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A couple of transfer rumours...

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9 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

They will need help, sure, but I'm thinking that the team will look pretty similar to what it did last season to start with! Just some additions to the squad and maybe one or two new guaranteed starters.

Yeah, I agree with your sentiment, of course I'm not expecting wholesale changes nor marquee signings but as a few of you have pointed out already we're a little light on cover in vital areas. As far as we can see, when we as Joe Punter are privy to only so much, we've been pipped a few times to players that represent a steal and good cover, like that it's just a bit frustrating and as BP points to above we're only 5 weeks away..

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2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'm hoping it will be pretty much the same because imo they are all capable of stepping up and tyhey deserve it.  Krul has the experience and a full competitive season behind him, the defence is full of talent and experience.   Midfield we are packed with quality and wide and up front we have good options.  With the new players to add competition for places, the team will develop as the season progresses , but at least to start with, a familiar looking team would be very welcome. 

 

I agree to an extent with you. Yes they deserve it, but we will soon see early in the season who will be able to make the step up. Krul has now had one season, one full competitive season under his belt but looked shaky a lot, but grew with confidence throughout the season. With the likes of Aguero bearing down on him, I think he going to be prone to be making errors again and costing us points. I would like to see a new No.1 or someone challenging him for the jersey. You say that our defence is full of experience, but none of them have ever played premiership football, albeit some of them now have international experience which will help with the everyday pressures. The same with the majority of our Midfield. Whilst I agree our current players should be given the opportunity we really need more quality throughout the whole squad.

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I'm convinced they will have to open up the purse at some point... I agree with the remarks that we do not have to change that much and that we need to keep the dynamic... but imo it is clear that the squad needs reinforcing and there's only 5 weeks to go...

I too feel a little bit anxious ... yet we were warned...we can't splash out... which I feel is a big handicap in the PL. Yet it could turn out to be an advantage too... (only time will tell)

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11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'm hoping it will be pretty much the same because imo they are all capable of stepping up and tyhey deserve it.  Krul has the experience and a full competitive season behind him, the defence is full of talent and experience.   Midfield we are packed with quality and wide and up front we have good options.  With the new players to add competition for places, the team will develop as the season progresses , but at least to start with, a familiar looking team would be very welcome. 

 

While I agree that many of the current squad can step up, I feel there are some glaring weaknesses and new players need to be brought in. 

It is incredibly hard to sell the idea of coming to Norwich and being a reserve to good, young players. Especially as many of those players will be offered the chance to be first choice at other clubs, whether in England or abroad. With Krovionvic and Kittel we have seen two players reject Norwich to go to second tier clubs - due to promises of football. 

Ultimately, if Norwich want to improve to squad, it will mean demoting some of the title winner team to the bench. 

It would be a crying shame for Norwich to waste this opportunity in the Prem. If Norwich go down next season it will be goodbye to Aarons, Godfrey, Lewis and Buendia. I’d rather upset a few players and give Norwich the best chance of survival than keep every one happy and then lose some of the best young players Norwich have seen for many years. 

I’m not advocating tearing the whole team up, but Norwich should be looking to get in the best players possible, regardless of who they might displace. 

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1 minute ago, ROBFLECK said:

I too feel a little bit anxious ... yet we were warned...we can't splash out... which I feel is a big handicap in the PL. Yet it could turn out to be an advantage too... (only time will tell)

I think it really depends on what you want and expectations. Being realistic I expect a hell of a task at hand and there will be difficult times . Personally I see it as a bit of an experiment to see what our youth players can do and the start of a journey for the new academy plans; there seems to be more of a focus on future planning than ever before where we'll see the benefits of labours a few seasons from now IF we're to be relegated.

A massive sense of pride in my local club means I don't want us to be forever painted with the 'yo yo' brush of course, I'd love to see us survive this upcoming campaign but it's the little things like cup runs, big team upsets, new ground visits, that you have to take from it in the view the odds are against staying up.

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11 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

While I agree that many of the current squad can step up, I feel there are some glaring weaknesses and new players need to be brought in. 

It is incredibly hard to sell the idea of coming to Norwich and being a reserve to good, young players. Especially as many of those players will be offered the chance to be first choice at other clubs, whether in England or abroad. With Krovionvic and Kittel we have seen two players reject Norwich to go to second tier clubs - due to promises of football. 

Ultimately, if Norwich want to improve to squad, it will mean demoting some of the title winner team to the bench. 

It would be a crying shame for Norwich to waste this opportunity in the Prem. If Norwich go down next season it will be goodbye to Aarons, Godfrey, Lewis and Buendia. I’d rather upset a few players and give Norwich the best chance of survival than keep every one happy and then lose some of the best young players Norwich have seen for many years. 

I’m not advocating tearing the whole team up, but Norwich should be looking to get in the best players possible, regardless of who they might displace. 

I'm not entirely sure it would be. Maybe a couple of those, but not all four. 

Look, we have a way of working under Webber and Farke - I remember you specifically talking about the lack of rotation in Farkes line-ups potentially costing us promotion. In the end we won the title with that lack of rotation.

Ultimately, if Norwich decide to go the way they look to be going (minimal spending), we will have at least some money lying around even with relegation for general improvements throughout the club and protecting the future of it under a self-funded model. The amount of youth signings already kind of tells me thats where the focus is.

You might rather upset a few players, but inside the club it might be seen as counter-productive to us having a positive season. We don't know for a fact that Krovionvic has 'rejected us', just that he's joined West Brom. How far was our interest? And why would we guarantee him significant playing time if he's not better than Buendia or Stiepermann?

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And on top of that, even if we made two or three key signings, we'd still be odds-on for relegation.

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While we should all trust the approach and players that worked so well last season, there is definitely a middle ground with this window. In my opinion, without more quality/depth (and I take my yellow glasses off) - we will likely be relegated. The premier league is absolutely brutal.

We simply need to strengthen in a few positions and I am sure we are trying to do so. For example, we need a quality defensive midfielder to compete with Trybull and it will be very naive in my opinion to rely on Godfrey in that position. He has never (to my knowledge) played there above League 1 standard and to rely on him to compete there in the premier league is hopeful to say the least. 

I am a little worried we are missing out on some targets to (in my opinion) lesser teams, but I trust we have a solid pipeline of options to move on to. I am glad we are not giving targets false promises or over the top wages and I like all the players we have brought in so far. I hope to see at least another 2 permanent transfers on or above the level of Drmic.

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The assumption that all our players will seemlessly step up is naive in my opinion. 

Ryan Sessengon was one of the hottest prospects in English football last season but had a difficult first season in a team that got relegated.

It is entirely to be expected that young players may take some time to adapt or that one or two of Trybull, Zimmerman, Leitner and Pukki struggles to make the step up. We need greater competition in our first XI.

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I think it all depends on what you think is important - staying in the PL or developing the club over a period of years.  Yes, of course we would like to stay in the PL, but not if it means changing everything to do it.  Better to keep as much continuity in the players and the system as possible and gradually develop in that way.......it means we may get relegated and have to lose players....but then look at the way we are bringing in youngsters who know they will get a chance here later on......it is a sustainable scenario for the next few years regardless of what division we are in...and yes it could all be done in the PL if things go well (and there is no reason why not) but if it means we go down at some point we will be in a great position to get up again.

 

 

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Just now, lake district canary said:

I think it all depends on what you think is important - staying in the PL or developing the club over a period of years.  Yes, of course we would like to stay in the PL, but not if it means changing everything to do it.  Better to keep as much continuity in the players and the system as possible and gradually develop in that way

The thing is, staying up will give us the best chance of keeping continuity and developing the team over a number of years.

If we go down I'll be shocked if we can keep any of Aarons, Godfrey and Buendia so we've then got to replace them. 

 

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Just now, king canary said:

The assumption that all our players will seemlessly step up is naive in my opinion. 

Ryan Sessengon was one of the hottest prospects in English football last season but had a difficult first season in a team that got relegated.

It is entirely to be expected that young players may take some time to adapt or that one or two of Trybull, Zimmerman, Leitner and Pukki struggles to make the step up. We need greater competition in our first XI.

Yeah but equally his step up could have ironically been hindered because of a such a disjointed team signing 16 odd players. I also argue that to stay up you don't need all players to step up. You probably need 3 or 4 in different areas of the pitch to carry the rest.

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5 minutes ago, HertsCanary93 said:

While we should all trust the approach and players that worked so well last season, there is definitely a middle ground with this window. In my opinion, without more quality/depth (and I take my yellow glasses off) - we will likely be relegated. The premier league is absolutely brutal.

We simply need to strengthen in a few positions and I am sure we are trying to do so. For example, we need a quality defensive midfielder to compete with Trybull and it will be very naive in my opinion to rely on Godfrey in that position. He has never (to my knowledge) played there above League 1 standard and to rely on him to compete there in the premier league is hopeful to say the least. 

I am a little worried we are missing out on some targets to (in my opinion) lesser teams, but I trust we have a solid pipeline of options to move on to. I am glad we are not giving targets false promises or over the top wages and I like all the players we have brought in so far. I hope to see at least another 2 permanent transfers on or above the level of Drmic.

Re the DM... We've sort of forgotten about Leitner, who was playing in a deeper lying role and really made it his own. People were saying he was the best midfielder in the Championship before the injury.

He isn't as tough in the tackle as someone like Trybull, but plays well there and has the ability to nick the ball away from attacking players and set us on a counter. While I agree we need a double hard b***ard in that position, a midfield enforcer if you will, I am not overly concerned. McLean can play deeper too and has done it well for Scotland recently. I still think we'll sign a CDM and need it, just reminding y'all about Leitner. Who, judging by his IG vids of off season training, is in absolutely magnificent shape for this coming season

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8 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Re the DM... We've sort of forgotten about Leitner, who was playing in a deeper lying role and really made it his own. People were saying he was the best midfielder in the Championship before the injury.

He isn't as tough in the tackle as someone like Trybull, but plays well there and has the ability to nick the ball away from attacking players and set us on a counter. While I agree we need a double hard b***ard in that position, a midfield enforcer if you will, I am not overly concerned. McLean can play deeper too and has done it well for Scotland recently. I still think we'll sign a CDM and need it, just reminding y'all about Leitner. Who, judging by his IG vids of off season training, is in absolutely magnificent shape for this coming season

If Leitner is our back 4's protection I'll be seriously concerned.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, king canary said:

If Leitner is our back 4's protection I'll be seriously concerned.

Not saying he will be. Just that he has played deeper as has Kenny.

Did you read my post properly? Didn't think so...

Edited by BobLoz3

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There is also the need to address that fact that in the Prem Norwich won’t be the ‘aggressor’. 

In the Championship Norwich were the dominate team in pretty much every game. Teams sat deep and looked to counter and Norwich looked to dominate the ball and create chances. 

That won’t continue in the Prem. Norwich will be the team that has to defend and look to counter. They will dominate the ball in far fewer games. The mentality of opposition teams will be totally different - rather than seeing Norwich as one of the top teams, they will now be one of the weakest teams. 

There is a need to rebalance the squad so it is suited for this new challenge. Again, there isn’t the need to tear everything up and start again. But a few key improvements will be needed in key positions in order to deal with the different challenges that will be coming next season. 

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We all know, historically,  we don't finish much business during our preseason tours. But also agree it is the time to have players in to meet and integrate with the team. Webber wants early business and we can all agree.

So hopefully some movement with new additions now. He mentioned getting players settled into housing etc.

The German tour, I recall, so far has 1 confirmed preseason game, with 2 games not confirmed as of yet. Then our return has 4 games prior to the start of the season. 

We do need to being in a few to help and ease some pressure on many of our young stars. I still think DM and AM are key positions, but agree we already have very different central midfield options.

RB cover I hope still comes in and we are obviously still looking for a GK option. We have £££ to spend and clearly being quiet about those enquiries.

It's going to be a very interesting month and especially to see what the team looks before the games in the UK we cannot be chasing signings then.

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12 minutes ago, king canary said:
13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I think it all depends on what you think is important - staying in the PL or developing the club over a period of years.  Yes, of course we would like to stay in the PL, but not if it means changing everything to do it.  Better to keep as much continuity in the players and the system as possible and gradually develop in that way

The thing is, staying up will give us the best chance of keeping continuity and developing the team over a number of years.

If we go down I'll be shocked if we can keep any of Aarons, Godfrey and Buendia so we've then got to replace them. 

The premise of the club is building from the youth side of things...and that is of paramount importance to the progress of the club. Yes, obviously it would be nice to keep the three you mention, but even if we stay up, the likelihood is that they would go to a bigger club because they had prioved they could do it at the top level.  So it doesn't matter...players will come and go whatever division we are in...and if players go elswhere we will have more young players coming throught to take their place. 

Don't forget the club is set up as a fantastic place for young players to come to - and because of that we can attract the best....those that see their chances of career development being enhanced by being at Norwich rather than some big club where they would have less chance of getting to the first team.  The future is bright because of that, regardless of being in the  PL or the championship.

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9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The future is bright because of that, regardless of being in the  PL or the championship.

That much is true. Again, never before have I seen the club holistically prepare for the future - it's great

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2 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

There is also the need to address that fact that in the Prem Norwich won’t be the ‘aggressor’. 

In the Championship Norwich were the dominate team in pretty much every game. Teams sat deep and looked to counter and Norwich looked to dominate the ball and create chances. 

That won’t continue in the Prem.

It does not have to be like that. It is all about mindset and if we want to carry on dominating matches, we will have to expect to do that and not think we'll have to set up differently.  Last season we were set up - particularly in the first half of the season - to keep the ball more and minimize the ability of attacking sides......but there were plenty of times throughout the season where we had to defend a large amount of times....often going behind too...but we had the ability and know how to get goals. 

So imo, the team knows how to attack, it knows how to defend and it knows how to keep the ball....in short we have the systems in place to carry on as we did last season. Yes, it will be harder, of course it will - and we will have to be better at things than last season - but it doesn't require a change in attitude or sitting deep and countering or whatever.  There will be times where we will have to be resilient, but there were last season too, so in that way it will be no different.  We have nothing to lose - we can go for it.

 

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Ah, so we now have confirmed Shalke as a preseason opponent. I believe we have some very competitive options to get us ready for the premier League. I don't think I have seen such a strong, on paper, preseason challenge before.

Also could make it interesting if we do have interest in Schalke goalkeeper Ralf Fahrmann.

 

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Posted (edited)

Leitner's an interesting one. Pretty sure that before his injury he was statistically one of the very top players in the Championship and I seem to remember Farke commenting that he was breaking records in terms of distances run per game. I also think that other than the dodgy start, our defensive stats were better with Leitner in the team?

The stereotype of a DM is tall, strong and athletic, but you look at the likes of Kante and Gueye it can be more about constant running and closing down and catching players by surprise with your tenacity. Leitner has the class- if he's prepared to really bust a gut every game he could surprise people.

Edited by Mr.Carrow
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Leitner may cover a lot of ground and he may have good defensive stats, but he isn't a defensive midfielder as such. Assuming we continue with the same system, I'd imagine Leitner would play in central midfield alongside a designated ball-winner or destroyer, rather than be that player himself. The priority signing has to be that holding player and I'd imagine we'll probably spend about half of our budget on it.

 

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For a Club in our situation every year in the EPL will be a survival challenge that's why it gets so dull for supporters. 

Money aside it can be a mundane league, especially with sparse games at irregular times. 

I like Webber's comment that the promotion paid for the Colney rebuild. You have to find ways to grow the Club and this, with Academy development is one way. 

We need to grow the stadium and its capacity which is hard for any side but we can only grow that way otherwise little rinsing schemes like 'Membership' are needed to increase revenue. Sponsorship and advertising would increase. 

I have no fear of relegation as the Club is sound. I just want us to have a go. 

I expect certain players to make the step up to the EPL like Buendia but more unexpectedly Stiepermann and Zimmermann. 

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We definitely don't need a change of philosophy or re-balance the squad because were in the Prem.    We have to keep improving and will.   We have to play as a collective and will.    We have to maintain our pressing and believe we can be the aggressor.    Get in the faces of our opponents and rather than sit back we need to 'give it a good go'!....and we will.     We have to trust that collectively, this lot will rise to the challenges.

That's not naive or over-expectant, its our way, it's getting the best out of this squad, it's what Farke does well.   Of course, there are teams where we can't be cavalier, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal will have the ball and we'll have to be patient and organised but to get the best out of our players we have to be offensive.     The main reason we were the aggressors last season wasn't because we had the most quality, (although we did) it was because we pressed the ball so well and were brave enough to keep it under pressure (Leeds away being the perfect example of that).  We will press better as a collective than many teams, we are brave in possession and provided we get a competitive keeper in we will not struggle.   A strong CDM will be a bonus.    

Have to agree, teams will expect to dominate us and that's entirely to our advantage.    Excepting for the top sides, they won't dominate us!   

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Posted (edited)

I agree that we should play our own game in the PL. The double training sessions make our players super fit, which means we can press aggressively throughout games, creating takeaways throughout the pitch, including the attacking third, which led to a lot of goals last season. Though more difficult in the PL, it can be done. 

Also, the pace of our attacking players (now including Drmic and Roberts) means that opposing defences will not be able to press high without becoming vulnerable to pacey counterattacks.

The one tweak I'd like to see is three at the back against top teams or away games in a 3-4-3 formation. When the ball is won though, this shifts to a 2-2-3-3 as one CB, say Godfrey, shifts forward to the DM position as the attacking CM moves forward into the number 10 position to support the attack while the WBs move forward to provide width. If the ball is lost, all players revert to their original positions to defend. This would allow us to be attacking when we have the ball, but then defend effectively when we don't.

 

Edited by Yelloow Since 72

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7 hours ago, king canary said:

The assumption that all our players will seemlessly step up is naive in my opinion. 

Ryan Sessengon was one of the hottest prospects in English football last season but had a difficult first season in a team that got relegated.

It is entirely to be expected that young players may take some time to adapt or that one or two of Trybull, Zimmerman, Leitner and Pukki struggles to make the step up. We need greater competition in our first XI.

Just to defend Sessegnon here...

He ended the season with two goals and six assists in a poor team that finished second-bottom. Out of all players born in or after the year 2000 in Europe's top five leagues, I think only Jadon Sancho with his absolutely ridiculous numbers contributed more in terms of combined goals and assists. I could be wrong because it was before the end of the season that I saw those stats (around March) but I'm not sure if anyone other than Sancho beat Sessegnon's eight.

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42 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Just to defend Sessegnon here...

He ended the season with two goals and six assists in a poor team that finished second-bottom. Out of all players born in or after the year 2000 in Europe's top five leagues, I think only Jadon Sancho with his absolutely ridiculous numbers contributed more in terms of combined goals and assists. I could be wrong because it was before the end of the season that I saw those stats (around March) but I'm not sure if anyone other than Sancho beat Sessegnon's eight.

Not bad.

However I think it is fair to see he didn't make a seamless transition and take the league by storm as many expected- not saying he's not good, just that it isn't a given that talented youngsters stepping up happens without issue.

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Some players might not step up but it's much easier to perform in a team that functions collectively and Fulham definitely did not do that because they spent £100m ripping the teams heart out!     Our heart is beating pretty strong.     

Van Wolfswinkel didn't perform, not because he couldn't step up, but because we couldn't get the ball out of our own half!   Forwards won't score without service.     Similarly, a player that sees a pass quickly and delivers it helps the receiver as they have more time before being closed down... As a unit we are better set up for our players to thrive....     No need for negatives, we've got this!    

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20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not bad.

However I think it is fair to see he didn't make a seamless transition and take the league by storm as many expected- not saying he's not good, just that it isn't a given that talented youngsters stepping up happens without issue.

I agree with that, but I don't think it was necessarily Sessegnon's fault. I think a combination of the fact that Fulham were a bit of a mess and that he was hyped up to a level that he couldn't possibly achieve meant that he was viewed as a bit of a let down. His numbers were actually quite good, but it just seems that some people were expecting even more despite the fact he didn't even turn 19 until after the season finished.

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