The Positive Brexit Thread

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

I think Campbell is a **** but he is telling you the truth.

So if you believe what Campbell says about the UK not having to implement EU Directives in our law, why did you vote Remain? 

[Herman 9,863]

You still don't get it do you? We were fully paid up members of the EU, for decades, helping make the rules and regulations that we then implemented, through our elected governments. Stop acting like we were forced to do any of this stuff rather than a willing participant. 

[dylanisabaddog 5,062]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

You still don't get it do you? We were fully paid up members of the EU, for decades, helping make the rules and regulations that we then implemented, through our elected governments. Stop acting like we were forced to do any of this stuff rather than a willing participant. 

When Margaret Thatcher first became PM she told the EU that it gave non members a good deal and wanted it changed. They agreed but said it would take 5 years due to lack of time. Thatcher suggested that her Civil Service draw up new rules on 3rd countries, they all agreed and voted through the changes within a year. 

Roll the clock forward 30 years and the Conservative Party moaned like mad about the way the EU was behaving in exit talks. The EU was merely following the rules Thatcher created. Idiots. 

[Herman 9,863]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

When Margaret Thatcher first became PM she told the EU that it gave non members a good deal and wanted it changed. They agreed but said it would take 5 years due to lack of time. Thatcher suggested that her Civil Service draw up new rules on 3rd countries, they all agreed and voted through the changes within a year. 

Roll the clock forward 30 years and the Conservative Party moaned like mad about the way the EU was behaving in exit talks. The EU was merely following the rules Thatcher created. Idiots. 

All these historical facts are freely available to the brexiters yet they willfully ignore them just to keep their feelings of victimhood alive. These people deserve to be held to account even if it is from someone like Campbell. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I would never expect to convince Jools that Brexit was wrong. I doubt I would be able to persuade him to admit that there were so many identified and proving lies by the Leave campaign.

I was just like to convince him that this topic is about producing evidence of positive outcomes of Brexit. He never provides a thing.

[A Load of Squit 5,246]

Poor Grant Shapps, his multiple personality disorder has returned, he'll need his old friend Michael Green to help him out of this one.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Poor Grant Shapps, his multiple personality disorder has returned, he'll need his old friend Michael Green to help him out of this one.

 

His seat was Labour during the Blair years so maybe he is trying to up his profile before he loses his voters.

[sonyc 5,541]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-elton-john-furnish-festivals-b2338658.html

 

"Third country" status for musicians. And a visa free options turned down by the Tories in 2021.

 

Just a reminder again when people come to vote in 2024 what this current lot have delivered. (The now dead river in Lyme Regis, polluted to death by sewage is another story today). Culturally, environmentally and economically, this government isn't good for you. Brexit is the totem. That is your 'sovereignty' - Laws being made in the UK for the UK. Regulation free. 

 

[benchwarmer 625]

And now the latest Brexit dividend: Braverman thinks we should be trained to pick fruit. 

In the not so distant past, seasonal work was done by travellers who followed the harvest around the country, hard-up mums with toddlers in tow and 13-year-olds earning pocket money in the school holidays (including yours truly btw).   Paid in cash by weight, no tax no NI.   

Is it her ambition to turn the UK into a third world country, with a tiny, corrupt, super-rich elite and most of the rest in grinding poverty?  Because that's where we're heading. 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by benchwarmer

[Herman 9,863]

Old Farage hails brexit as a roaring success. Oh....... 

[Pyro Pete 1,941]

24 minutes ago, Herman said:

Old Farage hails brexit as a roaring success. Oh....... 

Oh, indeed.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Pyro Pete said:

Oh, indeed.

 

Is that why Farage left the Tories to join . . . how many parties?

The man who said lockdown was more important than the economy and then started a camapign against lockdown because it was harming the economy.

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

Old Farage hails brexit as a roaring success. Oh....... 

The first time he's ever said anything true about Brexit...

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

On 13/05/2023 at 11:10, Herman said:

All these historical facts are freely available to the brexiters yet they willfully ignore them just to keep their feelings of victimhood alive. These people deserve to be held to account even if it is from someone like Campbell. 

Except it's not as simple as just 'third countries'. Plenty of 'third countries' have different agreements with the EU. US states individually have different agreements with the EU on different topics. For example, someone with a Connecticutt driving license can legally exchange their driving license for an EU driving license, but someone from New York can't. On the other hand, a New York driver can register at an address in Connecticutt, exchange it for a Connecticutt license, and then exchange that for an EU license.

[Herman 9,863]

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

12 minutes ago, Herman said:

Did I mention we're no longer members of the EU?

[Well b back 3,310]

Remember when Jools ( now Hooky ) and Swindon used to tell us how the car market would be moved to the U.K. ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295

[Herman 9,863]

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

 

[PurpleCanary 5,606]

9 hours ago, Well b back said:

Remember when Jools ( now Hooky ) and Swindon used to tell us how the car market would be moved to the U.K. ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295

What is useful about this kind of news is that it enables Starmer to ramp up his promise to renegotiate the Brexit trade deal without  being then credibly accused of wanting to rejoin the EU.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

13 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

What is useful about this kind of news is that it enables Starmer to ramp up his promise to renegotiate the Brexit trade deal without  being then credibly accused of wanting to rejoin the EU.

How do you promise to negotiate anything when it's dependent on the other party being amenable to your aims? What carrots does he intend to offer the EU to make it happen and what other interests will be affected by that?

Edited May 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

What is useful about this kind of news is that it enables Starmer to ramp up his promise to renegotiate the Brexit trade deal without  being then credibly accused of wanting to rejoin the EU.

Yes - It also indicates a direction travel as commercial realities trump Brexit fantasies.

Rejoining the SM will be back in discussion before the election after next - a 'Norway' etc. Just plain inevitable.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - It also indicates a direction travel as commercial realities trump Brexit fantasies.

Rejoining the SM will be back in discussion before the election after next - a 'Norway' etc. Just plain inevitable.

Nobody gets to just join the single market. The EU is all or nothing now. Also, Norway's agreement with the EU is as a part of EFTA, which itself is a trade bloc that has an agreement to be part of the single market. As stated before, convergence with the EU through CPTPP is far more likely. I look forward to saying 'I told you so' further down the line.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

How do you promise to negotiate anything when it's dependent on the other party being amenable to your aims? What carrots does he intend to offer the EU to make it happen and what other interests will be affected by that?

I'm very sure the EU won't negotiate - they don't need too - after all it's not their fault that Johnson and the Brexiteers had no commercial common sense and signed away the future (and the Tory party as was) despite being warned.

But Starmer doesn't need too does he? All he has to say now is that he will try and renegotiate after the election. It will be the election  after that when things like SM membership get discussed again. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

Just now, Yellow Fever said:

I'm very sure the EU won't negotiate - they don't need too - after all it's not their fault that Johnson and the Brexiteers had no commercial common sense and signed away the future (and the Tory party as was) despite being warned.

But Starmer doesn't need too does he? All he has to say now is that he will try and renegotiate after the election. It will be the election  after that when things like SM membership get discussed again. 

Yup, and then he looks stupid when he fails.

[Yellow Fever 3,852]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Yup, and then he looks stupid when he fails.

To offer try (and fail) is one thing.

To look as stupid and gullible as the remnant Brexiteers is quite another.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

To offer try (and fail) is one thing.

To look as stupid and gullible as the remnant Brexiteers is quite another.

Well, no, he'll look stupid on the measure of his own statement to renegotiate bilaterally.

What astounds me is you have so much contact with Japan, yet seem completely oblivious to the fact that their investment in UK industry (UK car industry, anybody?) has been a large motive for them coming to our diplomatic rescue with the EU, and will also be why they'll be more than happy to smooth things over on this problem through CPTPP, but most likely with agreement with CPTPP as the vehicle rather than us punching Japan in the face by undermining the cornerstone of their own efforts to expand their soft power by abandoning it shortly after joining.

Edited May 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Well b back 3,310]

The reason the EU would listen to Starmer and indeed Sunak for that matter is he is not a lying c*** called Boris Johnson.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

11 minutes ago, Well b back said:

The reason the EU would listen to Starmer and indeed Sunak for that matter is he is not a lying c*** called Boris Johnson.

Listening is one thing; making an agreement to the satisfaction of the 27 EU member states unanimously is quite another. CPTPP offers a much better vehicle to achieve the goal than attempting it bilaterally with nothing to offer.

Edited May 17, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[sonyc 5,541]

36 minutes ago, Well b back said:

The reason the EU would listen to Starmer and indeed Sunak for that matter is he is not a lying c*** called Boris Johnson.

The EU are not stupid either. They will be very keen on any forms of closer relationship with the UK. Trade is affected both ways because of the stupidity of Brexit. Once we get some actual adults in government who demonstrate they can govern then trust will gradually grow. Sunak has been a huge improvement on Johnson but the fact remains his party is still beholden to many lunatics. Brexit has burst the party into at least two parts. You have idiots line Truss (who cannot even say that France is a friend) and the ERG nutters who just talk about having our own sovereignty. Yet they have no idea what to do with it. Isolationism in 2016 or in 2023 or whenever is never the answer. The EU is a collaborative and cooperative entity. There will come a time when the relationship starts to heal.

I no longer listen to Brexiters. Nor should anyone. They embody the wrong set of values for the 21st century. They hark to a past. Isolationism creates mistrust. Our younger generation are starting to understand this and will articulate it far better than the remain campaign ever were able to.

As for this thread it should be renamed The National Disaster that was Brexit. When you have huge industry stakeholders like Vauxhall and populist influencers like Farage state it, the tide has turned. The money men have made their money too. What a hubristic and sad event was Brexit. Ultimately, it is shameful and sad period in our national life.

I'm all for Starmer's plans for EU voters being given an opportunity and for any step whatsoever in finding new forms of collaboration. Whether full membership or a myriad of other ways to build (legitimate) cooperation - but this will all take time. In the meantime, there needs to be a continuation of a campaign to decry the damage done by Brexit. There are many millions to convince still, not just a few on a football forum. People do change their minds even if there will always be the stubborn few who never will.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by sonyc