Tetteys Jig 830 Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, Indy said: Iโm doomed, I just donโt know when or how, but Iโm certainly doomed ๐ I'm just waiting for my own personal pfizer IV drip to just constantly keep me topped up ๐ I see that 4th jabs are already being discussed 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,285 Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Tetteys Jig said: I'm just waiting for my own personal pfizer IV drip to just constantly keep me topped up ๐ I see that 4th jabs are already being discussed Ready and waiting in Israel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,416 Posted December 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said: Christ! Pagel with the good news! ย Very surprising for an ISAGE member. Will Omicron be a damp squib? not long before we find out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,285 Posted December 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Indy said: Iโm not, Iโm being lead by the current findings from the WHO. We shall see, but the speed of spread means the hospitalisation and deaths also has a quicker lag. By the way December is the start of higher malaria numbers I believe in Africa, so without knowing the reason forย people beingย admitted we canโt place the blame on Covid. Everyone is tested on admission for Covid. Unfortunately a 1000 in five days in Guaetangย https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-07/s-africa-daily-covid-hospital-admissions-more-than-double Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,486 Posted December 9, 2021 Age : 23 Underlying conditions : None Number of Covid Jabs : 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted December 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, ricardo said: Very surprising for an ISAGE member. Will Omicron be a damp squib? not long before we find out. who knows, probably not but then compared to the doomsday forecasts given about Delta, it was a bit of a damp squib for us at least. Sure it's been a nuisance but we've had a relatively decent run from spring time really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,416 Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, Tetteys Jig said: who knows, probably not but then compared to the doomsday forecasts given about Delta, it was a bit of a damp squib for us at least. Sure it's been a nuisance but we've had a relatively decent run from spring time really. All gone quiet from those promoting how well it was going in France, Germany, etc etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,323 Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Well b back said: Unfortunately a 1000 in five days in Guaetangย https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-07/s-africa-daily-covid-hospital-admissions-more-than-double Again I fully respect your view WBB youโve been directly involved and have first hand knowledge and fully appreciate your inputs been brilliant. ๐๐Iโd be a little sceptical as it says with Covid not because of Covid. Like I said thereโs definitely more will be found in people admitted for other things no doubt as this one is a lot more transmissible, so if you had 10,000 in hospital last month with say 600 testing positive for Covid that number will likely be a hellย of a lot higher per 10,000 people but it might still be that only 10,000 are in hospital. Really needs to be monitored at cause not with, so if the admissions are directly because of Covid notย because you test positive with mild symptoms after being admitted for malariaโฆ.. Time will tell but itโs all pointing to very mildย symptoms and low deaths & hospitalisations. But heck we will certainly see. Edited December 9, 2021 by Indy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,416 Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) National 50,867 - 148 rate of increase ofย 8%ย ย ย dropping back for second day. This weeks mini rise seems to have played out. We are now down on same day last week basis. Local Norwichย ย West rate ย ย ย ย ย ย 311.5 ย ย ย ย Localย ย Rย estimated 0.9 - 1.1 ย ย ย N&N Patientsย (falling) 07-12-2021ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 18 06-12-2021 23 05-12-2021 22 04-12-2021 22 03-12-2021 20 02-12-2021 22 01-12-2021 26 ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย Vaxย ย ย ย ย 1st Doseย ย ย ย 21,700 ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 89% done ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย Norwich numbersย ย 77.7%ย ย ย ย ย ย ย Booster rate 26.6 2nd Doseย ย ย ย 29,437 ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 81.1% doneย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 71% Boosterย ย ย ย 414,645 ย ย ย totalย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 21,715,504 ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 37.8% In Hospital 07-12-2021ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย 7,317 06-12-2021 7,339 05-12-2021 7,239 04-12-2021 7,143 03-12-2021 7,302 02-12-2021 7,401 01-12-2021 7,338 ย ย ย Edited December 9, 2021 by ricardo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,416 Posted December 9, 2021 More good news https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/botswana-says-no-rise-hospitalisation-omicron-70-vaccinated-2021-12-08/ 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 766 Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ricardo said: More good news https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/botswana-says-no-rise-hospitalisation-omicron-70-vaccinated-2021-12-08/ Yes interesting to get some data from a country where more are vaccinated. South Africa only has a quarter fully vaccinated I believe so expectedly going to lead to more hospitalisations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 766 Posted December 9, 2021 As a slight aside, New Zealand banning the sale of cigarettes to anyone who was born in 2008 or later. So if youโre currently 13 youโll never be able to legally buy cigarettes even when you turn 16/18/21. Ties in with earlier discussions about covid passports/treating unvaccinated people. Next step refusing treatment to anyone who hasnโt given up smoking? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,285 Posted December 9, 2021 Public Health Scotland asking people to postpone Christmas parties and go online for Nativity plays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,323 Posted December 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Well b back said: Public Health Scotland asking people to postpone Christmas parties and go online for Nativity plays. Itโs strange theyโve had more restrictions yet arenโt doing very well, makes you question if theyโve actually followed the rules? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,486 Posted December 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Aggy said: As a slight aside, New Zealand banning the sale of cigarettes to anyone who was born in 2008 or later. So if youโre currently 13 youโll never be able to legally buy cigarettes even when you turn 16/18/21. Ties in with earlier discussions about covid passports/treating unvaccinated people. Next step refusing treatment to anyone who hasnโt given up smoking? New Zealand is just a dangerously unhinged country itโs best to ignore them tbh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,842 Posted December 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Aggy said: As a slight aside, New Zealand banning the sale of cigarettes to anyone who was born in 2008 or later. So if youโre currently 13 youโll never be able to legally buy cigarettes even when you turn 16/18/21. Ties in with earlier discussions about covid passports/treating unvaccinated people. Next step refusing treatment to anyone who hasnโt given up smoking? My dentist would only do the bare minimum on my teeth until I gave up smoking as he didn't see much point in him wasting his time or me wasting money. It was only when I went onto vapes did he fix them up. Turns out he was right as my gums were in a mess from all the tar leaching into them. Sometimes a kick up the backside like this works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,416 Posted December 9, 2021 56 minutes ago, The Real Buh said: New Zealand is just a dangerously unhinged country itโs best to ignore them tbh Just wait until the fag smuggling starts.ย Are they going to criminalise under age smokers? Seems nobody learned anything from the prohibition era. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 766 Posted December 9, 2021 The BBC has an interesting calculator (?) embedded into one of its current articles which allows you to see hospital admissions in your area, waiting times etc. Various different results, but one in my local nhs trust states in November 2021 they had 3,352 emergency admissions. In November 2019, they had 3,467 emergency admissions. There were around ย 300 more attendances at a&e this year, but around 100 fewerย admitted. The next Trust along did have more admissions in November 2021 (4,264 vs 3,913 in 2019). But in 2019, 44 per cent of those admissions needed to wait over 4 hours for a hospital bed. In 2021, only 33 per cent needed to wait that longย (and thatโs waiting for beds after admission, not waiting to be seen at a and e ).ย So more people didnโt have a bed after being admitted in November 2019 than November 2021. ย Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aggy 766 Posted December 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, ricardo said: Just wait until the fag smuggling starts.ย Are they going to criminalise under age smokers? Seems nobody learned anything from the prohibition era. To be honest, smoking is dying out anyway. Very few people my age smoke compared to my parentsโ generation. And even fewer of my cousinsโ generation seem to (theyโre students). Booze on the other hand is still quite popular!ย Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted December 9, 2021 Reading that only 72% of residents in care homes had received their booster, so much forย โHancocks protective ringโโฆโฆ..as they say!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,285 Posted December 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Van wink said: Reading that only 72% of residents in care homes had received their booster, so much forย โHancocks protective ringโโฆโฆ..as they say!! Afraid itโs worse for the home bound, it is believed 300,000 will need boosters. As I understand it the effort to get those vaccinated will finally begin in earnest next week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Upo 91 Posted December 10, 2021 21 hours ago, Indy said: No YF I havenโt and you nor I know whatโs needed to be done! Hospitalisation are very low compared to the numbers infected with the delta variant which is at first report a down site more severe. So Iโll go again to challenge the doomsters,, what exactly do you think needs to be done to slow it down? 1, stop everyone working? Millions of people need to travel to aย work sites and mix, itโs just how it is. 2, stop people revelling? Goods are moved in massive bulk around the country do you want to stop all the deliveries? 3, stop people going shopping or going out at all? We still need to eat, see loved ones we care for etc. 4, stop education again? Lets not beat around the bush, itโs not about slowing this strain, itโs R 2.5 to 4 in its transmission rates and is already in this country, itโs not going to be stopped. Luckily over 20 million have already had three vaccines, vast majority have had two vaccines and this is going to stop the numbers hospitalised and deaths compared to other times we had big waves. Additionally we now understand the treatments and hospitalisation time for Covid has been dramatically reduced. So the reality is weโre totally unprepared in the way we live to prevent this from spreading, itโs like holding back a waterfall with a sieve, itโs heading our way and rather than think we can prevent this quick spread we need to have a plan to deal with it, if we really think more will be hospitalised then the nightingale hospitals should be implemented and additional staff put on standby. WBB - just to say that I think December is the start of malaria in Africa and hospitalisation start to rise this time of year, so without actually knowing why patients are being hospitalised for we donโt know the true Covid numbers, as said anyone hospitalised is automatically tested for Covid. I just donโt think thereโs much more we can sensibly do, yes you can cancel parties, stop mass gatherings like sports events and cancel Christmas but itโs not going to stop the press of this variant. ย 1. No. Just wear high-grade masks. Frequent rapid tests at home. 2. No. Goods transportation has little to no impact on spread of disease.ย Frequent rapid tests at home. 3. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA air purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home. 4. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home. In addition: - test & trace & quarantine those who have been exposedย fast and decisively - monitor spread of variants with frequent sequencing - Mandate booster shots for all - Test all travelers to and from abroad, repeatedly, even those fully vaxxed.ย Quarantine until neg. result. Mandate daily rapid testing at hotels. ย These measures are extremely cheap compared to alternative of mass death or mass lockdowns. It is extremely stupid that this extremely cost-effective and proven measures have not been implemented yet to full extent. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Upo 91 Posted December 10, 2021 On 09/12/2021 at 01:51, Tetteys Jig said: who's footing the bill for this one? When does it end? When the entire world is at ZeroCovid? Then another pangolin will give us "Covid 20 -ย the squeakual" ย Far from it, because we have a tool which is superior to any vaccine or in fact any measure there is or ever will be: High grade masks. How effective are masks? 95-99% effective -> both ways. FFP2 (95% filtration): 1 / 0.05 x 0.05 = 400. -> From one person wearing a ffp2 mask to another wearing a ffp2 mask, it takes 400 times longerย to deliver the same number of viral particles from one to the other compared to not wearing any masks FFP3 (99% filtration): 1/ 0.01 x 0.01 = 10000 -> 10000 times longer to deliver same number of particles Do you get it now? We need to get over ourselves and start thinking about masks like we think about wearing shoes: You put them on when you step outside and take off when you come back at home. Mask use in Asia is the norm and that is why Japan has crushed delta despite modest restrictions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Upo 91 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) Forget data from SA for a moment. Here is the best news: Quote Mask compliance in London increased from half to 90% - Sadiq Khan The Mayor of London was speaking to Sky News this morning following the recent reintroduction of rules requiring masks on public transport. Mr Khan said: "I' m really pleased the government changed their mind on taking away our powers โฆ on 19 July we had good compliance, once the government changed the rules on 19 July I'm afraid there were fewer people wearing face masks on public transport. "The good news is, over the last 10 days because we've had ... the ability to issue fines. The number of those wearing face masks on tubes, buses and trams has gone up hugely. ย Source:ย https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-news-uk-latest-live-boris-johnson-party-new-rules-plan-b-covid-12469075 If 90% compliance is true, UK will crush delta and may be able to control spread of omicron until everybody have had their boosters. Caveat: universal mask use has to be implemented in schools. Boosters are absolutely necessary. Edited December 10, 2021 by Upo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,844 Posted December 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Upo said: We need to get over ourselves and start thinking about masks like we think about wearing shoes: You put them on when you step outside and take off when you come back at home. Mask use in Asia is the norm and that is why Japan has crushed delta despite modest restrictions. This ย is so clearly true. I speak toย Japan mostย daysย - theyย are fed up with Covid too - but maskย wearing is simply required etiquette and the polite civilized thingย to do (ratherย like always wearingย indoor slippers even at work)ย - as well as generally following the rules.ย Was it called the 'Miracle' of Japan a few weeks ago in the media. Whether it will hold up againstย Omicron is another thing butย it canย only help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,323 Posted December 10, 2021 30 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: This ย is so clearly true. I speak toย Japan mostย daysย - theyย are fed up with Covid too - but maskย wearing is simply required etiquette and the polite civilized thingย to do (ratherย like always wearingย indoor slippers even at work)ย - as well as generally following the rules.ย Was it called the 'Miracle' of Japan a few weeks ago in the media. Whether it will hold up againstย Omicron is another thing butย it canย only help. Absolutely Iโve been wearing my masks (high grade, not a face covering) for two years including at Carrow Road on my visits,ย throughout the two years now. But when the inane politicians canโt even be bothered to wear them in parliament what does that say about them all? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Upo said: ย Far from it, because we have a tool which is superior to any vaccine or in fact any measure there is or ever will be: High grade masks. How effective are masks? 95-99% effective -> both ways. FFP2 (95% filtration): 1 / 0.05 x 0.05 = 400. -> From one person wearing a ffp2 mask to another wearing a ffp2 mask, it takes 400 times longerย to deliver the same number of viral particles from one to the other compared to not wearing any masks FFP3 (99% filtration): 1/ 0.01 x 0.01 = 10000 -> 10000 times longer to deliver same number of particles Do you get it now? We need to get over ourselves and start thinking about masks like we think about wearing shoes: You put them on when you step outside and take off when you come back at home. Mask use in Asia is the norm and that is why Japan has crushed delta despite modest restrictions. I've never denied that they don't work but they're certainly not a superior tool to vaccinations. I wear one when required and when I feel its suitable and isn't going to be impractical. Still isn't going to end the pandemic. Or are you thinking we all just wear masks all the time? Edited December 10, 2021 by Tetteys Jig 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,323 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Upo said: ย 1. No. Just wear high-grade masks. Frequent rapid tests at home. 2. No. Goods transportation has little to no impact on spread of disease.ย Frequent rapid tests at home. 3. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA air purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home. 4. No. Just wear high-grade masks, increase ventilation and HEPA purifiers. Frequent rapid tests at home. In addition: - test & trace & quarantine those who have been exposedย fast and decisively - monitor spread of variants with frequent sequencing - Mandate booster shots for all - Test all travelers to and from abroad, repeatedly, even those fully vaxxed.ย Quarantine until neg. result. Mandate daily rapid testing at hotels. ย These measures are extremely cheap compared to alternative of mass death or mass lockdowns. It is extremely stupid that this extremely cost-effective and proven measures have not been implemented yet to full extent. Those points you make are indeed to be followed, totally agreed, theyโre for companies to enforce and pay for and people to implement themselves, you donโt need to be told these things. This government has been utterly focused on themselves led by self promoting selfish guy with no focus on whatโs best for the country, from Brexit to Covid heโs been utterly crap. The only thing we managed to do quicker was the vaccine roll out which others have caught up with. But again youโre points are only relevant to a degree, this virus will still spread even with you measures, as you say delivery systems have little impact, I disagree, the volume off goods going through distribution centres and food production through to shelves and onto customers have massive chances of spreading the virus, you only need a couple with Covid to transmit the virus onto multiple goods, who really wipesย everythingย delivered or from the shops thoroughly before handling them? Itโs the next variant, itโs going to spread as we are notย as a population thatย obedient or disciplinedย as those Asian countries, as mandating vaccines you canโt, as much as I would like to see it from a personal view we live in a culture where freedom comes first. We can and should make it a stigma not to be vaccinated other than health reasons and limit those who choose not to be vaccinated everyday function in society, push them to be vaccinated, after all they also have a duty of care under living in society for others. Edited December 10, 2021 by Indy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,844 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Indy said: Those points you make are indeed to be followed, totally agreed, theyโre for companies to enforce and pay for and people to implement themselves, you donโt need to be told these things. This government has been utterly focused on themselves led by self promoting selfish guy with no focus on whatโs best for the country, from Brexit to Covid heโs been utterly crap. The only thing we managed to do quicker was the vaccine roll out which others have caught up with. But again youโre points are only relevant to a degree, this virus will still spread even with you measures, as you say delivery systems have little impact, I disagree, the volume off goods going through distribution centres and food production through to shelves and onto customers have massive chances of spreading the virus, you only need a couple with Covid to transmit the virus onto multiple goods, who really wipesย everythingย delivered or from the shops thoroughly before handling them? Itโs the next variant, itโs going to spread as we donโt as a population are not as obedient or disciplinedย as those Asian countries, as mandating vaccines you canโt, as much as I would like to see it from a personal view we live in a culture where freedom comes first. We can and should make it a stigma not to be vaccinated other than health reasons and limit those who choose not to be vaccinated everyday function in society, push them to be vaccinated, after all they also have a duty of care under living in society for others. The crunch comes Indy if the NHS has to startย to pick and chooseย whoย it can treatย (triage). Personally whenย it comes to that - no vaccineย - then back of the queue (plus box of paracetamol).ย It was their choice. Edited December 10, 2021 by Yellow Fever 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites