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Ray

I know better than, Alex Neil, Neil Adams, Chris Hughton, Paul Lambert & Gordon Strachan because…

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Should of made it clear that this thread links to my comments on the Russell Martin thread.

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If only they had used that Football Manager game thingermebob they would see that Martin is crap. [;)]

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We don''t ''know better'' as you so arrogantly put it Ray but like it or not football is a game of opinion and we are entitled to have one that differs from them.

Has it ever crossed your mind that these managers might actually prefer/have preferred to play RM at right back IF they had more reliable centre halves to call upon? After all we''re talking about Norwich and Scotland here not Bayern and Spain.

I can''t speak for the other posters on here but I am a qualified level 2 football coach, not great I know and not up to the names you tout here but still better qualified to have an opinion than a lot on this message board I would imagine.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]We don''t ''know better'' as you so arrogantly put it Ray but like it or not football is a game of opinion and we are entitled to have one that differs from them.

Has it ever crossed your mind that these managers might actually prefer/have preferred to play RM at right back IF they had more reliable centre halves to call upon? After all we''re talking about Norwich and Scotland here not Bayern and Spain.

I can''t speak for the other posters on here but I am a qualified level 2 football coach, not great I know and not up to the names you tout here but still better qualified to have an opinion than a lot on this message board I would imagine.[/quote]

Not sure why they all pick him then ?

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[quote user="ruthers1"]We don''t ''know better'' as you so arrogantly put it Ray[/quote]
But...
[quote user="ruthers1"]I am a qualified level 2 football coach, not great I know and not up to the names you tout here but still better qualified to have an opinion than a lot on this message board I would imagine.[/quote]
Sounds like you know better, Ruthers!

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OK, lets look at the stats.Since Norwich City were promoted in 2011 Russell Martin has played 98 games in the top flight. Of those 98 games he has played 68 as a right back and 30 as a center back. This is over 3 whole seasons, plus the four games this years so far. In that time Norwich have kept 14 clean sheets when Martin has played at right back, a respectable clean sheet every 4.85 games. When he has played center back Norwich have kept just 2 clean sheets, one every 15 games, including a 7-0 and 5-1 against Man City.The stats support the claim that defensively concede less goals with him at right back than center back. Check for yourselves.

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]lies, damn lies and statistics[/quote]Actually I think you''ll find it''s "lie, damn lie and Carling OPTA statistics" [;)]

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Actually, I think you''ll find it''s "planes, trains and automobiles"[/quote]No, no, no. You mean "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels"

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Ray, are you Martins love slave ?. With your daft stats turning him

Into Franz Beckenbauer after every game. Never known such an ordinary player to get such adulation around the villages of Norfolk. Really smacks of little old Norwich.

Let''s just address the three points always brought up in his defence.

1/Picked by various managers 2/Scotland 3/Picked for the league eleven last year.

I reckon just about every player over the age of 25 has been picked by several managers. Otherwise they wouldn''t still be in the game.

Are they all made into icons,and beyond criticism ?. Maybe not.

Then there''s Scotland. Crumbs,they''re even worse than England.

A championship team at best. Hardly a feather in your cap.

Finally that league team of the year. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could see that was a political choice. Just spread over the league as a whole. Not forgetting he''s such a nice guy. Give me Vinny Jones any day.

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ruthers1,

Yes it has crossed my mind managers may have preferred to have played him at RB and some did, what point are you attempting to make here?

Whatever your qualifications you are definitely not better qualified to have an opinion than anyone else on this board, we are equally qualified to have an opinion and all entitled to them, however if your point is that your opinion may be from a more qualified standpoint then I agree with you, you may have a better insight than some. However, that is not the thrust of my post (linked to the one I made on the Russell Martin thread), the thrust of my post was why some posters get personal and judgemental when they post an opinion, and state things as fact, as if they are the fountain of all knowledge, often using belittling/abusive/bullying language and I don’t just mean to or about other posters, I also mean about players.

RM gives the club 100%, for some their opinion may be that he is not a good enough player, but he is obviously good enough for the managers I listed, so why get personal about RM, if they have to blame someone blame the managers for picking him, hence this thread, which had sarcasm at its heart not arrogance.

Mind the gap,

Do you believe all stats are daft? Serious question.

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Ray,I think most of us realise that stats can prove whatever you want them to prove. At my place of work I had stats coming out of every orifice. You believe in your stats,and that''s important for you

For me,he''s a very limited player. Yes,as you say he gives 100 per cent. No doubt about that. But so have many others,without the adulation he gets. In fact he''s talked up so much that I can imagine,a few years down the line. He''ll be talked about in the same breath as some of our great defenders of the past.

Steve Bruce for example. And Dave Watson. Going back further there''s Duncan Forbes,Barry Butler and Ron Ashman. Surely even you. His most devoted fan Can''t think that''s right.

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Mind the gap,

Thanks, I agree stats in and of themselves prove nothing, just because the average temperature on Jan 1st is 5 degrees doesn''t mean it will be 5 degrees next Jan 1st, in fact probably very unlikely to be, just as all the stats Prozone, etc. produce for all Prem clubs (and many others) don''t prove anything, however they do give a picture over time, insomuch we can probably predict next Jan1st will be colder than next July 1st, just as mamagers get a picture over time of who is the most likely to perform better at ''x'' or ''y''.

I think he gets adulation, as you call, it from many, as a rebuff to the scapegoating and abuse he receives from many, as Whitts does too.

I agree, a good defender but one of our greats, possibly not, however I do think he will talked about as an ultimate professional and a great club man. I also have a feeling he may just may be talked about as one of our greatest managers, time will tell on that one.

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There''s only one fact that matters.

And that is Russell Martin is Alex Neil''s choice for centre back and he will continue to be so form the foreseeable future.

So, how about you put your pitchforks away, stop your whining and blubbing and support him like the Norwich City player he is.

That is, unless you enjoy focusing on a scapegoat of course, and surely that''s not the case.

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[quote user="Indy"]I know more about subsea engineering than any of the mentioned above....[/quote]

 

Stick to subsea engineering forums then.

 

 

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[quote user="ruthers1"]I can''t speak for the other posters on here but I am a qualified level 2 football coach.[/quote]

I''ve suspected for a while now that you are Mick McCarthy...

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="Indy"]I know more about subsea engineering than any of the mentioned above....[/quote]

 

Stick to subsea engineering forums then.

 

 

[/quote][:D]Thats my line of work, I wonder if such forums exist?I don''t think I''ll bother to find out.

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[quote user="Fuzzar"]

[quote user="ruthers1"]I can''t speak for the other posters on here but I am a qualified level 2 football coach.[/quote]

I''ve suspected for a while now that you are Mick McCarthy...

[/quote]

The first step for new coaches is to take the Level One Certificate in Coaching Football, which is available throughout the country. It covers the organisation and delivery of safe and enjoyable coaching sessions for players. The course will provide practical drills to develop players’ technical skills and is suited to those working with groups of young players.

The Level Two Certificate in Coaching Football provides a more in-depth understanding of coaching. The course also introduces new themes such as looking at different coaching styles, preparing for accidents and emergencies and players’ nutritional needs.

 

It''s a bit like the badge you get for jumping in the swimming pool in your pyjamas.

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Fuzzar"]

[quote user="ruthers1"]I can''t speak for the other posters on here but I am a qualified level 2 football coach.[/quote]

I''ve suspected for a while now that you are Mick McCarthy...

[/quote]

The first step for new coaches is to take the Level One Certificate in Coaching Football, which is available throughout the country. It covers the organisation and delivery of safe and enjoyable coaching sessions for players. The course will provide practical drills to develop players’ technical skills and is suited to those working with groups of young players.

The Level Two Certificate in Coaching Football provides a more in-depth understanding of coaching. The course also introduces new themes such as looking at different coaching styles, preparing for accidents and emergencies and players’ nutritional needs.

 

It''s a bit like the badge you get for jumping in the swimming pool in your pyjamas.

 

 

 

[/quote]Level three you also have to recover the rubber brick?

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[quote user="Ray"]Mind the gap,

Thanks, I agree stats in and of themselves prove nothing, just because the average temperature on Jan 1st is 5 degrees doesn''t mean it will be 5 degrees next Jan 1st, in fact probably very unlikely to be, just as all the stats Prozone, etc. produce for all Prem clubs (and many others) don''t prove anything, however they do give a picture over time, insomuch we can probably predict next Jan1st will be colder than next July 1st, just as mamagers get a picture over time of who is the most likely to perform better at ''x'' or ''y''.

I think he gets adulation, as you call, it from many, as a rebuff to the scapegoating and abuse he receives from many, as Whitts does too.

I agree, a good defender but one of our greats, possibly not, however I do think he will talked about as an ultimate professional and a great club man. I also have a feeling he may just may be talked about as one of our greatest managers, time will tell on that one.[/quote]That statement is just plain wrong. The stats that I gave earlier show that over 100 games Norwich are more than three times more likely to keep a clean sheet with Martin playing at right back, than we are with him at center back. In fact we have even kept more than clean sheets in the 20 Premier League games than he has not played in at all than when he has played in the center.And I expect that if we are to keep our Premier League status for next year we are going to have to keep more than two clean sheets this season. I hope that we can do it with Martin playing at center back because it looks like he will have to play the majority of games there this season, but history does not fill me with confidence. This is why I think we should have put more effort into signing a central defender this season than we did trying to sign a striker. After all we play with only one striker and now have 5 in the squad (with 1 more out on loan), where as we play with 2 center backs and have only 4 (two of which, Wisdom and Martin, I would argue are right backs) in our squad.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]We don''t ''know better'' as you so arrogantly put it Ray but like it or not football is a game of opinion and we are entitled to have one that differs from them.

Has it ever crossed your mind that these managers might actually prefer/have preferred to play RM at right back IF they had more reliable centre halves to call upon? After all we''re talking about Norwich and Scotland here not Bayern and Spain.

I can''t speak for the other posters on here but I am a qualified level 2 football coach, not great I know and not up to the names you tout here but still better qualified to have an opinion than a lot on this message board I would imagine.[/quote]

And you accuse him of arrogance !!

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Everything you need to know about coaching a football team can be learnt from the great Jossy Blair, his Glipton Giants where unstoppable.

 

 

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Iwans big toe,

I think you''re waging peace on me here, either I didn''t make it clear in my post or you misunderstood my point, or both. My point was in reply to a comment about ''stats being daft'' and my statement re stats proving nothing was referring to stats in one game alone, I fully agree that over time they certainly give an indication of performance, or expected performance, which I attempted to explain with the temperature example, my apologies if this gave a confused message.

Therefore I take your point re RB/CB however taking the goals conceded in isolation may also be dangerous, there will be a myriad of stats around other aspects of performance, which I suspect the manager takes into account and as he is still playing RM at CB then it may well be he is privy to something we are not.

I know what follows is a simplistic view but it does appear that currently AN is of the ''we''ll score more goals than you do'' school of thought, the point you make re number of strikers and defenders sort of underlines this and of course it makes for great entertainment, well it does when compared with the CH ''shut up shop'' methdology, but it does leave us vulnerable and I suspect we may be on the end of a hiding or two from some of the ''big boys'' but on the basis we are unlikely to score many points against them anyway, perhaps the scoreline is irrelevant, especially if we pick up wins against the rest of the teams in the league. On the basis of what we witnessed in our first three fixtures my opinion is that we will, I am also of the opinion that AN may make mistakes but he is a quick learner, either way I think we are in for an entertaining season.

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