John

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Hell no, Terrible tactics in the first half. Its like he realised that liverpool were good after half time. I''m not gonna say, if we had hughton we would''ve got a point or nicked it, just like people can''t say we would have lost 6-0. The fact that the he doesn''t know how to use this team effectively against liverpool is absolutely shocking. Why play Redmond up front? It didn''t work last week and in a game where we need to actually have a shape and keep our shape, we play like that. That first half was all down to Neil Adams; too much space between defence and midfield. Warz gon orn Neyul?[/quote]Miggins seems to have dramatised the issues here, but there were certainly some frailties in our play that we cumbersomely slow in rectifying, whether it was our ill-advised, and poor, execution of zonal marking with a defence that is liable to get done for pace and skill, especially against players like Suarez and Sterling that are capable of utilising space to the fullest and tremendously dangerous when cutting inside, or our direct football to and from the wings, that on those occasions Liverpool were exposed ended with our players wrongly opting to cross the ball into an under-staffed offensive play in the box rather than probe and keep play on the deck, as is in-keeping with the strengths of our strikers. In summary the players didn''t compliment the formation,  and the formation didn''t compliment the systems of play, which ultimately ended in a set of evident rudimentary errors in the overall performance that resulted in us being more hopeful on the opposition''s weaknesses than clinical in expressing our strengths.However for all of that we stuck with it and displayed a passionate performance, if somewhat nervous on the ball, and ended the game with a respectful scoreline.Tactics are a difficult issue to press Adams on at the moment however, only just having entered the fold with bearly any time to impose his style on the team, but for a change in the broad ethos preferring attack to defence. How he copes with the remaining games will bring small, but valuable clarity, on the matter.I have no doubt if he keeps us up he will be deserving of another year in the job. However if we go down, there will need to be some sort of in-depth analysis or inquest into the developments of our play post-Hughton to determine whether that option would truly benefit us in the long run.

[quote user="Pauls Ferry"] We were on course to stay up until we sacked the manager..[/quote]The frustration i''ll feel when dumb arse pundits come out with nonsense like that, and that "Hughton had us outside of the relegation zone before he was sacked and Adam''s took over", and the like... I may just spontaneuosly combust.Indeed i hope as much so i won''t have to suffer the pile of such diatribe that is likely to flow after the season ends.

I can imagine Morris'', much like the Murphys and Loza, career developing in a similar manner to Jordan Rhodes'' did if they are to be successful. That means a successful stint in League Two before they''re 21, and reaching upper Championship/lower Premiership standards by the age of 23 or 24.Hopefully, unlike Rhodes, this process can be held in its entirety whilst they remain contractually bound to the club and facilitated by a series of loans rather than transfers.

[quote user="Unhinged Canary"]1 win (Most likely Fulham) and we''re pretty much safe bar the shouting, and with that I feel Adams would have done his job. Get the players, fans and board back together and bring a much needed injection of hope to the club.Anything else such as a point from Arsenal or Manure would be a bonus and would be seen as such.If the worst happens and we get no more points then Adams can''t be held responsible as it was always going to be a massive task.Stay up or go down, Adams returns to prior position with reputation undamaged or enhanced and a new manager is brought in for the new season dependent on which league it will be in.[/quote]I think we''ll find that IF Adam''s is successful in keeping us up, and is generally seen to have improved the side, we won''t reasonably be able to expect to replace him for the forthcoming season, and neither do i think we''d truly want to. Adam''s will have proven he is at least competent enough at Premier League level with regards to man-management and tactics, and in the long run he''s the most able candidate for drafting in our successful youth team over the course of the next couple of years.This scenario requires a lot of IF''s, but Norwich fans should not make the mistake of thinking that another turn on the manager merry-go-round at Norwich in the next 12 months is a forgone conclusion.

Sounds like Gunn during the televised Leeds away game that he was a pundit for during our League One Season, where he said he firmly believed he''d have us similarly poised in the play-off places like his successor at that time, had he not been sacked... Thankfully it was all part of a road to success that even Gunn himself could not possibly suggest he was capable of mirroring with any degree of sanity or sincerity.Hopefully that proves to be the case once again.

Regardless of what any one says i believe with every fibre of my being Hughton would have failed to keep us up, the attitude of the players (taken out of the context that we''ve become far too accustomed to) was unequivocally defeatist. They had inexcusably resigned themselves to defeat, that much was abundantly clear. The situation was in desperate need of some sort of catalyst to rectify it and instil some passion in the side. Adam''s will be aggressive in his chance to save a club he is so closely affiliated with, and will for better or worse be a marked difference to the passivity of Hughton''s regime. In that alone i find it easier to reconcile myself with the current state of the club, even if it doesn''t save us... At least we''ll go down with someone fighting for the badge.

[quote user="lake district canary"]And there we have it. The voice of reason.   Would take relegation.    Some fan. [/quote]I''d presume Waveny is just running high on frustration, and unless Waveny wishes to correct me, i''m sure he wouldn''t take relegation with open arms under any circumstance that didn''t contain any greater overall prospective benefit for the club (as far as he saw it). I''d suppose he see''s relegation (as far as it means Hughton is to then be sacked) as a catalyst that will throw us onto a more successful trajectory than the one we''re consigned to under Hughton''s stewardship. Right or wrong is besides the point, it is only speculation that we can choose to deliberate over or not; there is no reason to allow it to devolve into an argument of ad hominems.In truth I''m supposing a lot, but i''m inclined to give inner and outers alike similar benefit of the doubt as far as i regard them as fans of the club, should i consider them misled or not. No more than that respectful precedent is enough to diffuse the partisanship on this forum. If more people were willing to acknowledge that at least, all these petty articles and comments that are tantamount to engaging in childish smear campaigns will be treated as they deserve - with no more than a blind eye, and so much as a click onto its link to acknowledge it with a view.In response to the article i''m not willing to accept relegation under any circumstance i can personally concieve of as such an event''s fiscal detriment to the club is too overwhelming for me to ignore. The club is in desperate need of some impetus however, and i''ve been more or less certain as of around January time that this would require (at the very least) dismissing Hughton. That''s not me making a concession on my standpoint on relegation however, as i''d only be delighted to find out that as of 5 o''clock May 11th Norwich are destined to play at least another season of Premier League football, Hughton''s incumbent on the Norwich payroll or not.

I''ll take back my 5 or 6 comment, in retrospect that''s overly harsh.

In terms of worst, there were not all that many redeeming qualities to our performances against Spurs away and Manchester City away.There can''t be any more than a group of 5 or 6 performances this season that count as good - the best among them would probably be between any of Cardiff at home, Spurs at home and Stoke away.

Don''t quite know how to interpret the title of this post in relation to the article other than that the inners are the only ones that should be worrying about the prospect of relegation.I want Hughton out of the club as much as anyone, but even more so i want Norwich to stay up (again, as much as anyone), and those predictions should be a grim and troubling read for true Norwich fans far and wide, the ins, the outs, and the shake it all abouts.Can i see Hughton getting us out of this mess? Hardly, but i wouldn''t half be happy for him to defy my expectations.

[quote user="City1st"]"Forward thinking players, like Wolfswinkel, Hooper, Snodgrass, Fer, and as i saw today a couple of times with Pilkington, are increasinly growing frustrated with this glaring weakness in the side" the weakness is in the tactics watch each team when they have the ball the opposition is constantly moving and offering options - we are not, that is why players struggle to find someone to pass to that is why our players look up in frustration when there is no one to pass to because the opposition have closed us down[/quote]I agree in part City1st, in that the tactics and movement are partly culpable for the weakness. But i''ve seen more than a few attempts from the likes of those players mentioned to run into space and then not get picked up by our distributor of the ball, and can remember them holding their heads up in frustration more than i can say of anyone else in the side. As the season has worn on the amount of runs being made has dropped further than it was at the start, and i consider our less than encouraging ball playing (that could render such movement worthwhile if decent enough) the biggest factor in this decline.

It struck me throughout the game (and not for the first time this season) that we were struggling to retain the ball. Forfeiting possession as easily and often (and at times amateurishly) as we do, while competing at this level, is reckless and inexcusable. The quality of distribution is woeful, and it has oddly enough in my opinion been a prime factor in diminishing the amount of off the ball movement during plays in the opposition half from us. Forward thinking players, like Wolfswinkel, Hooper, Snodgrass, Fer, and as i saw today a couple of times with Pilkington, are increasinly growing frustrated with this glaring weakness in the side. They now seem drained of motivation and simply follow the wavelength and unambitious patterns of the far less able majority of players in the side, at the expense of trying to expose threatening spaces in the oppositions midfield and defence (because they''re simply unlikely to be found before being marked out of play).The amount of misread plays (triangles, give and go''s, through balls... etc.) i saw also is equally woeful, and equally contributing to the growing disheartenment in the side, and nullifying this aspect of our play.I rarely, if ever, see these characteristics of play come to the fore as prominently in our opposition, and i would not in the least bit be surprised if our poor average possession in a game this season is mostly down to these few observations.As far as turning a corner goes, for me at the bottom of it is simply getting the basics of on the ball team play right, rehearsing different plays until the players eyes bleed in training. The matter shouldn''t be complex, but for designing creative plays to surprise and destabalise the opposition perhaps (as long as one can efficiently execute them - that is none too hard to do if you''ve been told to do it right 20 times in a row before being allowed a break). How Hughton has let this rot sink in however without directly attending to it is a measure of his naivety as a manager in my opinion. These disjuncts in our performances would not have persisted like they have under a manager with a level of Premier League competency, least of all in a side that occupies the lower end of the table, of which efforts to retain the ball must surely be paramount or else succumb to the mercilessness of this league.Nevertheless i still find myself in limbo as far as the IN/OUT debate goes. The stubborness and resilience of the players under him shows there is still plenty of faith in him, even if it is misguided (and understandable - heck i''d struggle to bring myself to the belief that a boss as nice Hughton should get the sack if i was working under him); though if that faith is enough to maintain that urge to meet the requirements of ones job (and by extension achieve survival) then i''m compelled by principle to let him stay.As for another season at the helm i feel we''d be doing the talent in our side as much a disservice as ourselves if we don''t get rid. In that regard it is certainly an unequivocal out from me.

[quote user="Captain Obvious"]One Toon fan''s withering assessment of our attitude -"Norwich fans don''t seem to realise that they still have one of the weakest squads in the Premiership, a squad that always should''ve been fighting relegation in 16th or 17th instead of bobbing around in mid table under Lambert and Hughton. For the first time in several years under the mangers mentioned above, they sunk to around where they should have been all the time, about the same as Wigan under Martinez and almost immediately there was talk of Hughton being sacked. Norwich fans are pathetic and deluded about what they have."[/quote]Pathetic and deluded enough to expect to beat Luton at home, to not get beat 7-0 away to Manchester City, to manage a better goal a game ratio than 0.81 with a strike force costing approximately £15 million scoring only 6 goals in 30 games, among other things.I''m going to go out on a limb here and say it is neither pathetic or deluded for a Norwich fan to expect more than facts such as these on the basis of what we have.(note i''m not saying Hughton in or out, only that more than a couple of aspects or moments in our performances have been well below par and what we can rightfully expect, and that this post quoted from the Newcastle board is a resounding piece of bull****)

The past 6 games were an unlikely stretch of matches that were not only winnable on our part, but often pitted us as favourites. It''s not something we''re likely to experience during the course of the season, and considering our conspicuously unfavourable run towards the end, the onus is on us during these kind of periods to gain a decent tally of points.The fact that our point per game ratio has been 1:1 (spread out over the seasons leading us to 38 points) at this time is barely grasping survival form, making me very concerned. If one considers the likely prospect that this is perhaps our easiest run of 6 games for the season, we need to be doing far better than we are, seeing that we''re also likely to lapse back into our early season form during the tail end of the season.1 Win in 6 games such as those we''ve played, including 2 losses (and no wins) at home, is immensely worrying, and unlike some i can''t honestly say that we''re assured the minimum of survival under Hughton. Moreover i''d suggest relegation is a far more likely prospect on the basis of the available evidence.Considering the freakishly awful form that preceded this poor run, i find little redemption in Hughton''s record for this season. As a result i''m inclined to wanting him out, and providing the board have done their job and have a precautionary plan for life without Hughton, it seems the obvious less risky route to go down for the rational (yet admittedly less informed) observer.

I only ask that they mind their own business.

[quote user="RollesbyCanary"]He has been really good, i just wish we had another full back with his quality to play on the right.[/quote]Perhaps Kyle Naughton? Doesn''t seem to be getting much of look in at Tottenham.

I''d ask for context, but any context that could save Hughton and his credibility on this quote is beyond my imagination. If quoted correcty, that is quite simply unforgiveable and i certainly don''t want him managing Norwich City Football Club, nor do i want anyone else sharing that mentality to. We''d be better off for avoiding it like the plague.Unfortunately that statement is eerily illustrative of what we''ve come to routinely expect from Hughton during his tenure. I''m not comfortable with self-imposed psychological limitations - lord knows the world has enough physical limitations to impose on us, without us passively kneeling to them. We are in desperate need of some resilience, if this quote is anything to go by, Hughton will never be the man to ignite our readiness for a fight. He deplores our inability to dig deep, but he doesn''t seem to account at all for his responsibility toward encouraging the team to do so in the first place.If the players are not fighting for a result, what are they fighting for that is of any real worth when we play the bigger sides? With rallying cries like this my wage packet would be the only thing keeping me from not bothering to turn up in the first place, let alone play like i mean it.At this point he comes across as a frustrated novice with regard to management i''m afraid. If he doesn''t have the wisdom to leave, the responsibility is on our board to make sure he does. This is frightfully unacceptable.

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]Thanks, ricardo. Did you get any sense from the body language/mood music stuff of what the board''s view of Hughton really is and/or of Hughton''s view of how secure he feels his position is?[/quote]They all seemed calm and confident to me and never ducked a question. Obviously they know that staying in the Premier league is paramount but I detected no signs that they doubt this will be achieved.[/quote]If that''s the case i''m willing to let them see out the season with Hughton in his managerial position, with my sincere support, even if i myself don''t believe Hughton truly is up to the task.The cost of failing to achieve this however will have far reaching implications; this in my opinion would place not only Hughton, but also the boards position as untenable. If anyone by the end of this season is responsible for us walking blindly into relegation, any pay or work afforded to them in their role at this club is thereafter as far as i can see, charity. That will without a doubt include Hughton if he completes the season (especially if from now on is in anyway reminscient of the manner that he''s performed so far this season), and (dare i say) quite probably McNally also.There is certainly a large potential cost to any trust we could possibly afford them considering how poor Hughton has been in his capacity at the club of late, and how obvious to any viewer.

I could have taken a defeat so long as we gave a promising account of ourselves. So far, bar a couple of passages of play, there has not been anywhere near enough over these past 45 minutes to indicate we can even muster this. The defending has been atrocious on numerous occasions (the routine feeling that followed the goals is, taken in isolation, for me deeply disturbing), and any forays into Newcastles half have been very short lived, and almost without exception, in vain.I''d admit that i somewhat suspected this might be how it played out prior to the game, but i reserve final judgement on the game until the final whistle.

I am not necessarily expecting a result from the weekend. A win would be a delightful surprise, a draw would be a positive platform for the win i expect (without any concession) of us the following weekend, and a loss (under certain conditions) i''d find excusable.What isn''t excusable, and what i most definitely expect of the side, is that they perform well. If the side were to fail in this department, and simultaneously gather a negative result, i''d of lost faith in Hughtons impact on the side. Hughton has been afforded as much the quantity as the variety of poor performances for this portion of the season already - in my view, there''s little, if any room, to add to these before January if Hughton can expect to keep his job for the time being. If he fails to maintain the positive attitude brought about by our breakthrough against West Ham after that first (and in truth, rather fortuitous) goal, it''ll prove this upturn to be no more than an ephemeron with little owing to Hughton but luck.

[quote user="First Wizard"]There is still a tremendous ''team spirt'' amongst the players, whether that extends to CH or not I don''t honestly know.[/quote]An unusually measured response coming from you.

Unless there is a dramatic change after half-time, i am unequivocally for Hughton leaving. What i''ve seen so far is truly horrendus, no two ways about it.I don''t feel the talent in the side has diminished at all, but the ethos introduced by the Lambert incumbent that defined the nature of our approach to games has gone. The drop in energy, space covered, resolve, execution, and confidence has been inescapably noticeable. I''d consider it Hughtons biggest failure that he didn''t notice the important factors that comprised this ethos - and rather than discerning them, delicately handling them and developing them, he clumsily dismantled the whole set-up behind it. I''m slightly concerned that if the next manager doesn''t engineer something quite exemplary, we will find that only something as impactful as relegation will have any chance of once again re-igniting this desireable competitive ethos.

I''d say in, for now.Anything less than 5 points in his next 3 games, unquestionably he has to leave. Though if he manages less than 7 points from the next 3 he''ll have to get some sort of result away to Liverpool to consolidate his job. In that instance also, he has to leave.Having said all that, if the board feel it is right to get rid of Hughton now i''m behind them and their judgement 100%.

At points like these i get the feeling that the tangent irreversibly directed toward a negative outcome. Even if Hughton were to win next week, or even the week after (big if), the burden of his failures since the early part of last season seems to weigh too heavy.Every chance given to him from this point onwards is a costly one for a man seemingly destined to drown. Todays game had no redeeming factor to speak of. The situation concerning Norwich and Hughton has become far too desperate - in such circumstances cutting our losses and trying something else seems to me to be the only appropriate course of action at this juncture.Until half time today i was willing to give him two more home games. With little or no effect on an already horrific performance, his influence at the club cannot any longer be considered of value to our aspirations. At such a point it is best for all parties concerned that he leave.

[quote user="morty"]But if the performance today suggests he has lost the dressing room, then he has to go now.[/quote]The last goal (goal 6) felt to some degree to be an indication of that.Little can be said for the improved defending under Hughtons reign if that''s taken as a sample of over a years endeavour to shore up the defence.I felt if after half time Hughton could rectify the situation so that we could maintain at least a maximum of a 4 goal deficit, he should be allowed to show if he has anything to offer in response to this shocking performance with a win against West Ham. But the sheer hopelessness of this performance either side of half time warrants putting Hughtons position into serious consideration.In my opinion this line of thought should now be coming from all quarters.