The Positive Brexit Thread

[Well b back 3,208]

13 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Also, our purchase of the vaccine fridges gave us a head start. Apparently the EU still does not have them and as we know they are absolutely essential to the Pfizer -80C vaccine ... 😎

So when this was a story on a different thread in July why did you not comment then ?  We were arguing that we needed to invest in these things, didn’t see you demanding the government followed the opinions of the scientists.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Well b back
Added to

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

42 minutes ago, Well b back said:

As Hungary and Germany ( with their extra Pfizer order ) have just shown. 
For the record I will state Sputnik V will be the next vaccine everybody is fighting over, especially if the new trials with Oxford are as successful as the Lab tests suggest.

 

41 minutes ago, horsefly said:

The answer to one and two is YES. That should have already been clear to you from me citing what Dr Raine said. Indeed all countries within the EU were able to do so, so I'm not sure why you think these questions relevant.

 

Yes you are both correct.

I find the whole saga depressing and just being used for cheap ignorant political nay-saying.

No doubt there would of been some pressure to join the EU system - but at the same time if we'd joined (and we could of still opted out) we would of pushed them to accept an 'emergency ' authorization with all the commercial risks involved. Our gamble paid off by a few weeks largely due to AZ falling over in Europe. Thank God the Germans/Belgians didn't do the same and insist Pfizer was for them first! Many on here would still be waiting.

More generally, the majority of the UK do not fall into one of the priority groups and so I guess can only wonder in dismay when they will be vaccinated. The story may and likely will be very different in the summer when many more are available - Jansen and Novax, Modena etc. Let's hope a new variant doesn't emerge to negate all the current ones!

As to UVL and art. 16. Frankly she should resign. And in that I suspect is the large difference between the average Remainer and Brexiteer - most Remainers will forcibly criticize the EU when deserved. They are rational.

Anyway - back on Monday to the usual battle with Brexit inspired red tape delays.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Anyone watch Andrew Marr and his interview with the Taoiseach?

Very calm replies and precise replies to Marrs questions. One of which was that the EU has no problems or procurement from all the other vaccine producers but do have one with AZ. And the problem is regarding the failure in production of enough vaccine to meet the original order.

And when asked about the debacle with Article 16 on Friday he reminded Marr that our own PM was ready to use it two weeks ago to keep food on supermarket shelves in NI.

He also said that that all member nations were free to produce or purchase their own supplies and the EU had ordered en bloc originally because it was expedient to do so. We were still a part of the EU then but chose to go our own way.

He also said that the EU had agreed it waned to take longer to approve the vaccine data and its member nations were always going to be behind the UK in terms of numbers vaccinated. In fact Ireland were sticking to the  3 week period between first and second doses where applicable. In fact, it wasn't a competition.

[The Real Buh 3,439]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Anyone watch Andrew Marr and his interview with the Taoiseach?

Very calm replies and precise replies to Marrs questions. One of which was that the EU has no problems or procurement from all the other vaccine producers but do have one with AZ. And the problem is regarding the failure in production of enough vaccine to meet the original order.

And when asked about the debacle with Article 16 on Friday he reminded Marr that our own PM was ready to use it two weeks ago to keep food on supermarket shelves in NI.

He also said that that all member nations were free to produce or purchase their own supplies and the EU had ordered en bloc originally because it was expedient to do so. We were still a part of the EU then but chose to go our own way.

He also said that the EU had agreed it waned to take longer to approve the vaccine data and its member nations were always going to be behind the UK in terms of numbers vaccinated. In fact Ireland were sticking to the  3 week period between first and second doses where applicable. In fact, it wasn't a competition.

He sounds salty to me, and he should be.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So Moy, if you want to make it a competition because you are accusing the EU of increasing deaths because of the later rollout of the vaccine, explain why we have twice as many deaths as Germany and more than France particularly in he ratio of deaths to cases.

Is it because of Brexit? It would appear so because the data backs up that theory. Especially as over 50000 deaths in the UK have been since November.

[ricardo 7,395]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

He also said that the EU had agreed it waned to take longer to approve the vaccine data and its member nations were always going to be behind the UK in terms of numbers vaccinated. In fact Ireland were sticking to the  3 week period between first and second doses where applicable. In fact, it wasn't a competition.

I think I prefer the story in the German media. Everyone can see there's been a fcuk up but the spin is hardly a surprise.

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how-uk-struck-deal-to-guarantee-vaccine-supply-12204044

Edited January 31, 2021 by ricardo

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

26 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I think I prefer the story in the German media. Everyone can see there's been a fcuk up but the spin is hardly a surprise.

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how-uk-struck-deal-to-guarantee-vaccine-supply-12204044

Thats your choice to believe who you wish. Obviously you believe AZ rather than the EU. I think the sticking point has always been best effort. No-one can deny there was a contract to deliver 100 million doses.

Personally, I believe the quiet way our Government has handled this could equally lead to a conspiracy theory.

I guess it depends on your politics and beliefs.

[The Real Buh 3,439]

34 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thats your choice to believe who you wish. Obviously you believe AZ rather than the EU. I think the sticking point has always been best effort. No-one can deny there was a contract to deliver 100 million doses.

Personally, I believe the quiet way our Government has handled this could equally lead to a conspiracy theory.

I guess it depends on your politics and beliefs.

Remainers, the new anti-vax conspiracy theorists.

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Remainers, the new anti-vax conspiracy theorists.

Huh? Human nature is to mess up. Grown up behavior is to admit it and move on. This entire discussion should be in the Covid thread, and this can thread can focus on the positive (or not) effects of Brexit. This issue isn’t one of those - outside there being an Article 16 in the first place and pro-Brexit newspapers want an anti EU story to push out to their readers. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Surfer

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

40 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Remainers, the new anti-vax conspiracy theorists.

We've got a Shark

[Herman 9,777]

The brexiters are going to be furious when they find out whose signature made it possible for the EU to invoke 16.😉

[The Real Buh 3,439]

42 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Huh? Human nature is to mess up. Grown up behavior is to admit it and move on. This entire discussion should be in the Covid thread, and this can focus in Brexit and it’s impact. This isn’t one of them - outside there bing an Article 15 in the fist place and the pro-Brexit newspapers want an anti EU story to push. 

Somebody get the tinfoil, we got another one.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

The brexiters are going to be furious when they find out whose signature made it possible for the EU to invoke 16.😉

No, this drama of the last few days is supposed to justify Brexit. Rather a small hat peg.

[Surfer 1,547]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

No, this drama of the last few days is supposed to justify Brexit. Rather a small hat peg.

Exactly. The politics of the moment for most “conservative” parties and press is outrage, chaos and victimhood, it’s the smokescreen that enables the behind the scenes deals to be done with their mates and financiers. Classic political corruption in plain sight if you choose to look. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

7 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

What if they had nuclear weapons?

What if they had a Space Laser?

What if they had a crack team of ninja nipple tweakers?

 

 

They could always borrow yours 🤣

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Doesn't this all really boil down to two simple questions?

1) If we were part of the EU would we have been able to opt out of the central procurement programme 

2) if we were part of the EU would we have been able to make our own regulatory decisions regardless of where the European central regulator was with its own process?

I'm not sure if either of you have actually tried to answer these questions.

 

The vaccine rollout wasn't about Brexit until the EU made it about Brexit.

Having lagged behind in the procurement process, the EU looked around for someone to blame and they chose the company AZ and Britain as their deflection targets.

Before the EU threw a strop, the UK was quite happy doing its own thing in vaccinating its citizens, setting up the supply chains and making contracts for supplies of product, without bothering anyone else.

That all changed when the EU set their eyes on our stocks, introducing export bans that would affect the UK alone, and imposed a hard border in Ireland. So no surprise that commentators would make a distinct between the behaviour of a country that has just left the EU and the EU itself.

On the bright side, the EU seems to have backed down and we can get back to focussing on the vaccine rollout and forget about the politics if possible. Great vaxx numbers last couple of days, lets keep this going.

[BigFish 1,988]

Loving the distraction, sure the EU cocked up and the UK vacine programme looks like a possible success (although the law of averages means that the talentless Brexit fools in government were bound to get one eventually). But does that make Brexit anything other than a idiotic act of self harm? I don't thinks so, and neither do the fisherman, exporters, importers, the Northern Irish, hauliers, UK manufacturing, the City. Seems a steady stream of Leave Voters putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong.

[BigFish 1,988]

UK firms plan to shift across Channel after Brexit chaos

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

6 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Loving the distraction, sure the EU cocked up and the UK vacine programme looks like a possible success (although the law of averages means that the talentless Brexit fools in government were bound to get one eventually). But does that make Brexit anything other than a idiotic act of self harm? I don't thinks so, and neither do the fisherman, exporters, importers, the Northern Irish, hauliers, UK manufacturing, the City. Seems a steady stream of Leave Voters putting their hands up and admitting they got it wrong.

One good thing about the distraction, it has given us some blessed relief from all those fake news stories about lorries queueing up at the docks for days on end.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

One good thing about the distraction, it has given us some blessed relief from all those fake news stories about lorries queueing up at the docks for days on end.

Because they don't. They sit in off site car parks waiting their turn. Just because you don't see it on the news anymore doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

32 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The vaccine rollout wasn't about Brexit until the EU made it about Brexit.

Having lagged behind in the procurement process, the EU looked around for someone to blame and they chose the company AZ and Britain as their deflection targets.

Before the EU threw a strop, the UK was quite happy doing its own thing in vaccinating its citizens, setting up the supply chains and making contracts for supplies of product, without bothering anyone else.

That all changed when the EU set their eyes on our stocks, introducing export bans that would affect the UK alone, and imposed a hard border in Ireland. So no surprise that commentators would make a distinct between the behaviour of a country that has just left the EU and the EU itself.

On the bright side, the EU seems to have backed down and we can get back to focussing on the vaccine rollout and forget about the politics if possible. Great vaxx numbers last couple of days, lets keep this going.

Pay attention to the Covid thread. The EU put in an order 

Oh balricks, I can't be bothered to explain it properly again. Your mate Moy didn't understand it. Or if he did he is being predictably stubborn.

[Herman 9,777]

It's easy to understand so they are simply being willfully ignorant. One day they might reach the heights of the gutter.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

48 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The vaccine rollout wasn't about Brexit until the EU made it about Brexit.

 

Not true. As early as the 2nd of December the UK government lied that due to Brexit they were able to rollout the vaccine early.

Dr. June Raine pointed out their deception.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55163730

 

 

[paul moy 235]

5 hours ago, Well b back said:

So when this was a story on a different thread in July why did you not comment then ?  We were arguing that we needed to invest in these things, didn’t see you demanding the government followed the opinions of the scientists.

I was in lockdown in Gambia and had better things to do 😎  🤣

Shame that the EU commissioners don't follow this BB.....

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[paul moy 235]

26 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Not true. As early as the 2nd of December the UK government lied that due to Brexit they were able to rollout the vaccine early.

Dr. June Raine pointed out their deception.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55163730

 

 

Well they rolled it out earlier because they were able to make decisions unhindered by the EU  due to Brexit.  IE: they were not tied by the EU mandate that all states must allow the Commission to place orders and individual states must not place individual orders , in order to show solidarity. If we had been in the EU we would have had to abide by the mandate. 

While the EU dithered under its own bureaucracy the UK were placing vaccine orders right left and centre. 

Thus, when the vaccines were available and approved by the MHRA we beat the EU by months which has really angered them ...... LOL

NB: it is also obvious that the EU avoided buying vaccines in the UK as much as possible, also probably due to their ire over Brexit.   LOL

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[paul moy 235]

5 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

So Moy, if you want to make it a competition because you are accusing the EU of increasing deaths because of the later rollout of the vaccine, explain why we have twice as many deaths as Germany and more than France particularly in he ratio of deaths to cases.

Is it because of Brexit? It would appear so because the data backs up that theory. Especially as over 50000 deaths in the UK have been since November.

The time to compare will be at the end of the pandemic. All countries have made mistakes due to the unprecedented nature of the crisis. At the end I believe we will compare very favourably because of our much faster vaccine rollout.   Also, there are some differences in counting which overinflate our figures in comparison to other countries. Germany for instance do not include deaths at home.

😎

[Well b back 3,208]

45 minutes ago, paul moy said:

I was in lockdown in Gambia and had better things to do 😎  🤣

Shame that the EU commissioners don't follow this BB.....

They did, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany.

In December the UK's vaccine task force said the first doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, used in the initial rollout of the vaccine would be manufactured in Europe. 

The first dose of the vaccines that have been used in the UK were manufactured in the Netherlands and Germany.

[Well b back 3,208]

30 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The time to compare will be at the end of the pandemic. All countries have made mistakes due to the unprecedented nature of the crisis. At the end I believe we will compare very favourably because of our much faster vaccine rollout.   Also, there are some differences in counting which overinflate our figures in comparison to other countries. Germany for instance do not include deaths at home.

😎

So why don’t you wait ? You are using something that went right, to justify the huge number of things that went wrong.

[A Load of Squit 5,170]

 

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/business/2021/01/29/i-made-a-mistake-voting-for-brexit-says-business-as-stock-sits-waiting-to-leave-west-midlands/?fbclid=IwAR3l6b6_-ZXc8gczWiD6TbehpZ5glelCCB50M8dNCIrQOHNPO8MkUWwdKxQ

'I made a mistake voting for Brexit' says business owner as stock sits waiting to leave warehouse

 

[horsefly 4,301]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

 

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/business/2021/01/29/i-made-a-mistake-voting-for-brexit-says-business-as-stock-sits-waiting-to-leave-west-midlands/?fbclid=IwAR3l6b6_-ZXc8gczWiD6TbehpZ5glelCCB50M8dNCIrQOHNPO8MkUWwdKxQ

'I made a mistake voting for Brexit' says business owner as stock sits waiting to leave warehouse

 

Wow! she certainly lays into the Brexit lies. Devastating!