The Positive Brexit Thread

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

9 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Fair enough, my point was insufficient in explanation. Because of the ease of import of cheap foreign produce (remember when South African Golden Delicious replaced Cox's Orange Pippins as the consumer's choice, but now replaced by the French version.) English (Kent) apple growers found more profit exporting their superior product to the ME than selling them to the local supermarkets.

It's a miniscule example in the grand scheme of things and probably throws up the complexities of international trade beyond the scope of Brexit.

We need to import less from Europe and produce our own. That Dover often becomes a bottleneck for lorries has often been caused by problems on the French side (unions apparently.) Let's hope form filling no more hampers this business than it does on the other borders to the EU.  

Dover is a small town that has to cope with a big load. It thrives on a tightrope too often.

What your advocating is protectionism not 'global free trade Britain' and this is the rubicon at the heart of the Brexit conundrum.

If we are free trade then that means cheap NZ or Oz lamb by example. Sure there may be niche markets for Welsh lamb at twice the price. Ditto for apples. We tend to think (and pay more) for German cars (higher quality ?) than UK ones and so on.

What the SM did was enable free trade amongst like minded peoples and society / values - but with external protections from undercutting by others with practices we didn't like or to protect our rural ways of life (the Welsh hill farmer again!). In a free trade global market they are simply uncompetitive.

 

[Bill 1,788]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

You have clearly Googled in the wrong links. (Sooo transparent.)

At least you avoided insults, Bill.

Have you been working on your spelling lately? It helps you know.

Hahaha.

rather too obvious at times, hand crank

[BroadstairsR 2,190]

 

5 minutes ago, Bill said:

rather too obvious at times, hand crank

Try not to be any more limited than you need to be.

You just make a fool of yourself.

Edited February 1, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Bill 1,788]

at least that state (fool) is achieved by my posting as the one person

your constant referring to me suggests that you have a need to deflect  - and your writing style and approach merely confirms that

time for Barbie Boy to have run out

 

[BroadstairsR 2,190]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

What your advocating is protectionism not 'global free trade Britain' and this is the rubicon at the heart of the Brexit conundrum.

If we are free trade then that means cheap NZ or Oz lamb by example. Sure there may be niche markets for Welsh lamb at twice the price. Ditto for apples. We tend to think (and pay more) for German cars (higher quality ?) than UK ones and so on.

What the SM did was enable free trade amongst like minded peoples and society / values - but with external protections from undercutting by others with practices we didn't like or to protect our rural ways of life (the Welsh hill farmer again!). In a free trade global market they are simply uncompetitive.

 

I'm not the advocating sort. Neither do I see producing more of our own as 'protectionism.'

I always admired Huskisson actually, although he should have protected himself more when stepping upon a railway line.

As for Welsh Hill farmers? They protect everything their grandmother's taught them, from their country, their stew, their language and their sheep. One once took a shot at my dog (on its lead) because those 'English dogs' worried his sheep.

[BroadstairsR 2,190]

11 minutes ago, Bill said:

at least that state (fool) is achieved by my posting as the one person

your constant referring to me suggests that you have a need to deflect  - and your writing style and approach merely confirms that

time for Barbie Boy to have run out

 

Excuse me!

You, yes small-minded you, first replied to one of my postings. I had made a point of conveniently forgetting about you. There's only so much nonsense one can take, even if your squirming duplicity and gymnastically inspired defensiveness  is rather amusing. 

As for your strange need to accuse others of your very own habit of assuming a multitude of personae, the owners of this forum will know the truth of that nonsense. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

41 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I'm not the advocating sort. Neither do I see producing more of our own as 'protectionism.'

I always admired Huskisson actually, although he should have protected himself more when stepping upon a railway line.

As for Welsh Hill farmers? They protect everything their grandmother's taught them, from their country, their stew, their language and their sheep. One once took a shot at my dog (on its lead) because those 'English dogs' worried his sheep.

Well if you are advocating Free Trade (or skant protections) ala Huskisson and let the market decide have you told all the other Brexiteers?

I've said several times on here I can see how Brexit can economically work if we have similar entrepreneurial rules as for instance the USA. Hire 'em fire 'em. However my guess is that isn't what most Brexiteers that are working as opposed to pensioners voted for !

It seem like we can both agree or have little sympathy with Welsh Hill farmers. Perhaps we can rewild large parts.

[Herman 9,804]

A good opinion piece for a five minute read.

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/01/how-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster/

I took the sweary bit off as it offends the sensitive Rocky. Maybe he'd like to comment on the rest?!

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Herman

[Well b back 3,250]

4 hours ago, paul moy said:

Ah so you know that there is no SA variant throughout the whole of the EU ?    I bet there is.

There are now reports that SAGE told the government to close the borders several weeks ago, the clown ignored them.

Are you saying they are lying ?. 

[Bill 1,788]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Excuse me!

You, yes small-minded you, first replied to one of my postings. I had made a point of conveniently forgetting about you. There's only so much nonsense one can take, even if your squirming duplicity and gymnastically inspired defensiveness  is rather amusing. 

As for your strange need to accuse others of your very own habit of assuming a multitude of personae, the owners of this forum will know the truth of that nonsense. 

I should stop digging if I were you hand crank, as it will not have gone unnoticed that by most on here that it was you who made two comments about me, even though I have been away from the forum for a couple of days

One accusing me of being horsefly, and the other about spelling. For those not aware it was the misspelling of certain words that was one of the ways of confirming who else hand crank posted as.

Of course, bedstains, being fussed about this is a mere coincidence - just as bedstains is one of the Self Righteous Sisters  who had previous threads of mine taken down, and joined in the condemnation of my 'despicable acts' of suggesting where fellow City fans might watch games...is again. mere coincidence. Nothing to do with a grudge...of course not.

And that bedstains tone of argument above, just happens to be the same as that if hand crank is just another one of these coincidences we have to believe ☺️

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

A good opinion piece for a five minute read.

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/01/how-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster/

This puts it a bit more succinctly.

 

Seriously though, Hermie. If the European Movement (patron: Michael Heseltine), has become this bunch of sweary, middle-class liberals, it's all become very, very sad. Like a wounded dog, it needs to be put out of its misery, don't you think?

[Surfer 1,547]

Its rather pathetic really. This thread is supposed to be about positive effects of Brexit, but there are none. Clearly there are none as nobody - either pro or anti - can yet specify anything. 

Instead we have apologists blaming everyone else for anything they can think up. 

Just like the MAGA crowd in America, just very sad lonely people.  

[Herman 9,804]

This is why we are sweary.

[Herman 9,804]

Another leading, once world class, British industry.

 

[horsefly 4,310]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Another leading, once world class, British industry.

 

Sadly the web has become awash with SMEs screaming about the Brexit disaster deal that is threatening their very existence. Many of those are angry with themselves for having been sucked in by the Brexit liars who promised them riches but delivered chaos and ruin. When Boris said "Fu*ck business" who was to know that this would be the one promise he would keep

[SwindonCanary 455]

On 19/12/2019 at 17:52, kick it off said:

On the plus side, we have got all these amazing trade deals to do around the world. Look at the one that the USA has just done.

Now, let's not pretend we'll be able to get deals as good as this, but maybe an insight of what's to come under Boris..

Thanks for that prediction 

[Icecream Snow 761]

Interesting interview with Phil Hammond about Theresa May's lack of substance behind her Brexit policies

 

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

33 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Interesting interview with Phil Hammond about Theresa May's lack of substance behind her Brexit policies

 

 

Undoubtedly the ruling out any form of softer more sensible Brexit was the moment disaster struck for the UK. From that point on it was all myth and unicorns removed from practical realities.

Such an early move would of held the country, now literally, together and averted all the issues that we are now seeing for all industries including the NI, fisherman and farmers.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[Van wink 2,994]

No Brexit deal would have got through the last Parliament imo.

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

9 minutes ago, Van wink said:

No Brexit deal would have got through the last Parliament imo.

There have been two parliaments. After the referendum in 2016 IF TM had said it's a close result and gone for a 'Norway' or 'Swiss' style most remainers would of accepted and indeed most Quitters. It would of been an action that reflected best the countries choices.

She dug herself, and then the country an elephant trap which Johnson and RWNJ fell straight into. We're still there.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[PurpleCanary 5,577]

52 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Interesting interview with Phil Hammond about Theresa May's lack of substance behind her Brexit policies

 

The Hammond interview also explodes the crackpot notion (rated at 11.5 out of 10 on the Marjorie Taylor Greene Scale of Total Crackpottedness) advanced here in singular and idiosyncratic fashion that May was an avowed Remainer who as prime minister conspired behind the scenes to stop Brexit happening. As Hammond explains, she had only been a lukewarm Remainer and once in Downing Street saw it as her clear duty to implement the result of the referendum.

''I think that she will have been – she was – very conscious of the fact that she had been nominally a Remainer, although extremely reluctant to put her head above the parapet. That will be partly because, I expect, a lot of her core support in her own constituency would have been pro-Brexit. She was about to become Prime Minister of a country that had just voted to Leave, as well as leader of a party that had clearly, in some significant numbers, voted to Leave. So she wanted to lead the party.

'Theresa has always been "country and party first, ideology very much second". So, I think she saw her task as to unite – in very grand vision terms, in a way that looks a bit ambitious to put it mildly, with the benefit of hindsight – to unite the country behind a vision of the future that included leaving the European Union, protecting the economy, building a better Britain, etc, etc, etc.' 

[PurpleCanary 5,577]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

There have been two parliaments. After the referendum in 2016 IF TM had said it's a close result and gone for a 'Norway' or 'Swiss' style most remainers would of accepted and indeed most Quitters. It would of been an action that reflected best the countries choices.

She dug herself, and then the country an elephant trap which Johnson and RWNJ fell straight into. We're still there.

BF and I have a rare disagreement on this. I think if May had gone for leaving the single market but staying in a customs union, which was the Labour position, she might have got that through. But as has been said she went Total Brexit.

[Van wink 2,994]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

There have been two parliaments. After the referendum in 2016 IF TM had said it's a close result and gone for a 'Norway' or 'Swiss' style most remainers would of accepted and indeed most Quitters. It would of been an action that reflected best the countries choices.

She dug herself, and then the country an elephant trap which Johnson and RWNJ fell straight into. We're still there.

Yes of course two parliaments, the latter was never going to agree anything. 
May made a huge political blunder calling the election, all part of history now.

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

4 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

BF and I have a rare disagreement on this. I think if May had gone for leaving the single market but staying in a customs union, which was the Labour position, she might have got that through. But as has been said she went Total Brexit.

 

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yes of course two parliaments, the latter was never going to agree anything. 
May made a huge political blunder calling the election, all part of history now.

Yes - I think the whole country after the ref thought we'd do a softer Brexit. It was indeed what many Brexiteers had actually argued for and said we should do (even stay in the SM)!

Yes May made devastating errors and we are where we are not helped by an inept Corbyn  and opposition at the time.

[PurpleCanary 5,577]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Yes - I think the whole country after the ref thought we'd do a softer Brexit. It was indeed what many Brexiteers had actually argued for and said we should do (even stay in the SM)!

Yes May made devastating errors and we are where we are not helped by an inept Corbyn  and opposition at the time.

Yes, they did, but on the basis that the EU would somehow not insist on the UK accepting freedom of movement!

[Herman 9,804]

Hammond's view of David Davis is worth a read too. 😀

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

42 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, they did, but on the basis that the EU would somehow not insist on the UK accepting freedom of movement!

True - I forgot that nonsense !

[A Load of Squit 5,199]

38 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hammond's view of David Davis is worth a read too. 😀

It's amazing how they kept believing the 'they need us more than we need them' argument even when it wasn't working.

 

[Van wink 2,994]

51 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, they did, but on the basis that the EU would somehow not insist on the UK accepting freedom of movement!

We could have remained in the single market and toughened up on the implementation of worker registration, sending back those that don't find work etc, the sort of thing that other EU members do, maybe with some additional controls to be sold as a big win. There could have been a package, a soft Brexit. But hey ho!

[Yellow Fever 3,812]

11 minutes ago, Van wink said:

We could have remained in the single market and toughened up on the implementation of worker registration, sending back those that don't find work etc, the sort of thing that other EU members do, maybe with some additional controls to be sold as a big win. There could have been a package, a soft Brexit. But hey ho!

Undoubtedly we've been sold a lemon - and many are still too proud to admit it even when the results are staring them in the face. Hence they grasp at the vaccine roll out / EU debacle as a great victory when in truth its nothing of the sort and given a month or two will be of little consequence to the long term future of the country