The Positive Brexit Thread

[Herman 9,825]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Funny how I mentioned nothing about him being jewish.

I know. (Also the lion in your avatar is doing a "Sieg Heil". It's the little details that are a giveaway.)

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

19 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Because he made lots of his money by massively shorting the pound and betting against it, which, along with the resulting market forces presumed to be caused by his actions forced us to pull our currency off of the European exchange, drove up real interest rates, resulting in decreased spending and borrowing which caused a lot of people to go out of business and cost the goverment a significant amount of money and arguably resulted in a recession.

You had to have pasted that from somewhere.

Edited June 10, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

17 hours ago, Herman said:

It's amazing how one old Jewish bloke could do so much damage. God help us if anyone else got involved.

BTW, if only you would show this much dislike for the people that are trashing your country's economy, right now, we may not be in such a mess.

Why are you bringing his religion into it when nobody else is? Soros twigged that if he shorted the pound, the BoE would be forced to prop it up, so he could keep making money again and again. Others twigged what he was doing and realised it was a bullet proof money maker, so joined in until we were forced to give up and drop out of the ERM. That's just fact. You can hear about it in his own words in the documentary below. It made us ineligible for the Euro and the economic fallout triggered the Eurosceptic rebellions against John Major in the Conservative party that sowed the seeds for us leaving the EU over 20 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/13/black-wednesday-brexit-sterling-crisis

Edited June 10, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,825]

Irrelevant and desperate distraction. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

Irrelevant and desperate distraction. 

He's no distraction from people to blame for the UK leaving the EU. Soros  belongs on the list with Odey, Farage, and Johnson. The only difference was is it was a side-effect of his actions rather than the purpose of them. Regardless, Brexit probably wouldn't have happened without Black Wednesday, and Soros was the biggest profiteer from Black Wednesday.

I genuinely don't understand why so many Brexiteers hate Soros; they owe him big time.

[dylanisabaddog 4,987]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Why are you bringing his religion into it when nobody else is? Soros twigged that if he shorted the pound, the BoE would be forced to prop it up, so he could keep making money again and again. Others twigged what he was doing and realised it was a bullet proof money maker, so joined in until we were forced to give up and drop out of the ERM. That's just fact. You can hear about it in his own words in the documentary below. It made us ineligible for the Euro and the economic fallout triggered the Eurosceptic rebellions against John Major in the Conservative party that sowed the seeds for us leaving the EU over 20 years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/13/black-wednesday-brexit-sterling-crisis

It may have played a small part in Brexit but the major driver in my mind was the forthcoming anti corruption legislation. That would have cost people like Banks, Farage and Rees-Mogg a fortune. 

The other problem with the Black Wednesday theory is that the people who voted for Brexit think it was the day that Macdonalds ran out of chips. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

38 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

It may have played a small part in Brexit but the major driver in my mind was the forthcoming anti corruption legislation. That would have cost people like Banks, Farage and Rees-Mogg a fortune. 

The other problem with the Black Wednesday theory is that the people who voted for Brexit think it was the day that Macdonalds ran out of chips. 

That will have been a motive for some campaigners, but not of much interest to the average Brexit voter.

The point is that dropping out of the ERM was the difference between  us keeping the pound or joining the Euro. In turn, adopting the Euro was the difference between leaving the EU being possible and impossible.

Either way, for Odey and for Soros, the primary goal in both cases was making money; politics is secondary. There's no rational reason in my eyes to hate one more than the other if you're looking for people to blame for Brexit.

Hating Odey for being an alleged sex offender makes a bit more sense, but equally it doesn't have anything to do with leaving the EU.

Edited June 10, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,825]

On 09/06/2023 at 15:05, Herman said:

Odey helped bankroll something knowing full well that it would cripple his country's economy and therefore profiting by a huge amount. That's the difference. 

The levels of gaslighting from this man are incredible.

[Herman 9,825]

Tory donor says bets against UK government bonds ‘gifts that keep giving’

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/27/tory-donor-says-bets-against-uk-government-bonds-gifts-that-keep-giving

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Tory donor says bets against UK government bonds ‘gifts that keep giving’

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/27/tory-donor-says-bets-against-uk-government-bonds-gifts-that-keep-giving

He is now the first up against the wall. No shame, no morals, no empathy. He is basically a thief.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Now Odey has finally quit. Change his name to Odious.

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

13 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

He is now the first up against the wall. No shame, no morals, no empathy. He is basically a thief.

Not saying you're wrong but if we are going to start punishing people in public life with ' no shame, no morals, no empathy' then the very first trawl is going to pick up a significant majority of Tory ministers and ex-ministers from the last ten years.

Wouldn't be fantastic if there was some real accountabillity in our system of governance, if only we had a proper constitution enforceable by an independent legal system....................

Edited June 11, 2023 by Creative Midfielder

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

14 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Not saying you're wrong but if we are going to start punishing people in public life with ' no shame, no morals, no empathy' then the very first trawl is going to pick up a significant majority of Tory ministers and ex-ministers from the last ten years.

Wouldn't be fantastic if there was some real accountabillity in our system of governance, if only we had a proper constitution enforceable by an independent legal system....................

There is accountability; that's what voting is for.

Whether the voting system makes them adequately accountable could be up for debate, but nobody's interested. 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

32 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There is accountability; that's what voting is for.

Whether the voting system makes them adequately accountable could be up for debate, but nobody's interested. 🤷‍♂️

There is no real accountability at all - voting allows us, occasionally, to express a preference in a very imperfect manner as to who should represent us - one of the few things, I think, we agree on. But that accountability extends no further than poor performance over probably 5 years results in some MPs losing their seats - big deal and indeed long overdue in the case of some of the worst MPs.

But there is no accountability whatsoever for really appalling behaviour or total incompetence of the sort we have witnessed on quite a few occasions over the last few years from Tory ministers and Prime Ministers.

Prime example - Liz Truss is very likely to be re-elected next year despite crashing the UK economy and putting mortgage bills up very significantly for millions of people for absolutely no reason other than her own stupidity and utter incompetence.

[Barbe bleu 832]

7 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

There is no real accountability at all - voting allows us, occasionally, to express a preference in a very imperfect manner as to who should represent us - one of the few things, I think, we agree on. But that accountability extends no further than poor performance over probably 5 years results in some MPs losing their seats - big deal and indeed long overdue in the case of some of the worst MPs.

But there is no accountability whatsoever for really appalling behaviour or total incompetence of the sort we have witnessed on quite a few occasions over the last few years from Tory ministers and Prime Ministers.

Prime example - Liz Truss is very likely to be re-elected next year despite crashing the UK economy and putting mortgage bills up very significantly for millions of people for absolutely no reason other than her own stupidity and utter incompetence.

Yes, we should have some sort of central figure that stand above all the party politics and can take a long term view of things. 

They could be empowered to decide who can and who cannot stand for election and have the power to remove officials for 'incompetence'.

(Sarcasm emoji)

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

The perfect system of government is a dictatorship led by a philosopher king dedicated to the welfare of the people. Unfortunately, the odds of getting a dictator that clever and benevolent are slim.

Laws binding the actions of the sovereign body for lawful decisions, whether for good intentions of bad, go against the principle of parliamentary sovereignty in that it's a mechanism for one parliament to bind its successors. In turn, parliamentary sovereignty is essential for democratic representation to have any meaning. Who's to say the parliament that introduces the binds is more fit to bind all future governments than successive governments?

Edited June 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

19 hours ago, Herman said:

The levels of gaslighting from this man are incredible.

You clearly have no idea what gaslighting is. Gaslighting is presenting false information in such a way as to make people question their own sanity. Everything I've raised about black Wednesday is true. Even the guardian has carried articles laying out how black Wednesday damaged our position and relationship with the EU.

You hate odey for making money at the expense of the British people because he states support for something you don't like and damaged the UK's relationship with the EU, but you're okay with Soros having made a billion at the expense of British taxpayer and having damaged the UK's relationship with the EU because you like his stance on the EU? That seems a fair representation of your position as far as I can see. Feel free to explain what I've missed if not.

Edited June 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[TheGunnShow 6,005]

Why is Soros getting the blame when Lamont was the one who messed up?

[Herman 9,825]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Why is Soros getting the blame when Lamont was the one who messed up?

Rant. Apologies.😳😉

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Herman

[Herman 9,825]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-internet-trolling

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Why is Soros getting the blame when Lamont was the one who messed up?

Yup, Lamont put us in at a rate that wasn't sustainable when the UK went into recession. Should he have foreseen the impact if the UK was to go into recession? Probably. If the exploitation is to be prevented, then it's up to government to make rules. That argument completely absolves Soros of responsibility for taking advantage, but then in that case there's no reason to blame Odey for taking advantage of the situation either; that's all on Kwarteng.

But equally, that definitely opens the door to calling Gordon Brown incompetent for his failure to foresee the consequences of cheerleading bank mergers that left us so vulnerable in 2008, not to mention his supreme arrogance in ever pretending he could bring an end to 'boom and bust'.

Edited June 11, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

"And now, we move on to the liars"

 

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

I like Heseltine. One of the best PMs we never had.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/11/boris-johnsons-legacy-he-has-ruined-britains-place-in-the-world

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

22 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You hate odey for making money at the expense of the British people because he states support for something you don't like and damaged the UK's relationship with the EU, but you're okay with Soros having made a billion at the expense of British taxpayer and having damaged the UK's relationship with the EU because you like his stance on the EU? That seems a fair representation of your position as far as I can see. Feel free to explain what I've missed if not.

Thats a bit strange because I thought Herman made it pretty clear that he 'hated' Odey because he is British and quite deliberately damaged his own country in pursuit of making huge amounts of cash for himself.

Soros, on the other hand, is not British and whilst you can argue that what he did wasn't so much different to Odey, he didn't stab his own country in the back and a fair bit of the money he made has gone to philantropic causes unlike the odious Odey which was just about personal enrichment.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Soros could be considered a philanthropist. Odey cannot.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Thats a bit strange because I thought Herman made it pretty clear that he 'hated' Odey because he is British and quite deliberately damaged his own country in pursuit of making huge amounts of cash for himself.

Soros, on the other hand, is not British and whilst you can argue that what he did wasn't so much different to Odey, he didn't stab his own country in the back and a fair bit of the money he made has gone to philantropic causes unlike the odious Odey which was just about personal enrichment.

 

3 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Thats a bit strange because I thought Herman made it pretty clear that he 'hated' Odey because he is British and quite deliberately damaged his own country in pursuit of making huge amounts of cash for himself.

Soros, on the other hand, is not British and whilst you can argue that what he did wasn't so much different to Odey, he didn't stab his own country in the back and a fair bit of the money he made has gone to philantropic causes unlike the odious Odey which was just about personal enrichment

I suppose there's something in some of that. People can dislike whoever they want, but ultimately he's a private individual who can do what he likes and had the right to campaign for and support whatever he wanted. If people take pleasure from him coming a cropper over the allegations then fair enough, but it doesn't change anything at the end of the day.

[Herman 9,825]

Interesting read.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/06/12/world/britain-post-brexit-policy/

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Interesting read.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/06/12/world/britain-post-brexit-policy/

It was very interesting. Some of the business leaders are clearly being rather opportunistic mind. Microsoft's complaints in there about the block on buying Activision Blizzard is pure sour grapes challenging a healthy bit of regulation in favour of competition.

Overall, it reads like a general complaint that the UK isn't acting to shred all legislation, bung subsidies at business as the US is doing, scrap taxes, and have a general neoliberal orgy having left the EU. It even has a pop at consumer protection, which is no different from the rest of Europe.

In spite of this, the UK's still the 2nd top target for FDI as of last month, just behind France.

https://www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2023/05/foreign-direct-investment-uk-remains-second-in-europe-despite-a-fall-in-project-numbers

Edited June 12, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Herman 9,825]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/13/uk-exports-record-worse-than-any-g7-country-except-japan-in-last-decade

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

10 hours ago, Herman said:

Interesting read.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/06/12/world/britain-post-brexit-policy/

Small fish, large pond, predators around. Eating our lunch or worse.

Oh - and of course out of the SM we still have the British specialty of even more red tape, job's worth and protectionism. 

Not a mention of CPTPP.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Yellow Fever
Before somebody shouts lefty paper - yes it is given away with the New York Times in Japan.