to that age old argument.

Do you support the club because it's embedded in you regardless of results?

Or

Do you support the club because you want them in the Premier League so you can watch it play big clubs and maybe dream about one day becoming one of those big clubs?

If it's the latter, journalist-butchering scumbags owning the club and pouring cash into the playing squad is not only fine, but something to actively seek. For the former, the prospect is abhorrent.

For the record, the prospect is abhorrent.

Sorry but that’s not true. We generally all support the club because it’s embedded in us. That’s why I (and many others) would not have a hissy fit and stop supporting the club is it were bought by a Saudi sovereign wealth fund. I would suggest that those saying they would stop supporting it perhaps do not have it “embedded” in them.

laughable really we have fans saying they would not want Man City’s owners. Have you seen what they have done to that part of Manchester even leaving aside what they have achieved on the pitch. 

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26 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Not criticising the original poster but this is a pointless discussion. Delia is highly unlikely to sell to anyone in any circumstances. She definitely wouldn't sell to anyone from that part of the world. 

The post is mostly tongue in cheek (of course it would never happen), but it is an interesting thought experiment to see the views here.

Delia has taken a lot of criticism on this page when we’ve seen bad times on the pitch like last season, but confronted with this choice it seems most would prefer to stay as we are.

For me we’ve seen the ceiling of what we can achieve with Delia in the current state of football. Rock bottom of premier league. And I have totally made peace with that. If we want to establish ourselves in the premier league - whatever that means given everyone below 8th seem to be treading water - then we’d need foreign investment.

This Saudi money is an extreme example of foreign investment but I tend to agree no billionaire hands are truly clean.

I’m happy to stick with Delia and continue this roller coaster we’ve been on. I just don’t think we’ll ever get to the ‘next level’.

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22 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

laughable really we have fans saying they would not want Man City’s owners. Have you seen what they have done to that part of Manchester even leaving aside what they have achieved on the pitch. 

So you want new, wealthy owners for us because you want them to rejuvenate the city?

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, WD40 said:

The post is mostly tongue in cheek (of course it would never happen), but it is an interesting thought experiment to see the views here.

Delia has taken a lot of criticism on this page when we’ve seen bad times on the pitch like last season, but confronted with this choice it seems most would prefer to stay as we are.

For me we’ve seen the ceiling of what we can achieve with Delia in the current state of football. Rock bottom of premier league. And I have totally made peace with that. If we want to establish ourselves in the premier league - whatever that means given everyone below 8th seem to be treading water - then we’d need foreign investment.

This Saudi money is an extreme example of foreign investment but I tend to agree no billionaire hands are truly clean.

I’m happy to stick with Delia and continue this roller coaster we’ve been on. I just don’t think we’ll ever get to the ‘next level’.

I am consistently surprised at the (convenient?) short memories many posters have on here. We finished in 11th place in the PL in 2013 "with Delia". Surely that is your ceiling?

 

Although the conviction you and others have in the future performance of the club is also baffling. Who would have predicted that we would get promoted in the way we did after the previous season, or that Leicester would win the Premier League or that Burnley would have the recent record they have, or... Of course, that unpredictability means that we could end up in League 1 with the binners, but why not allow yourself a little hope? Otherwise I struggle to see what you get out of supporting us.

Edited by Nuff Said

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40 minutes ago, Canarywary said:

Aside from when they won the cup to force Man Utd to remove that banner, and then winning the league in 2012, I don't envy Man City fans at all. Being one of the top 4 clubs in England doesn't look any more fun/exciting as a supporter than it does to be Norwich fan, if anything it looks far less fun. For Man City anything less than a league title or winning the Champs League is now considered a failure. They go into every domestic match expecting to win which means it's probably not that exciting when it does happen (unless it's against one of their 3 or 4 main rivals). There's no risk of relegation which means there's no chance of the excitement/hope of playing in a new league every few years. New signings don't mean that much as their squad is permanently superstars anyway.

I would 100% prefer to be a Canary than that. So I certainly can do without millions from some dodgy investor.

Incredible!  You'd rather play in different divisions than be winning trophies?  

I would absolutely love us to create some proper history in my supporting life and sign some players that I have actually heard of instead of selling them off.  Sadly that is never going to happen under this "model". 

Norwich fans really are a strange lot sometimes. 

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I do get people's moral objections to whether we would want this kind of investment at the club.  While it's valid, my biggest issue about foreign investment would always be how much they actually care about the club they are buying and how long before they get bored of their new toy? Portsmouth had some great years and won the FA Cup under foreign ownership but those owners soon bailed when the dog doo hit the fan and left with huge debts accrued,  They cared not one bit as the club spiralled out of control and down the leagues. 

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3 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I am consistently surprised at the (convenient?) short memories many posters have on here. We finished in 11th place in the PL in 2013 "with Delia". Surely that is your ceiling?

 

Although the conviction you and others have in the future performance of the club is also baffling. Who would have predicted that we would get promoted in the way we did after the previous season, or that Leicester would win the Premier League or that Burnley would have the recent record they have, or... Of course, that unpredictability means that we could end up in League 1 with the binners, but why not allow yourself a little hope? Otherwise I struggle to see what you get out of supporting us.

In fairness as well, we have spent half of the last decade in the Premier League.  Although of course we would like to have been in more we have no entitlement to be in the top league.

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4 minutes ago, Canarywary said:

So you want new, wealthy owners for us because you want them to rejuvenate the city?

I think it's a valid point, @Canarywary...a lot of people don't actually realise quite how much other owners do for the general infrastructure in and around the club (or the fans, mind...Leicester's have had plenty of free drinks, pies and scarves from theirs - I got a £50 bill to join an oversubscribed queue for away tickets this year from ours).
 

1 hour ago, Bill said:

As to Newcastle then maybe they could take a step back, follow City's lead and put in the work and money to develop local talent - it might not buy you instant success, but it might just give you something to have pride about....... something 'blood' money can never really give.

...and on this one @Bill, I'm not sure we've actually been that good at developing local talent have we? Can think of the Murphy twins, Gunn and Cantwell as having come through and actually played a proper part in the first team but most of our other Academy products came to us well-developed from other clubs (often with a reasonably price tag...ironically funded by parachute payments from the Premier League).

'When you're fielding a [club] side without a single Englishman, that's a nonsense' said Michael Wynn-Jones in that Times article, yet we won the league whilst struggling to fulfil our home-grown quota at times...him and Delia have done some wonderful things for the club in the past, but they certainly come across as happy to own a club rather than progress one, and as much as they say how much they dislike the nasty sides of football they're still happy to take the money from gambling companies, set extortionate prices for away fans and ratify ludicrous membership schemes.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes at the end of the day, but when you've got a board that have been relegated from the Premier League three times during their regime seemingly happy to send their latest effort 'to war without a gun' it does make you wonder 'what if', no?

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7 minutes ago, Declan said:

I think it's a valid point, @Canarywary...a lot of people don't actually realise quite how much other owners do for the general infrastructure in and around the club (or the fans, mind...Leicester's have had plenty of free drinks, pies and scarves from theirs - I got a £50 bill to join an oversubscribed queue for away tickets this year from ours).
 

...and on this one @Bill, I'm not sure we've actually been that good at developing local talent have we? Can think of the Murphy twins, Gunn and Cantwell as having come through and actually played a proper part in the first team but most of our other Academy products came to us well-developed from other clubs (often with a reasonably price tag...ironically funded by parachute payments from the Premier League).

'When you're fielding a [club] side without a single Englishman, that's a nonsense' said Michael Wynn-Jones in that Times article, yet we won the league whilst struggling to fulfil our home-grown quota at times...him and Delia have done some wonderful things for the club in the past, but they certainly come across as happy to own a club rather than progress one, and as much as they say how much they dislike the nasty sides of football they're still happy to take the money from gambling companies, set extortionate prices for away fans and ratify ludicrous membership schemes.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes at the end of the day, but when you've got a board that have been relegated from the Premier League three times during their regime seemingly happy to send their latest effort 'to war without a gun' it does make you wonder 'what if', no?

We've been relegated from the PL four times under their ownership

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

We've been relegated from the PL four times under their ownership

Yep. They made it four after seemingly happily sending us in 'without a gun' this latest time - which you'd have hoped they wouldn't having been relegated three times during their regime at that point (which is what I posted, albeit a little clunkily!).

Edited by Declan
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18 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I am consistently surprised at the (convenient?) short memories many posters have on here. We finished in 11th place in the PL in 2013 "with Delia". Surely that is your ceiling?

 

Although the conviction you and others have in the future performance of the club is also baffling. Who would have predicted that we would get promoted in the way we did after the previous season, or that Leicester would win the Premier League or that Burnley would have the recent record they have, or... Of course, that unpredictability means that we could end up in League 1 with the binners, but why not allow yourself a little hope? Otherwise I struggle to see what you get out of supporting us.

Thankyou for highlighting the pertinent part, including “in the current state of football”. 

The football world is vastly, vastly different to 2011. I think I’m right in saying that for the premier league season just gone we are the only team without a billionaire owner. It’s extraordinary. It can’t be compared with 10 years ago.

And we certainly can’t be compared to Leicester 😂!

I wish I had a crystal ball to see what future seasons under Delia are like it’s just my opinion that we’ve seen the ceiling of our potential with her ownership, given what other teams are able to do. 

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19 minutes ago, Ren said:

Incredible!  You'd rather play in different divisions than be winning trophies?  

I would absolutely love us to create some proper history in my supporting life and sign some players that I have actually heard of instead of selling them off.  Sadly that is never going to happen under this "model". 

Norwich fans really are a strange lot sometimes. 

We won a trophy last season - the league title. Just because I don't envy Man City fans doesn't mean I don't want us to achieve.

Do you think Man City fans got any more enjoyment and satisfaction out of their last season than we did out of ours? (Almost) anything can happen with our club and that is what makes it so exciting. Yes it's s*** when we get relegated, or miss out on play-offs, but that is what makes it even more amazing when we go up, or when we stay up, or when we reach the FA cup QF etc. Like I said, it's Prem League, Champs League or failure for Man City, nothing in-between.

An analogy - supporting us is a roller-coaster, supporting Man City is the 8:45 to London Waterloo. I know which I'd rather do for fun!

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51 minutes ago, Canarywary said:

So you want new, wealthy owners for us because you want them to rejuvenate the city?

Nope but the notion that these type of owners don’t do anything for the community (and ours do) is simply not true. The Man City owners have rejuvenated a part of that side of Manchester and I believe the club does a lot in the community also. 

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I wonder if all those displaying 'faux outrage' regarding Sinister Saudi Arabia and it's (I wholly concur) despicable human rights, corruption,  etc, etc, etc......

For starters...."Do you travel onboard or drive diesel/petrol motor vehicles and do you use trains and travel by air?".... 

No doubt the 'faux outrage' collective will still condemn those horrendous middle eastern zealots. In their outraged defence and denial, those car driving outraged, will also probably deny their blatant hypocrisy. Those adamant staunch lib/lab/Con/Green etc political pink 'un posters red with rage among us, will continually deny and refute using that by product of Saudi oil, that despicable (middle eastern) 'motion lotion'!

Professing that they run their Skoda Estelle on waste lumpy mazola chip oil, or that their ickle smart car is all electric, their dad's old Rover lower floor panels have corroded away and it's actually 'Flinstone' powered - and anyway, it's the kids turn to get there feet on the tarmac (another by-product) an' power them swiftly to Mundesley....They who are 'outraged'  will say they only fly like 'Icarus' did and adhere feathers to their arms (mind the sun folks)....and flap like a humming bird on acid to get to their destination.....Or occasionally use the old pump 'up/down' Rail hand cart on the tracks to get down to Laandaan....

Synthetic rubber...For the Johnny come earliest, nail polish, 'bicycle tyres' etc etc....? I could go on but unless the 'faux outraged' don't or refuse to wear, utilise or use any by product produced from a large percentage of Saudi Crude oil, preferring instead to live self sufficiently in a thatched stone croft, wearing fur, wooden clogs and living on peas an' carrots somewhere in the Highlands.....You as normal society have no cause or reason to be 'faux outraged' as you are financially supporting those who you so despise.....Just my personal opinion.... Or am I just 'virtual signalling?'..... 

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20 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Nope but the notion that these type of owners don’t do anything for the community (and ours do) is simply not true. The Man City owners have rejuvenated a part of that side of Manchester and I believe the club does a lot in the community also. 

Sorry just to clarify i'm not saying our owners do nothing in the community (perhaps did not express that as well as I could) more that the notion that other "foreign" owners don;t do anything is just not true.

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1 hour ago, Ren said:

Incredible!  You'd rather play in different divisions than be winning trophies?  

I would absolutely love us to create some proper history in my supporting life and sign some players that I have actually heard of instead of selling them off.  Sadly that is never going to happen under this "model". 

Norwich fans really are a strange lot sometimes. 

Just out of interest, why?

Don't get me wrong, I would like the excitement of that the first time, but it would get old pretty quickly...

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8 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I wonder if all those displaying 'faux outrage' regarding Sinister Saudi Arabia and it's (I wholly concur) despicable human rights, corruption,  etc, etc, etc......

For starters...."Do you travel onboard or drive diesel/petrol motor vehicles and do you use trains and travel by air?".... 

No doubt the 'faux outrage' collective will still condemn those horrendous middle eastern zealots. In their outraged defence and denial, those car driving outraged, will also probably deny their blatant hypocrisy. Those adamant staunch lib/lab/Con/Green etc political pink 'un posters red with rage among us, will continually deny and refute using that by product of Saudi oil, that despicable (middle eastern) 'motion lotion'!

Professing that they run their Skoda Estelle on waste lumpy mazola chip oil, or that their ickle smart car is all electric, their dad's old Rover lower floor panels have corroded away and it's actually 'Flinstone' powered - and anyway, it's the kids turn to get there feet on the tarmac (another by-product) an' power them swiftly to Mundesley....They who are 'outraged'  will say they only fly like 'Icarus' did and adhere feathers to their arms (mind the sun folks)....and flap like a humming bird on acid to get to their destination.....Or occasionally use the old pump 'up/down' Rail hand cart on the tracks to get down to Laandaan....

Synthetic rubber...For the Johnny come earliest, nail polish, 'bicycle tyres' etc etc....? I could go on but unless the 'faux outraged' don't or refuse to wear, utilise or use any by product produced from a large percentage of Saudi Crude oil, preferring instead to live self sufficiently in a thatched stone croft, wearing fur, wooden clogs and living on peas an' carrots somewhere in the Highlands.....You as normal society have no cause or reason to be 'faux outraged' as you are financially supporting those who you so despise.....Just my personal opinion.... Or am I just 'virtual signalling?'..... 

Did you fall into a thesaurus and a book of poetry when writing this? What a load of pretentious tripe. 

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27 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Nope but the notion that these type of owners don’t do anything for the community (and ours do) is simply not true. The Man City owners have rejuvenated a part of that side of Manchester and I believe the club does a lot in the community also. 

No, that's fair enough. I'm not saying that I'm fundamentally opposed to the concept of new, wealthy owners, and I don't know/have a problem with the Man city owners particularly, my point was more that I'm not interested in being taken over by unethical owners just so we can become like Man City, because becoming like Man City isn't the be-all and end-all as far as I'm concerned.
Also, that might apply to Man City, but does it apply to the majority of big owners? I honestly don't know, so this isn't a rhetorical question.

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I heard one of the most obscene things I have ever heard concerning football yesterday regarding the Saudi group pullout fromthe Newcastle takeover.

Paul Robinson said that the deal falling through was harming Newcastle as they couldn't move on without more investment and that Ashley wasn't doing that.

So paying of the club debts in 2007 and spending £366M (from 2007-2018) in transfers since is not investment. Is it his fault the blokes he gave the money to were pretty useless at reinvesting it?

So from now on, the only way you can progress in football is to keep spending someone elses money and even if you waste it all it isn't your fault but the owners so get rid of them (how?) and get others in who will let you waste some more.

So for all that money spending, all Newcastle have won is two Championships.

We have won one in that time and an L1 title.

So two each.

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16 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Synthetic rubber...For the Johnny come earliest, nail polish, 'bicycle tyres' etc etc....? I could go on but unless the 'faux outraged' don't or refuse to wear, utilise or use any by product produced from a large percentage of Saudi Crude oil, preferring instead to live self sufficiently in a thatched stone croft, wearing fur, wooden clogs and living on peas an' carrots somewhere in the Highlands.....You as normal society have no cause or reason to be 'faux outraged' as you are financially supporting those who you so despise.....Just my personal opinion.... Or am I just 'virtual signalling?'..... 

This is a very confusing post. Firstly, you consistently put faux-outrage in inverted commas, suggesting you're mocking the concept of faux-outrage? Or are you accusing others of faux-outrage?

Secondly, in your final line you seem to mock people who accuse others of virtue signalling (again, in inverted commas)? Are you mocking virtue signallers, or the people who accuse others of virtue signalling?

Either way, saying people are hypocrites for criticising the Saudi regime whilst also driving cars and using plastic is pretty daft. Sorry.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, cornish sam said:

Just out of interest, why?

Don't get me wrong, I would like the excitement of that the first time, but it would get old pretty quickly...

Why would you not want to win the league or go to cup finals every year or so, how does that ever get boring? 

Losing 10 games in a row and selling our best players for ones that we have never heard of, now that's pretty boring. 

Wouldn't it be amazing, to actually build properly around the team that we had last year and really push on, that's the type of adventure Id like instead of 1 step forward and then 2 back, with the hope we might get to go forward again.  

Edited by Ren

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