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Supermarkets jumping the gun. 

Our local Tesco has no-one at the door counting you in and out but still has gel inside the door. And no having to follow arrows up each aisle.

Aldi has abandoned the check in and taken away the gel.

Wilko has doubled how many can be in the store at anyone time and no-one is on the door.

Boots pharmacy still following one in at a time thank goodness (but still managing to lose my repeat prescription for the third month out of four) but still giving everyone the same pen to sign the forms.

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Supermarkets jumping the gun. 

Our local Tesco has no-one at the door counting you in and out but still has gel inside the door. And no having to follow arrows up each aisle.

Aldi has abandoned the check in and taken away the gel.

Wilko has doubled how many can be in the store at anyone time and no-one is on the door.

Boots pharmacy still following one in at a time thank goodness (but still managing to lose my repeat prescription for the third month out of four) but still giving everyone the same pen to sign the forms.

That has been my point,

Inconsistency over information, and required action

But, bleat the sheep ...... a bit of coloured cloth will ward of 'all ye plagues and ye foul nastiness'

Your comment suggests that the shops are able to do this as there is no demand/expectation from customers - which further suggests they are not practising any real safe distancing or strict hygiene habits in this regard

 

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3 hours ago, Bill said:

That has been my point,

Inconsistency over information, and required action

But, bleat the sheep ...... a bit of coloured cloth will ward of 'all ye plagues and ye foul nastiness'

Your comment suggests that the shops are able to do this as there is no demand/expectation from customers - which further suggests they are not practising any real safe distancing or strict hygiene habits in this regard

 

None apart from odd individuals. At least when you followed a route you were all facing away from each other. Now people are feeling loose fruit and vegetables and putting them back.

Trouble is all the fruit and veg at the greengrocers is loose so cannot be trusted.

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It's all about the economy now

If infections rise then there is enough capacity to cope those for a bit

senile brexiteers and 'oop north' brexiteer are no longer needed

and as there will be plenty of newly unemployed 'gammon fodder' then full tilt ahead

get those tills ringing, and those factories clanking

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This doesn't look good

I hope this doesn't turn out to be right  but if it does, it doesn't look good for the herd immunity theory 

It makes me think - if the common cold and flu can re-infect many times, why not covid-19?

Hopefully a working vaccine will be developed, even if people need 3 shots a year, or something similar. Or covid-19 loses its potency and becomes nothing more dangerous than a cold 🤞

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The herd immunity stuff was promoted here by Cummings and his idiotic calculations.

The same numpty 'science' that has the not too bright believing that you can determine the potential of a football player by counting the distance he runs and the direction of the passes he makes etc

It was this crackpot stuff that caused the UK to delay closing down, and so suffering one of the worst virus death tolls in the world

History has shown us where things can be taken when people are simply reduced to numbers

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

This doesn't look good

I hope this doesn't turn out to be right  but if it does, it doesn't look good for the herd immunity theory 

It makes me think - if the common cold and flu can re-infect many times, why not covid-19?

Hopefully a working vaccine will be developed, even if people need 3 shots a year, or something similar. Or covid-19 loses its potency and becomes nothing more dangerous than a cold 🤞

I'm afraid there have been so many mixed messages, wrong calls and even lack of attention to detail that I will not believe anything is set in stone until it eventually happens.

Antibodies, immunities and vaccines are so far unknown to be valid that I find myself thinking that we just have to wait it out with as much attention to personal hygiene and care as we think appropriate. Frankly, some people are just doing what they want anyway.

Edited by keelansgrandad

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Johnson: masks should be worn. 

Gove: masks are not necessary. 

Johnson: masks should be worn.

Which is it you useless pair of ***? 

 

Who voted for these clowns? 

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17 minutes ago, Herman said:

Johnson: masks should be worn. 

Gove: masks are not necessary. 

Johnson: masks should be worn.

Which is it you useless pair of ***? 

 

Who voted for these clowns? 

We might find out in a "few days" apparently.

By which time.....

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More silly nonsense

If shops, then why not pubs and restaurants ?

"Data collected by Tube staff shows that an average of 700 to 800 passengers a day travel without face coverings. However, there are fears staff only record a proportion of passengers without masks, with one Tube worker saying there are so many that staff have lost interest in recording all they see." 10th July

Telling people to put a bit of ill fitting cloth over their faces is about as much use as carrying a pose of flowers near your nose to avoid the plague.

Anyone who has been in a shop will know folk are free to pick up and put stuff down, there is no distancing or requirement to wash your hands. Even trolleys and baskets are no longer being cleaned

Yesterdays cricket saw players hitting hands (palms) and absurd advice on numbers meeting together has long been ignored.

Yet, like some Harry Potter cloak of invisibility a silly bit of cloth avoids more rigorous preventative measures, perhaps then folk should be encouraged to simply cross their fingers instead

 

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We need a strong public health message about the value of wearing mask, unambiguous and backed by regulation as it seems some are too stupid to grasp the importance. 

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Posted (edited)

yep, after all no medical staff wearing the best mask available have died - or even become infected, have they ?

no one in countries where this silliness is practised has died or become infected either have they ?

unfortunately those not too bright will continue to put their trust in any form of comfort blanket that 'master' tells them to use

 

ps how strange that hand crank should just happen to log in a minute after I had posted my first comment about wearing a mask

just another one of those 'coincidences', I suppose 🤔

still, the clock strikes 2, the penny farthing calls and hand crank is here with his lies

 

so toodle pip old fruits - enjoy hand crank and his cloak of many names

au revoir M. Le Crank

 

Edited by Bill

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9 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We need a strong public health message about the value of wearing mask, unambiguous and backed by regulation as it seems some are too stupid to grasp the importance. 

I completely agree but when you say 'some are too stupid to grasp the importance' I suspect you are primarily referring to the public but I'm afraid the government and senior NHS management are even more culpable (or stupid, hard to say which) - my daughter is still working on a Corvid ward as she has been from the very start of the crisis but now the numbers are significantly reduced they are again treating their standard respiratory cases as well as Covid patients.

However 3 or 4 weeks ago (at least) the Trust ran out of the only design of mask which is both safe and fits her (and a good number of her colleagues) properly and the Trust has failed or can't source any more. As a result of which she is still doing her shifts but can't do her job properly because she can't go into any room in which a Covid patient is being treated.

I stress that this is a situation that has been going on for weeks and weeks, and is affecting not just her but a significant proportion of her colleagues. IMO for this to be going on 4 (6?) months after the start of the crisis and long after we have been repeatedly assured by the government that the PPE shambles has been sorted and yet it still goes on in a major city teaching hospital beggars belief, or least it would do if we hadn't become so totally accustomed to the lies and the incompetance of this government.

 

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

yep, after all no medical staff wearing the best mask available have died - or even become infected, have they ?

no one in countries where this silliness is practised has died or become infected either have they ?

unfortunately those not too bright will continue to put their trust in any form of comfort blanket that 'master' tells them to use

 

ps how strange that hand crank should just happen to log in a minute after I had posted my first comment about wearing a mask

just another one of those 'coincidences', I suppose 🤔

still, the clock strikes 2, the penny farthing calls and hand crank is here with his lies

 

so toodle pip old fruits - enjoy hand crank and his cloak of many names

au revoir M. Le Crank

 

Nothing in that load of tripe worth responding to🧐

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1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I completely agree but when you say 'some are too stupid to grasp the importance' I suspect you are primarily referring to the public but I'm afraid the government and senior NHS management are even more culpable (or stupid, hard to say which) - my daughter is still working on a Corvid ward as she has been from the very start of the crisis but now the numbers are significantly reduced they are again treating their standard respiratory cases as well as Covid patients.

However 3 or 4 weeks ago (at least) the Trust ran out of the only design of mask which is both safe and fits her (and a good number of her colleagues) properly and the Trust has failed or can't source any more. As a result of which she is still doing her shifts but can't do her job properly because she can't go into any room in which a Covid patient is being treated.

I stress that this is a situation that has been going on for weeks and weeks, and is affecting not just her but a significant proportion of her colleagues. IMO for this to be going on 4 (6?) months after the start of the crisis and long after we have been repeatedly assured by the government that the PPE shambles has been sorted and yet it still goes on in a major city teaching hospital beggars belief, or least it would do if we hadn't become so totally accustomed to the lies and the incompetance of this government.

 

The whole PPE thing is a shambles, we agree on something😁

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2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I completely agree but when you say 'some are too stupid to grasp the importance' I suspect you are primarily referring to the public but I'm afraid the government and senior NHS management are even more culpable (or stupid, hard to say which) - my daughter is still working on a Corvid ward as she has been from the very start of the crisis but now the numbers are significantly reduced they are again treating their standard respiratory cases as well as Covid patients.

However 3 or 4 weeks ago (at least) the Trust ran out of the only design of mask which is both safe and fits her (and a good number of her colleagues) properly and the Trust has failed or can't source any more. As a result of which she is still doing her shifts but can't do her job properly because she can't go into any room in which a Covid patient is being treated.

I stress that this is a situation that has been going on for weeks and weeks, and is affecting not just her but a significant proportion of her colleagues. IMO for this to be going on 4 (6?) months after the start of the crisis and long after we have been repeatedly assured by the government that the PPE shambles has been sorted and yet it still goes on in a major city teaching hospital beggars belief, or least it would do if we hadn't become so totally accustomed to the lies and the incompetance of this government.

And there is an example of why this 'fancy dress' malarky should be exposed for what it is. Window dressing... and dangerous at that, as all other precautions have gone out of the window.

But hark, tell the gormless that a bit of cloth will ward of 'ye nastinesses' and it is their fault if it doesn't. Which given the likelihood of a rise in infections not long down the road the government are pushing this idiocy - but not pushing the means to enforce it.

Meanwhile, as above, health workers continue to be put at risk by the is bunch of liars. Yep, £10 off a meal - but continuing shortage of masks etc for health workers.

£1.5bn to save theatres but far call for operating theatres.

A government more concerned with covering its ar se, than safely covering health workers

But then, while it still has lick spittles believing, and regurgitating, every word then it will continue.

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Have a listen to Dr Soo Aleman on Sweden and Herd Immunity:

We hear a lot about Sweden’s experience of Covid-19, with the New York Times declaring this week that that country is now “the world’s cautionary tale.”

But what’s it really like on the ground?

Dr Soo Aleman has been both on the front lines of the Covid-19 epidemic as a senior physician at Stockholm’s leading Karolinska hospital, and on the research side, as Assistant Professor at the Karolinska Institute and one of a group that last week published new data around T-cell immunity.

We talked to her about the findings of that study, and how it matches what she is seeing in her hospital.

Link to the Karolinska Institute T Cell study:

https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-...

Key quotes:

“Intensive care units are getting empty, the wards are getting empty, we are really seeing a decrease — and that despite that people are really loosening up. The beaches are crowded, social distancing is not kept very well ... but still the numbers are really decreasing. That means that something else is happening – we are actually getting closer to herd immunity. I can’t really see another reason.”

“I can’t say if the Swedish approach was right or wrong – I think we can say that in one or two years when we are looking back. You have to look at the mortality over the whole period.”

“I don’t think that we have more new cases, I think we are just detecting more cases”

“We found that if you have a mild case you can be negative for antibodies afterwards … in those almost all of them had strong T-cell activity. This study says that there are cases that you can have a strong T-cell response even though you have not had antibodies, meaning that you have encountered the virus and built up immunity.”

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Posted (edited)

Along the lines of getting fitter to be more resilient against C19 here is some well-timed inspiration. I've been out tonight and scaled the local stone wall of the playing fields myself (and in slow motion too). Get fit and in trim with Matt. 1.6m are inspired already.

 

 

Edited by sonyc

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21 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Indeed. Zoonotic diseases have been periodically talked about since the pandemic began. You wonder though whether the world will improve the regulation of food systems. Already it appears even in the UK we are heading in the opposite direction because it will all become a race for increased productive capacity and profit. I'm sceptical really.

Yet as mentioned in this thread before at the local level there are signs of a greater concern for quality and shall I say, a more distributive system in terms of the sharing of revenue for producers. 

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4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Yet as mentioned in this thread before at the local level there are signs of a greater concern for quality and shall I say, a more distributive system in terms of the sharing of revenue for producers. 

The problem there is while that is commendable so many do not have the choice, simply through lack of money

And even the rest will find it harder if filth from the US is imported whereby you will not know where it came from and how it was produced

How will you know what your children are being fed, what you are being fed in hospital or simply in a restaurant.

It will need a massive fight back by those concerned to stop this stuff entering the food chain, and to work towards ensuring others have the advice and the ability to eat more safely

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11 minutes ago, Bill said:

The problem there is while that is commendable so many do not have the choice, simply through lack of money

And even the rest will find it harder if filth from the US is imported whereby you will not know where it came from and how it was produced

How will you know what your children are being fed, what you are being fed in hospital or simply in a restaurant.

It will need a massive fight back by those concerned to stop this stuff entering the food chain, and to work towards ensuring others have the advice and the ability to eat more safely

Agree with this Bill. Good food quality and choice has never been easy for disadvantaged sections in society. Part of this problem can be tackled by good education. A bigger issue though is absolute poverty and how we approach health inequality (latest Marmot report).

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“Filth from the US” is the sort of remark that doesn’t help progress this debate.

There is however a massive challenge in addressing inequality and protecting the environment and the natural world. 

 The first thing we all need to appreciate is that meat isn’t and shouldn’t be considered a cheap source of protein, if we want it we need to be prepared to pay the true cost of humane production and environmental impact. For many that will make meat unaffordable as a routine source of protein.

There are more and more reasonable alternative products which need much better marketing and rebranding.

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Posted (edited)

Big Quorn fan myself as well as all kinds of beans and pulses. No chlorinated chicken for me.

Anyway in answer to your point VW, it's education as well as branding/marketing.

Edited by sonyc

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8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Big Quorn fan myself as well as all kinds of beans and pulses. No chlorinated chicken for me.

Anyway in answer to your point VW, it's education as well as branding/marketing.

Yep education.

As for chlorinated chicken.....the best mantra is no mass produced chicken whether it be chlorinated or not, unless someone can argue that the way chicken is produced in the U.K. and other European countries is justifiable in terms of welfare or food safety.

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23 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

This doesn't look good

I hope this doesn't turn out to be right  but if it does, it doesn't look good for the herd immunity theory 

It makes me think - if the common cold and flu can re-infect many times, why not covid-19?

Hopefully a working vaccine will be developed, even if people need 3 shots a year, or something similar. Or covid-19 loses its potency and becomes nothing more dangerous than a cold 🤞

Maybe because we can easily measures antibodies we have all given them more importance than they warrant. Perhaps also we need to hear much more about t cells

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