The Positive Brexit Thread

[paul moy 235]

19 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Ahhh!

I remember the olden days when posts like this were "project fear"

🤗

Not project fear as I predicted this scenario myself as a natural reaction by the French etc to our bid for freedom.  Part of  SHORT TERM  PAIN ......   😎

 

 

[kick it off 1,952]

7 minutes ago, paul moy said:

EU banks in a    'DOOM LOOP'  :  

 

No surprises here but an interesting article :

 

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1381887/eurozone-news-euro-germany-italy-spain-eu-brexit-news-target2-coronavirus?utm_source=express_newsletter&utm_campaign=politics_newsletter2&utm_medium=email

The Beano has more realistic journalism than the Express. 

That's not an "interesting article, it's propaganda from one of about 3 economists in the world who think Brexit is a good idea and specialises exclusively in pension economics not trading or banking or any relevant field of economics.

[SwindonCanary 455]

28 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

it seemed out of line with the majority of the Labour party. I listened to it on Andrew Marr show. 

Keir Starmer crisis: Labour sparks Remainer anger after 'car crash' BBC Marr interview | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I haven't seen the precise wording  of the quote but unless there has been in the meantime a serious and successful move by the current government to make the trade deal much more comprehensive then I would expect a Starmer-led government to open talks with the EU to do just that. And that would in effect be a move back towards the EU.

This would probably be carried out in stages, with the final aim not necesarily full EU membership, but the level just below that. After all it was Farage and other prominent Leavers who extolled the virtue of Norway's very close relationship with the EU...🤓

Having read the quotes now I see Starmer talks about not having major renegotiations but then says he would like the service sector to be included in the deal, which in effect it is not at the moment. Well yes, but there are reasons why that is so, and the EU would probably regard that as a major renegotiation, and certainly want all sorts of conditions before agreeing to it.

As far as I can see all he has specifically ruled out is a return to freedom of movement, and even with that there always was wiggle room that the UK could have got. I don't believe the UK will get back to EU membership any time soon, or likewise even just to a Norway style deal. But I don't see what Starmer has said as being very limiting, should he end up as PM.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

I rather suspect history will think of Farage as more modern but successful/damaging version of Moseley.

Moseley was a junior Labour minister so not a very good comparison. But your example does provide yet another link between socialism and the naztis 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

That's what I'm saying - The issue will resolve itself now and the answer will be obvious. No need to stir the pot now.  

It is heartening to read that the more sensible Remainders accept the Brexit war is over. There will always be a few loons that will never give up and some who will make a career out of it. But hopefully we can all work together now, put our past differences behind us and work to put Britain first. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 hour ago, kick it off said:

The Beano has more realistic journalism than the Express. 

That's not an "interesting article, it's propaganda from one of about 3 economists in the world who think Brexit is a good idea and specialises exclusively in pension economics not trading or banking or any relevant field of economics.

Have you seen how much Foreign Direct Investment has surged into the country since the referendum?

When companies are putting money where there mouth is you have evidence that international business believes UK is the place to be. 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,188]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Having read the quotes now I see Starmer talks about not having major renegotiations but then says he would like the service sector to be included in the deal, which in effect it is not at the moment. Well yes, but there are reasons why that is so, and the EU would probably regard that as a major renegotiation, and certainly want all sorts of conditions before agreeing to it.

As far as I can see all he has specifically ruled out is a return to freedom of movement, and even with that there always was wiggle room that the UK could have got. I don't believe the UK will get back to EU membership any time soon, or likewise even just to a Norway style deal. But I don't see what Starmer has said as being very limiting, should he end up as PM.

EFTA

Problem is, that comes with Freedom of Movement, which is a dirty great big red line for brexiteers

of course, should we end up joining EFTA sometime in the future, we could always ask potential immigrants for bank statements to prove they can support themselves, just like I had to

[BigFish 1,988]

38 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Have you seen how much Foreign Direct Investment has surged into the country since the referendum?

When companies are putting money where there mouth is you have evidence that international business believes UK is the place to be. 

It has fallen in each consecutive year since the referendum and opinion is it fell last year (figures not yet released) and will fall next year. International business is clearly of an opinion that the UK is currently a less attractice place to do business in than it was when it was a member of the EU.

[horsefly 4,301]

6 minutes ago, BigFish said:

It has fallen in each consecutive year since the referendum and opinion is it fell last year (figures not yet released) and will fall next year. International business is clearly of an opinion that the UK is currently a less attractice place to do business in than it was when it was a member of the EU.

Exactly! Just more "Project La-la Land" from Brexiteers desperate to find at least one benefit of the shi*te deal with which they have burdened the country. And I suspect we ain't seen nothing yet.

[SwindonCanary 455]

LO

LoonEducator

The Brexit debate will only be over when one side wins decisively. Interestingly, it was always the Tories who were torn apart by Europe. Now the issue is settled within the Conservative party. It isn't settled in the Labour party.

The more the public turns against Brexit, the more Labour will move to a closer relationship with the EU. At the moment the split is 54/46% against Brexit. If it reaches 65/35 Labour will have no choice but to change its position.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The party is not Starmer. He had a reasonable start because of the Goverments incompetence. But since then has shown nothing other than he is an appeaser.

Party infighting does not stop them winning elections. It is the floating voter who decides who to be believed, trusted or bribed.

Starmer has already recovered some of those floaters. And he is after the rest. He has a boring delivery, Belair would have been feted with his delivery and the Governments ineptitude. But his actions and policies are after the ones he lost due to Corbynism.

So we in the Party have a decision or choice. Do we want to Govern? And do we want to Govern with Starmers Centrist policies? And it isn't exclusively about the EU.

The amount of resignations by activists in my local branch seems to indicate the latter. And personally, I don't like his appeasement and don't, at the moment, understand why he isn't hammering this incompetent bunch in power. If thats the best he can do then he isn't for me.

 

[Van wink 2,994]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The party is not Starmer. He had a reasonable start because of the Goverments incompetence. But since then has shown nothing other than he is an appeaser.

Party infighting does not stop them winning elections. It is the floating voter who decides who to be believed, trusted or bribed.

Starmer has already recovered some of those floaters. And he is after the rest. He has a boring delivery, Belair would have been feted with his delivery and the Governments ineptitude. But his actions and policies are after the ones he lost due to Corbynism.

So we in the Party have a decision or choice. Do we want to Govern? And do we want to Govern with Starmers Centrist policies? And it isn't exclusively about the EU.

The amount of resignations by activists in my local branch seems to indicate the latter. And personally, I don't like his appeasement and don't, at the moment, understand why he isn't hammering this incompetent bunch in power. If thats the best he can do then he isn't for me.

 

I guess I am one of the “floaters” KG, pretty centrist, probably left of centre. I’m ok with him atm but can see why others may not be.

[Herman 9,777]

There's not really a lot Starmer can do until the realities of brexit start hitting home. As can be judged on this forum there are still many that think it was a good idea, including a lot in Labour heartlands, so he has to bide his time and keep the noise down a bit.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

25 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I guess I am one of the “floaters” KG, pretty centrist, probably left of centre. I’m ok with him atm but can see why others may not be.

Yes, I'm fine with anyone who listens to the parties and their manifesto and chooses. I sometimes berate myself for being so dyed in the wool about how I believe society should behave which includes who it chooses to govern itself.

I wasn't anti Corbyn, I was anti Momentum. I cannot abide the deliberate attempt to alienate and cause trouble. I admired Michael Foot and I admire Diane Abbott. But Lansman had a hidden agenda, just like Derek Hatton.

[Mr Angry 1,562]

59 minutes ago, Herman said:

There's not really a lot Starmer can do until the realities of brexit start hitting home. As can be judged on this forum there are still many that think it was a good idea, including a lot in Labour heartlands, so he has to bide his time and keep the noise down a bit.

Although some of those Labour heartlands are areas that feel massively let down by the lack of support from the government when they were put into Tier 3. That’s something they may take some considerable time to forgive.

[Well b back 3,208]

26 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Yes, I'm fine with anyone who listens to the parties and their manifesto and chooses. I sometimes berate myself for being so dyed in the wool about how I believe society should behave which includes who it chooses to govern itself.

I wasn't anti Corbyn, I was anti Momentum. I cannot abide the deliberate attempt to alienate and cause trouble. I admired Michael Foot and I admire Diane Abbott. But Lansman had a hidden agenda, just like Derek Hatton.

That’s really interesting, I have voted Tory all my life including a vote for Johnson. I am however anti Johnson and his mates as they have completely lost my trust with their constant information, that you can’t prove are lies, but is deliberately misleading.

If there was an election today I would happily vote for Starmer, however I expect Boris and his mates to be long gone by the time of the next election. Are the May elections England as well ? If so they could see the biggest protest vote ever as it will in my opinion become an anti Johnson vote.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

That’s really interesting, I have voted Tory all my life including a vote for Johnson. I am however anti Johnson and his mates as they have completely lost my trust with their constant information, that you can’t prove are lies, but is deliberately misleading.

If there was an election today I would happily vote for Starmer, however I expect Boris and his mates to be long gone by the time of the next election. Are the May elections England as well ? If so they could see the biggest protest vote ever as it will in my opinion become an anti Johnson vote.

I think there is bound to be some sort of protest vote. Local elections shouldn't be as political but will be this time.

However, I think Johnson, for some inexplicable reason, is quite liked by those who tend to vote locally. Lets face it, the turnout will be minimal anyway.

Here in Cornwall, a Unitary Authority, we are reducing our Councillors by 25% which is likely to see greater success for Independents.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,188]

5 hours ago, paul moy said:

Not project fear as I predicted this scenario myself as a natural reaction by the French etc to our bid for freedom.  Part of  SHORT TERM  PAIN ......   😎

 

 

Many of us predicted that there would be delays. As we are a 3rd country, I would think the EU are obliged to check lorries....we should be doing the same 

I'm still looking forward to your answer on how long "short term pain" will last

[Van wink 2,994]

57 minutes ago, Well b back said:

That’s really interesting, I have voted Tory all my life including a vote for Johnson. I am however anti Johnson and his mates as they have completely lost my trust with their constant information, that you can’t prove are lies, but is deliberately misleading.

If there was an election today I would happily vote for Starmer, however I expect Boris and his mates to be long gone by the time of the next election. Are the May elections England as well ? If so they could see the biggest protest vote ever as it will in my opinion become an anti Johnson vote.

If the May elections actually take place of course

[BigFish 1,988]

Chances are that the May locals will postponed because of Covid, they were already doubling up due to the postponement of the 2020 electiosn.

I feel for you @keelansgrandad , as I suppect SKS would as well if he could break from the politics. It would be good to have something to vote for, rather than just against. But the Biden/Democrat success in the US points to a way forward. I am sure Sanders and AOC wouldn't have picked him, but are glad he ran. The trouble is that SKS faces a mountain of lies and the evidence is that there is a proportion of the electorate that choose to believe these even after they a proved demonstrably untrue. Labour needs to pick away those that can be persuaded, like @Well b back and @Van wink, those who voted Tory in 2019. The road to removing the Tories runs through constituencies that have never previously had a Labour MP, but where the demographics mean the Party is pushing at an open door. Corbyn tried to play to the Left, but there wasn't enough votes in our FPTP system.

[BigFish 1,988]

9 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Many of us predicted that there would be delays. As we are a 3rd country, I would think the EU are obliged to check lorries....we should be doing the same 

I'm still looking forward to your answer on how long "short term pain" will last

@paul moy, this isn't short term pain. This is forever unless this terrible failed Brexit is changed or reversed.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,188]

17 minutes ago, Van wink said:

If the May elections actually take place of course

Why not?

Use postal votes and/or those nice Dominion voting machines 😃

[Van wink 2,994]

11 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Why not?

Use postal votes and/or those nice Dominion voting machines 😃

Or how about a virtual show of hands😁

[paul moy 235]

58 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Many of us predicted that there would be delays. As we are a 3rd country, I would think the EU are obliged to check lorries....we should be doing the same 

I'm still looking forward to your answer on how long "short term pain" will last

How long depends on how we react and the effect on the EU.    Notice how they told France to tone it down when they closed down the haulage at Dover and demanded all drivers take a covid test.  All their intransigence causes is more hurt to themselves as we turn against buying their goods.

The more they try to hurt us the more they shoot themselves in the foot. How long they continue to be bitter is in their own hands but we really should return like for like just to let them know that we are not pushovers. Boris did it by threatening No Deal and he now needs to continue 'threats' to the EU in other ways. A good start would be to ban the massive trawlers from our waters or at least inspect them every time that they enter our waters and fine them heavily for any breaches of our laws.

We are now in control and need to show it. 

 

 

 

[ricardo 7,395]

28 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Or how about a virtual show of hands😁

Just let Billy rule, he's obviously got all the answers.

Once he's got things running O.K. we can go back to democracy

Utopia awaits.

simple👍

[paul moy 235]

59 minutes ago, BigFish said:

@paul moy, this isn't short term pain. This is forever unless this terrible failed Brexit is changed or reversed.

Haha........ 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, paul moy said:

How long depends on how we react and the effect on the EU.    Notice how they told France to tone it down when they closed down the haulage at Dover and demanded all drivers take a covid test.  All their intransigence causes is more hurt to themselves as we turn against buying their goods.

The more they try to hurt us the more they shoot themselves in the foot. How long they continue to be bitter is in their own hands but we really should return like for like just to let them know that we are not pushovers. Boris did it by threatening No Deal and he now needs to continue 'threats' to the EU in other ways. A good start would be to ban the massive trawlers from our waters or at least inspect them every time that they enter our waters and fine them heavily for any breaches of our laws.

We are now in control and need to show it. 

 

 

 

If anyone is bitter its you. We are out and you still keep moaning on about the EU.

We are in as much control as the rest of the world allows.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 08/01/2021 at 21:58, Herman said:

A damning letter. Well worth a read.

 

Since the New Year, I've read articles about unhappy English fishermen, unhappy Scottish fishermen, unhappy Frog fishermen, unhappy Dutch fishermen, unhappy Norwegian fishermen and unhappy Irish fishermen. I suppose that means the Spanish fishermen are still on holiday.

[Yellow Fever 3,792]

I think Starmer who wants to win the next election has done everything correct so far. Gentle centre left.

Simply no hostages to fortune,  appear competent and be a trusted government in waiting.

Lastly, as per Napoleon, never interfere with an enemy who's in the process of destroying themselves.

The Brexit fallout now just starting plus Covid incompetence that Gove is already trying to deflect will do all and more of the heavy electoral lifting.