The Positive Brexit Thread

[paul moy 235]

13 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The EU bureaucracy made one (very) short-term tactical blunder that is not relevant to the ruinous (for the UK) trade deal. Meanwhile in actually significant news UK businessses are voting with their feet, by way of the hasty hiring of removal companies, to decamp to countries that are still in the EU.

.. but what if they had and army    ? .... they could have started a war by acting on impulse and irrationality.

They must never be trusted as we've said all along, and many remainers have now thankfully been converted to Brexit as they realise the true face of EU tyranny ...🤗

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

4 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Indeed, such a fiasco from being in charge of ordering our own vaccines causing the EU to invoke Article 16 in a fit of pique for the whole world to see and converting many hitherto remainers and rejoiners into Brexiteers !!!   🤣

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1391388/Tony-Blair-Brexit-news-latest-vaccine-benefit-Sophy-Ridge-video-interview

 

What ever happens it will always be impossible to turn Daily Express readers into sane people. 

[paul moy 235]

18 hours ago, Herman said:

I think you'll find the vast majority of remainers have said the EU ballsed up and are glad they did a quick change before any major damage was done.

Johnson and the Vote Leave government have constantly ballsed up.Response from the serfs:

Actually it is reported that many see Boris's call to VDL as a 'Churchill  or Falklands moment' where he explained that stopping the Pfizer vaccine to the UK will deny many pensioners who are grandmothers and grandfathers their second jabs and will kill many of them.  VDL immediately backed down !!  🤗 

 

Boris is now seen as a winner !!!! 

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[Herman 9,780]

Sorry to deflate Moyotollah's bubble but remainers that think the EU cocked up and remainers that think brexit is a terrible idea is roughly the same. I don't think any have become pro-brexit because of this.

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

5 minutes ago, paul moy said:

.. but what if they had and army    ? .... they could have started a war by acting on impulse and irrationality.

They must never be trusted as we've said all along, and many remainers have now thankfully been converted to Brexit as they realise the true face of EU tyranny ...🤗

What if they had nuclear weapons?

What if they had a Space Laser?

What if they had a crack team of ninja nipple tweakers?

 

 

[Well b back 3,221]

3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Well b back
Mistake

[Herman 9,780]

7 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Actually it is reported that many see Boris's call to VDL as a 'Churchill  or Falklands moment' where he explained that stopping the Pfizer vaccine to the UK will deny many pensioners who are grandmothers and grandfathers their second jabs and will kill many of them.  VDL immediately backed down !!  🤗 

Was that from the Express? And I suppose the previous year of Johnson's reign has been his Gallipoli moment.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Herman

[paul moy 235]

Even David  Cameron has been converted to eurosceptic...... 🤣

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1390382/eu-news-david-cameron-eurosceptic-uk-brexit-vaccine-spt

[Van wink 2,994]

33 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

It all a bit meaning less for any longer term poll.

The vaccine roll out is by definition a 'teething problem' both here and in the EU. Once they start giving AZ jabs in week or so (is it 30M) then it won't be such a hot issue - and certainly in a couple of months the focus will be back to the long term Brexit fiasco and probably the overall 'death' figures. 

Of course Polls are only ever a snapshot and this is a small sample, but this debacle will obviously have influenced views of the EU. I think our relative success in terms of life science strategy/Vaccine will been seen by many is a result of Brexit which it is to some extent. Certainly we could have gone ahead with our own procurement had we still been a member state, but I very much doubt we would have done, you only need to look at the outrage on here when we failed to join the EU procurement, that would have been magnified had we still been in the EU.  Would we have preempted the EMA approval? If not we would have been way behind where we are now. 

[Herman 9,780]

All of those things happened while we were still a member of the EU so I can't see how it we are ahead because of brexit. As has been pointed out, even our early batches that gave us a very good head start came from other EU nations.

It's just a shame the right wing/brexit narrative is always faster out of the block than the real narrative.

[horsefly 4,303]

11 hours ago, Jools said:

I hear Liz Truss is to announce on Monday that the UK is formally applying to join the CPTPP 👍

There's 11 current members and the value of trade in 2020 was approximately $152bn ✔️

Canada
Mexico
Peru
Chile
New Zealand
Australia
Brunei
Singapore
Malaysia
Vietnam
Japan

 

Unlike EU membership, joining does not require the UK to cede control over our laws, borders, or money 👍 

Now, if one subtracted the UK out of the EU and added it to the CPTPP it would relegate the EU to the fourth largest trading block in the world....

Don't tell that to Remainiacs mind, they might get offended.... Oh! Too late 😀

Oh dear! Mr Talking-Bollox is back spouting his usual mis-informed rubbish. One of the main "benefits" of Brexit was supposed to be that we would be able to trade independently of organisations, and thus free of all the bureaucracy that they inevitably require. And yet, Joolsiani, the ardent brexiteer, wants us to join another bureaucratic organisation. Sadly for you Jools, your previous claim that the CPTPP has no commission is ludicrously false. Indeed not only does it have a commission, it also has several committees to determine the extensive rules its members will be required to abide by. And to add insult to injury we already have roll-over deals with the majority of these countries anyway. Oh dear indeed!

And while we're here, perhaps Joolsiani would like to remind us what his hero Trump thought of the CPTPP.

Edited January 31, 2021 by horsefly

[Well b back 3,221]

25 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Even David  Cameron has been converted to eurosceptic...... 🤣

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1390382/eu-news-david-cameron-eurosceptic-uk-brexit-vaccine-spt

Well done.

You have used a strategy around vaccines, which we would have done had we have been in the EU or not, to get away from over 100,000 deaths, and thousands suffering ( at this moment ) from the effects to their businesses of Brexit.

If you would like to put a link up for the rest of his and his wife’s opinions to balance what you have said that would be good.

 

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Well done.

You have used a strategy around vaccines, which we would have done had we have been in the EU or not, to get away from over 100,000 deaths, and thousands suffering ( at this moment ) from the effects to their businesses of Brexit.

If you would like to put a link up for the rest of his and his wife’s opinions to balance what you have said that would be good.

 

The Express quote something that David Cameron said in 2010.

Are you really saying that something that Samantha Cameron said last week would be more relevant?

I'm sure even an economist like Paul would understand that time and context would be important. 😀

[Van wink 2,994]

 

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

All of those things happened while we were still a member of the EU so I can't see how it we are ahead because of brexit. As has been pointed out, even our early batches that gave us a very good head start came from other EU nations.

It's just a shame the right wing/brexit narrative is always faster out of the block than the real narrative.

Have a read of this from the FT

"The UK’s successful vaccines effort is rooted in the development of a life sciences industrial strategy over the past four years, which ensured that the country had the infrastructure and connections to deliver innovative vaccines when the pandemic struck, according to the head of its biotech body. Steve Bates, chief executive of the BioIndustry Association, pointed to the important role of the relationships built through discussions about strengthening life sciences after Brexit. These have ensured close ties between government, academia and industry in the four years since the UK voted to leave the EU. “Everyone knew each other and we had a series of relationships built for a different purpose but they were easily adapted when the crisis came along,” Mr Bates said. The decision in 2018 to establish a Vaccines Manufacturing and Innovation Centre, funded by a mixture of government and industry cash, was a key declaration of intent about the country’s desire to be at the forefront of novel vaccine manufacturing long before coronavirus struck, he added. Map showing key manufacturing locations of vaccines in the UK's portfolio However, VMIC was planned for completion in 2023 — necessitating a quick turn of speed when the pandemic struck. The centre at Harwell near Oxford is now expected to begin work late this year and be fully operational in 2022, after the government pumped in £131m to accelerate the project. Cutting-edge science being developed at Oxford university’s Jenner Institute and Imperial College London, among others, meant “we had some discovery capacity but we knew we needed innovation in turning those scientific ideas into manufacturable vaccines,” he said. “We all worked together — the academic community, the industrial community — to work out how to make this happen at pace and scale”, said Mr Bates. This “coalition of the willing” evolved in April into the Vaccines Taskforce."

[paul moy 235]

How Brexit Britain's early decision-making beat the EU at every stage in vaccine orders, vaccine fridges/freezers  and removed 30% of the bureaucracy  by passing laws to give MHRA sovereignty over EMA.

A very good article indeed which should make us all proud to be British !!!   :  🤗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9205465/We-need-buy-freezers-fast-Thats-Jonathan-Van-Tam-told-No-10-Spring.html

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[horsefly 4,303]

How many times does it have to be repeated that the Chief Executive of the MHRA, Dr June Raine, very explicitly said that Brexit had nothing at all to do with the early roll out of vaccines in the UK. She also very explicitly said that everything the MHRA did fell completely within EU laws. Who to believe Dr Judith Raine or some retarded Daily Mail article? what a toughie!

[Barbe bleu 827]

14 minutes ago, horsefly said:

How many times does it have to be repeated that the Chief Executive of the MHRA, Dr June Raine, very explicitly said that Brexit had nothing at all to do with the early roll out of vaccines in the UK. She also very explicitly said that everything the MHRA did fell completely within EU laws. Who to believe Dr Judith Raine or some retarded Daily Mail article? what a toughie!

Doesn't this all really boil down to two simple questions?

1) If we were part of the EU would we have been able to opt out of the central procurement programme 

2) if we were part of the EU would we have been able to make our own regulatory decisions regardless of where the European central regulator was with its own process?

I'm not sure if either of you have actually tried to answer these questions.

 

[Barbe bleu 827]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Doesn't this all really boil down to two simple questions?

1) If we were part of the EU would we have been able to opt out of the central procurement programme 

2) if we were part of the EU would we have been able to make our own regulatory decisions regardless of where the European central regulator was with its own process?

I'm not sure if either of you have actually tried to answer these questions.

 

Actually i'll put in a third question to be fair to th brexit side.  If it was theoretically possible to opt and and have a fully independent regulatory process would either have been inpractical due to having  no standing agency to do so?

[Well b back 3,221]

18 minutes ago, horsefly said:

How many times does it have to be repeated that the Chief Executive of the MHRA, Dr June Raine, very explicitly said that Brexit had nothing at all to do with the early roll out of vaccines in the UK. She also very explicitly said that everything the MHRA did fell completely within EU laws. Who to believe Dr Judith Raine or some retarded Daily Mail article? what a toughie!

As Hungary and Germany ( with their extra Pfizer order ) have just shown. 
For the record I will state Sputnik V will be the next vaccine everybody is fighting over, especially if the new trials with Oxford are as successful as the Lab tests suggest.

[horsefly 4,303]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Doesn't this all really boil down to two simple questions?

1) If we were part of the EU would we have been able to opt out of the central procurement programme 

2) if we were part of the EU would we have been able to make our own regulatory decisions regardless of where the European central regulator was with its own process?

I'm not sure if either of you have actually tried to answer these questions.

 

The answer to one and two is YES. That should have already been clear to you from me citing what Dr Raine said. Indeed all countries within the EU were able to do so, so I'm not sure why you think these questions relevant.

 

[paul moy 235]

28 minutes ago, horsefly said:

How many times does it have to be repeated that the Chief Executive of the MHRA, Dr June Raine, very explicitly said that Brexit had nothing at all to do with the early roll out of vaccines in the UK. She also very explicitly said that everything the MHRA did fell completely within EU laws. Who to believe Dr Judith Raine or some retarded Daily Mail article? what a toughie!

Of course our independence did make a difference.  We would have been pressured to use the EU joint procurement model otherwise, just as Netherlands, Germany and others were by Frau Merkel who got the relevant Health Secretaries in the EU to write letters of apology expressing their profound regret for  daring to try to do independent procurement :

 

"On June 13, France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands – who had formed the Inclusive Vaccines Alliance – announced a deal for between 300 million and 400 million doses of the AstraZeneca jab, a move which appeared to show that Europe's powerhouses were not afraid to flex their muscles in defiance of EU bureaucrats.

But German Chancellor Angela Merkel, conscious that such a move could undermine the European project, ordered her health minister, along with those of the other nations in the alliance, to write an extraordinary letter to Ms von der Leyen apologising for going it alone. 'We believe that it is of the utmost importance to have a common, single and joint approach,' the ministers wrote.

Merkel had instructed her health minister to 'sound as humble as possible'. The alliance stopped operating, and allowed the EC to lead the talks."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9205465/We-need-buy-freezers-fast-Thats-Jonathan-Van-Tam-told-No-10-Spring.html

 

[paul moy 235]

23 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Doesn't this all really boil down to two simple questions?

1) If we were part of the EU would we have been able to opt out of the central procurement programme 

2) if we were part of the EU would we have been able to make our own regulatory decisions regardless of where the European central regulator was with its own process?

I'm not sure if either of you have actually tried to answer these questions.

 

We all know what the answers are.    It is inconvenient for our remoaning friends to be honest but not many have been honest throughout anyway.

The result of this does not bear thinking about in the number of extra lost lives in the UK.

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[Barbe bleu 827]

10 minutes ago, horsefly said:

The answer to one and two is YES. That should have already been clear to you from me citing what Dr Raine said. Indeed all countries within the EU were able to do so, so I'm not sure why you think these questions relevant.

 

Of course these are the relevant questions. Almost all of the brexit lobby argument is based on us having separate procurement and regulatory functions that, in their view at least, gave us a better portfolio and greater  speed of action. 

So the question is could we have done it alone on either if 2016 didn't happen.

With respect saying approval was in line with EU law doesn't  quite answer the question, it just hints at an answer.

You say any one of the 27 could have done as we did but none did. 

I actually suspect you are at least partially right as Hungary appears to have procured sputnik without EU approval but even that is not conclusive.

 

[paul moy 235]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Of course these are the relevant questions. Almost all of the brexit lobby argument is based on us having separate procurement and regulatory functions that, in their view at least, gave us a better portfolio and greater  speed of action. 

So the question is could we have done it alone on either if 2016 didn't happen.

With respect saying approval was in line with EU law doesn't  quite answer the question, it just hints at an answer.

You say any one of the 27 could have done as we did but none did. 

I actually suspect you are at least partially right as Hungary appears to have procured sputnik without EU approval but even that is not conclusive.

 

The Hungary procurement has been in a recent act of desperation after realising the EU failures on procurement.

[Barbe bleu 827]

4 minutes ago, paul moy said:

We all know what the answers are.    It is inconvenient for our remoaning friends to be honest but not many have been honest throughout anyway.

The result of this does not bear thinking about in the number of extra lost lives in the UK.

Do we? Your last post actually hints that nations were legally able to conduct their own independent procurement operations.

Do you have a similar article that undermines your argument as to regulatory approval?

I dont believe  that either of you actually knows for sure but you enjoy the argument so press ahead regardless !

[A Load of Squit 5,173]

30 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Doesn't this all really boil down to two simple questions?

1) If we were part of the EU would we have been able to opt out of the central procurement programme 

2) if we were part of the EU would we have been able to make our own regulatory decisions regardless of where the European central regulator was with its own process?

I'm not sure if either of you have actually tried to answer these questions.

 

1. Yes, participation was and still is voluntary. We opted out of many programmes in the past without any problems.

2. Yes, we were still in the EU when we made our own regulatory decision.

 

[paul moy 235]

13 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Do we? Your last post actually hints that nations were legally able to conduct their own independent procurement operations.

Do you have a similar article that undermines your argument as to regulatory approval?

I dont believe  that either of you actually knows for sure but you enjoy the argument so press ahead regardless !

The countries were pressured out of independent procurement and had to write letters apologizing to VDL.  Obvious is it not ... JEEZ

... and we passed a law allowing us to bypass EM approval BTW ... from the Mail article :

 

" By December, when the vaccines were ready to be deployed for the first time, Mr Hancock had introduced legal changes to ensure that Britain's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) had full sovereignty over the approval decisions, not the European body."

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[paul moy 235]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

All of those things happened while we were still a member of the EU so I can't see how it we are ahead because of brexit. As has been pointed out, even our early batches that gave us a very good head start came from other EU nations.

It's just a shame the right wing/brexit narrative is always faster out of the block than the real narrative.

Also, our purchase of the vaccine fridges gave us a head start. Apparently the EU still does not have them and as we know they are absolutely essential to the Pfizer -80C vaccine ... 😎

Edited January 31, 2021 by paul moy

[Herman 9,780]

15 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Of course these are the relevant questions. Almost all of the brexit lobby argument is based on us having separate procurement and regulatory functions that, in their view at least, gave us a better portfolio and greater  speed of action. 

So the question is could we have done it alone on either if 2016 didn't happen.

With respect saying approval was in line with EU law doesn't  quite answer the question, it just hints at an answer.

You say any one of the 27 could have done as we did but none did. 

I actually suspect you are at least partially right as Hungary appears to have procured sputnik without EU approval but even that is not conclusive.

 

The answers are still yes.The reason we loudly went alone was more of a brexitty propagandic decision.

[Well b back 3,221]

Wonder what you feel about the possibility of the EU approving Sputnik V within 2 months @paul moy