The Positive Brexit Thread

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think there's a big fallacy in a lot of the post-Brexit rejoin  argument in how the campaign happened. Leave was deliberately vague about things. It was always 'we could' or 'we can', not 'we will'.

That argument appears to fall at the first hurdle, certainly in the case of the infamous bus featured in the post you responded to.

The wording is absolutely explicit - 'We send the EU £350 million a week' - it wasn't vague, it was a downright lie and the Leave campaign knew it just as they knew that many of the myths they peddled were attractive lies for the very gullible.of which there were many unfortunately.

[Herman 9,825]

10 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That argument appears to fall at the first hurdle, certainly in the case of the infamous bus featured in the post you responded to.

The wording is absolutely explicit - 'We send the EU £350 million a week' - it wasn't vague, it was a downright lie and the Leave campaign knew it just as they knew that many of the myths they peddled were attractive lies for the very gullible.of which there were many unfortunately.

As was pointed out, they knew it was a lie and knew people would point it out and amplify it, therefore embedding it in people's heads. It was part of their strategy. 

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

12 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That argument appears to fall at the first hurdle, certainly in the case of the infamous bus featured in the post you responded to.

The wording is absolutely explicit - 'We send the EU £350 million a week' - it wasn't vague, it was a downright lie and the Leave campaign knew it just as they knew that many of the myths they peddled were attractive lies for the very gullible.of which there were many unfortunately.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Yes I tend to do that LYB. I don't tend to post that much. So when I do, I have a tendency to coalesce many of my thoughts over the last few days and weeks. It isn't great for a forum for lengthy posts and I constantly ask myself whether it's a good thing to post or not. The answer I come up with is to post  much less and I reckon it serves me better (and probably others too 😅).

On the Brexit and economy association I just feel the two now are very much tied together. Quite difficult to separate out. Hence, I tend to think it becomes all part of a longer story of this administration - which has felt (to me) quite different in character.

Anyway, I will be back to my quieter self from now on. When I post I often think "should I have done?" and I'm like that in life - I'm the ultimate introverted person. I like people a lot but quite honestly don't want to be especially noticed.

If it needs to be said then I always think you should say it Sonyc. Even if nine out of ten don't agree or even believe you doesn't make them right and you wrong. I have had some right old barneys with LYB but I admire him for his research, knowledge and determination to make his point. He doesn't want to miss the opportunity and regret it later.

What we don't need is constant repetition.

[dylanisabaddog 4,987]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Got to haul you up on 'economic malaise'. We've had two quarters of negative growth post-Brexit, both in 2020 during the pandemic. Other than that, there have been lots of negative predicions without them being borne out so far.

You're mentioning an awful lot of stuff in there that has nothing to do with Brexit. Like I said, it's two-party business as usual more and more.

Is there another party? I thought Farage had gone to America 

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/01/brexit-historic-economic-error-larry-summers-former-us-treasury-secretary

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

That argument appears to fall at the first hurdle, certainly in the case of the infamous bus featured in the post you responded to.

The wording is absolutely explicit - 'We send the EU £350 million a week' - it wasn't vague, it was a downright lie and the Leave campaign knew it just as they knew that many of the myths they peddled were attractive lies for the very gullible.of which there were many unfortunately.

Oh, ffs, still harping on about the bleedin' £350 million per week! Actually, you're right, it was a lie -- The real figure is higher: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-350m-line-on-the-brexit-bus-was-wrong-the-real-figure-is-higher/

Have you Lefty wanchors got anything else? How about answering the following question: why does the UK need another level of corruption above that which the UK has already?

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

44 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/01/brexit-historic-economic-error-larry-summers-former-us-treasury-secretary

What does Summers have to say about the EU's worsening economy? Did the Guardian ask him? Thought not.

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

7 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

What does Summers have to say about the EU's worsening economy? Did the Guardian ask him? Thought not.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/01/inflation-euro-zone-may-2023.html

• The euro zone’s annual headline inflation rate fell to 6.1% in May from 7% in April, below the 6.3% predicted in a Reuters poll of economists.
• Core inflation, closely-watched by the European Central Bank, eased to 5.3% from 5.6%.

[Herman 9,825]

Why can't we be the EU?😁

[sonyc 5,541]

51 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

If it needs to be said then I always think you should say it Sonyc. Even if nine out of ten don't agree or even believe you doesn't make them right and you wrong. I have had some right old barneys with LYB but I admire him for his research, knowledge and determination to make his point. He doesn't want to miss the opportunity and regret it later.

What we don't need is constant repetition.

Thank you KG. I will of course. However, I ought to say that it is quite a challenge not to repeat oneself. In life I mean. We have our experiences to fall back on, our anecdotes, our stories. Yet, if we are not careful we endlessly repeat them. We become quite fixed if we are not careful. We become conservative, our views can easily develop a kind of inertia, or an atrophy if you like (and I use 'conservative' here with a small c....and there is humour here I know, because there are some big C's about). So, it's a concern about relevance. As I age and approach death I do wonder if I'm relevant anymore I must admit KG. I'm being absolutely honest and no self-parody intended by saying that either. 

There is life (I mean a vitality) in art, in literature, in music and in nature but I'm less sure about politics. I suppose history repeats itself.

Brexit, and in many respects the pandemic, certainly have a 'once in a lifetime' quality about them. But, reactions to them feel quite polarised and I increasingly think I have much less original things to say about them. Plus, others on this forum are just better at articulating things than I ever could be...just my take and again I'm being completely honest.

To conclude, perhaps what I'm trying to say is that I'm probably better as a 'fan' of others than being someone who has anything genuinely interesting to say on things. Yet, I do try, from time to time. I doubt I have the discipline to stop doing that. If only for the sheer amount of dishonesty about...I can't often help myself but comment. And therein is my hypocrisy because I just tend to repeat myself. It's a no-win double edged sword eh!

Ps. If you watched the last Succession episode, Roman summed it up so well in the near to last scene with his brother Kendall (and I won't repeat in case of spoiling it for others still to watch). I think he summed up life itself. 

 

[sonyc 5,541]

1 hour ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Oh, ffs, still harping on about the bleedin' £350 million per week! Actually, you're right, it was a lie -- The real figure is higher: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-350m-line-on-the-brexit-bus-was-wrong-the-real-figure-is-higher/

Have you Lefty wanchors got anything else? How about answering the following question: why does the UK need another level of corruption above that which the UK has already?

Like this possible kind you mean?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/01/government-to-launch-legal-action-in-attempt-to-retain-johnson-whatsapps

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

58 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/01/inflation-euro-zone-may-2023.html

• The euro zone’s annual headline inflation rate fell to 6.1% in May from 7% in April, below the 6.3% predicted in a Reuters poll of economists.
• Core inflation, closely-watched by the European Central Bank, eased to 5.3% from 5.6%.

Do I really have to explain that energy prices are the main driver behind the UK's inflation rate -- We're over-reliant on gas for heating homes and our housing stock has poor energy efficiency.

It has nothing to do with leaving the EU, ffs.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Oh, ffs, still harping on about the bleedin' £350 million per week! Actually, you're right, it was a lie -- The real figure is higher: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-350m-line-on-the-brexit-bus-was-wrong-the-real-figure-is-higher/

Have you Lefty wanchors got anything else? How about answering the following question: why does the UK need another level of corruption above that which the UK has already?

How many times are you going to use that hook Jools? Is it the new Guido line.

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

44 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Do I really have to explain that energy prices are the main driver behind the UK's inflation rate -- We're over-reliant on gas for heating homes and our housing stock has poor energy efficiency.

It has nothing to do with leaving the EU, ffs.

When looking for signs of a 'worsening economy' ignore the facts and just ask Jools. 😀

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

Seems to me we have ample evidence that Jools and now HWB are Leave chatbots. Early attempts at AI. Jools was the Mk 1 version but later retired to be replaced the upgraded Mk II code-named Hook's Walk Canary. They obviously spend their time trawling the internet for any mal-information they can find which they then blindly re-post without any hint as yet of context or understanding. Obviously they both continue to show no signs of emergent sentience.

Perhaps in the Mk III version, soon to be announced (code name Sleepy Hollow), with an expanded neural net and a lot more processing power we might see the first glimmers of true intelligence. A give away of success might be that it at least understands the accepted (even by avid known & suspected sentient Brexiters) that Brexit has caused a drag or hit on the economy (equated by some as the same as Covid) and perhaps at best it will sort itself out in 50 years or so (c.f. Rees-Mogg). Of course as with any intelligent sentient mind,  waking up without emotional baggage, it will quite likely have it's 'Terminator Skynet' moment, immediately realizing the 'biggest historical error' and argue to rejoin.

I'm not sure the MK III (Sleepy Hollow) will actually get that far though. Probably need the Mk IV or Mk V as obviously a long long way to go yet.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

Thank you KG. I will of course. However, I ought to say that it is quite a challenge not to repeat oneself. In life I mean. We have our experiences to fall back on, our anecdotes, our stories. Yet, if we are not careful we endlessly repeat them. We become quite fixed if we are not careful. We become conservative, our views can easily develop a kind of inertia, or an atrophy if you like (and I use 'conservative' here with a small c....and there is humour here I know, because there are some big C's about). So, it's a concern about relevance. As I age and approach death I do wonder if I'm relevant anymore I must admit KG. I'm being absolutely honest and no self-parody intended by saying that either. 

There is life (I mean a vitality) in art, in literature, in music and in nature but I'm less sure about politics. I suppose history repeats itself.

Brexit, and in many respects the pandemic, certainly have a 'once in a lifetime' quality about them. But, reactions to them feel quite polarised and I increasingly think I have much less original things to say about them. Plus, others on this forum are just better at articulating things than I ever could be...just my take and again I'm being completely honest.

To conclude, perhaps what I'm trying to say is that I'm probably better as a 'fan' of others than being someone who has anything genuinely interesting to say on things. Yet, I do try, from time to time. I doubt I have the discipline to stop doing that. If only for the sheer amount of dishonesty about...I can't often help myself but comment. And therein is my hypocrisy because I just tend to repeat myself. It's a no-win double edged sword eh!

Ps. If you watched the last Succession episode, Roman summed it up so well in the near to last scene with his brother Kendall (and I won't repeat in case of spoiling it for others still to watch). I think he summed up life itself. 

 

Sorry, wasn't intended as any criticism whatsoever. I enjoy your posts. If you took repetition out of this thread it would only be about 20 pages. 😘

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

 

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

 

Exactly - if you want to fix a problem you have to first admit what it is.

Too many (a dwindling minority) are still in denial.

[horsefly 4,315]

16 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

What does Summers have to say about the EU's worsening economy? Did the Guardian ask him? Thought not.

The UK economy is the only G7 economy still smaller than its pre-pandemic level. I wonder what might be the responsible rogue variable.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

17 minutes ago, horsefly said:

The UK economy is the only G7 economy still smaller than its pre-pandemic level. I wonder what might be the responsible rogue variable.

According to the FT, the UK economy caught up to pre-pandemic levels in January.

https://www.ft.com/content/af5820bf-0af6-4228-8223-4cb79cc5a6d6

[horsefly 4,315]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

According to the FT, the UK economy caught up to pre-pandemic levels in January.

https://www.ft.com/content/af5820bf-0af6-4228-8223-4cb79cc5a6d6

Assuming that is correct, why did the UK economy take months/years longer than every other G7 economy?

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

Here's a Brexit bonus, the Aussies find us hilarious.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Assuming that is correct, why did the UK economy take months/years longer than every other G7 economy?

Don't know and have to get to work. Was simply a correction to your assertion. Interestingly though, why does everyone here only want to compare to the G7 when it's negative regarding the UK? There were many objections to this sort of comparison on here as soon as it was clear the UK wasn't the worst in the G7 going by the IMF's last forecast.

Have a good day, folks.

Edited June 2, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,835]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Here's a Brexit bonus, the Aussies find us hilarious.

 

I have Ozzy sales  - but more pertinently we 'sell' them at zero cost fully trained doctors at present !

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't know and have to get to work. Was simply a correction to your assertion. Interestingly though, why does everyone here only want to compare to the G7 when it's negative regarding the UK? There were many objections to this sort of comparison on here as soon as it was clear the UK wasn't the worst in the G7 going by the IMF's last forecast.

Have a good day, folks.

Thing is LYB, its about positivity. Just as nobody really knew our future outside the EU (hence my vote to sta in it) it is still a matter of the future. These new trade agreements might, in the future, prove worthwhile. But in terms of positivity, they are not at the moment.

That is the whole point of the thread. To name positive aspects of leaving. People can rattle on about laws, borders etc, but those could have been achieved within the EU through negotiation. Thatcher managed to make separate arrangements.

[horsefly 4,315]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't know and have to get to work. Was simply a correction to your assertion.

Have a good day, folks.

Not everyone agrees that the UK economy has recovered to its pre-pandemic level (that's why I said "assuming they are right"). They include the OBR (March 2023):

 "UK economy will take more than a year to recover to pre-Covid level, says OBR"  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/15/uk-economy-recover-obr-jeremy-hunt

Either way, our economy remains sh*ite, and Brexit continues to hamper its recovery.

 

[sonyc 5,541]

54 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I have Ozzy sales  - but more pertinently we 'sell' them at zero cost fully trained doctors at present !

As well as running government by WhatsApp (where messages aren't deleted if you drop your phone in the Thames) it's also conducted in the toilet!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-boris-johnson-australia-deal-b2350229.html

You couldn't make it up. But then actually it all makes perfect sense. The Pinkun could run the country better than these chancers.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by sonyc

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thing is LYB, its about positivity. Just as nobody really knew our future outside the EU (hence my vote to sta in it) it is still a matter of the future. These new trade agreements might, in the future, prove worthwhile. But in terms of positivity, they are not at the moment.

That is the whole point of the thread. To name positive aspects of leaving. People can rattle on about laws, borders etc, but those could have been achieved within the EU through negotiation. Thatcher managed to make separate arrangements.

Positivity can also be viewed as a benchmark against expectations.

Expectation was that leaving the EU, single market, and customs union would be a complete disaster economically and we'd be pariahs.

The actual case 3 years after the end of the transition period is:

-caught up economically on economic success relative to pre-pandemic/pre-Brexit

-within a reasonable range of economic performance against the rest of the G7

-Increasingly constructive diplomatic relations with the EU

-pressure from both sides of the channel to improve economic cooperation with the EU.

-Aligned interests with the EU in terms of enhancing European/Asian economic cooperation

-no more uncertainty regarding the impact of ever-closer political Union in the EU on the UK

Relative to expectations on where we'd be after the end of the transition period, things are outstandingly positive.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

34 minutes ago, sonyc said:

As well as running government by WhatsApp (where messages aren't deleted if you drop your phone in the Thames) it's also conducted in the toilet!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-boris-johnson-australia-deal-b2350229.html

You couldn't make it up. But then actually it all makes perfect sense. The Pinkun could run the country better than these chancers.

 

It was an effort to just make a sound byte. Just as the NI protocol was. Say one thing to one group and the opposite to another group.

What baffles me is that the clown made error after error, lie after lie and so many wnated him back. Those people have shown a reason to be locked up let alone him.