Robert N. LiM

My understanding of the gubbins is that you can only top it up TO a total of three or five years. So in other words you could add an extra year to your season ticket to make it three more seasons to run. Or you could add three more years to top it up to five. But you can''t add two more years to top it up to four. That probably couldn''t make less sense, but I reckon you can do what you want to do. Definitely call the ticket office.  

I don''t think anyone could disagree with that. I thought yesterday''s performance proved that there''s no way we''ll get relegated, but that equally those who have been talking of the play-offs are seriously deluded. We have no real cutting edge, and we''re going to draw too many games because of that.

We are roughly the twentieth best supported club in the country. Therefore, taking into account natural ups and downs (say ten places either way), we should always finish in the bottom half of the Premiership or the top half of the Championship. The fact that there are some smaller clubs than us with rich benefactors (including Wigan, Reading, Fulham, and I would argue, Middlesborough and Blackburn in the Premiership) makes that task a bit harder, so maybe bottom third of the Prem and top half of the Championship. I think that is a reasonable expectation. Our glory days of the late 80s and early 90s were a clear case of over-achievement. Equally the pre-Worthington years in the second tier were a clear case of under-achievement. Under Worthington we were roughly where we should be. Now we''re underachieving again. We have the manager to get us back where we should be. There''s no question that the January window is a tough place to get a good deal, and the time to judge is at the end of it.

Those who put it down to leadership are spot on. In the early weeks of the season, if Dublin wasn''t in the side, we had no one on the pitch with any leadership or presence at all, and we looked a rabble as a result. Fozzy looks as though he has this quality, too. And Mr Barclay, FFS change the record on Holt. You slagged him off last week and everyone shouted you down. He was a great player for NCFC. You''re wrong about him, everyone else is right. Get over it.  

Mr Fleck''s right thigh (great name by the way) - the quote option doesnt seem to be working for me, but I''m replying to your post... I meant this season. If we went up we''d be a lot worse than Derby. We''d have to buy a totally new team, all of whom would leave at the end of the season when we got relegated. I was only saying that I would much rather Roeder built a decent side that could compete in Premiership with a few quality additions (like Reading did, for instance). But as you say, it''s all academic anyway. We have no chance of reaching the play-offs. All I was saying was that I don''t think it''s a bad thing, this time round. I expect us to be in proper contention next season, though.

Why does Pattison not count? The play-offs are miles away. And what would be the point anyway - we''d get utterly trashed in the Premiership. Far better to give it a proper go next season. But I do agree that we need more. Taylor, Quashie and Ameobi for me. Come on Deels, get that chequebook out.

[quote user="Adam_Newcastle91"]and when was this fixture by my calculations nearly 3 years its been since u played us shows how downward you are and if its not at least another 3 years until you play us in the league ill be surprised[/quote] I actually hope Keegan does ok, but I suspect it will all end in tears. Not out of the question that the next meeting might be in next season''s championship. Still, at least you avoided appointing the ridiculous Shearer. What have you got against Norwich, by the way?

[quote user="Adam_Newcastle91"] [quote user="Heeley5"]Love it if we beat them!!!!! love it!!!!![/quote] Norwich beating us hahaha take up stand up comedy please im in stitches [/quote] remind me of the result the last time the two teams met in a competitive fixture? I think most vacancies in stand-up comedy have been filled by the board, managers and fans of NUFC.

From Waghorn''s site http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/full_article.asp?i=2450&w=25&a=0&part=0 Very interesting article. Prices up by just under 3%, but cheaper season tickets for Under 21s. Thoughts?

Brilliant. Shearer is a joke. Brilliant hatchet job on him in this week''s Guardian sportsblog: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/01/16/black_widow_shearer_answerable.html Well worth a read.  

[quote user="Smudger"] It was a crucial game on the back of Lappins last minute winner at Luton last season and could prove to be just as critical this year. Will we come away from Oakwell with another unexpected but fantastic display and welcome victory this time around??? [/quote] How refreshing to see you discussing football, Smudger. Long may it continue. The football''s better under Roeder and we look a much better outfit. I really recommend that you get yourself down to Carrow Road next week for the Leicester game, and cheer the boys on - you might enjoy it. Then go and have a go at the board afterwards, especially if we haven''t made any signings by then. Happy New Year.

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"] Still bemused by the clamour for Taylor.   His goals per game conceeded this season (1.5) is only better than Murrays (1.6) and marginally better than shax (1.45) yet  significantly worse than Dion (1.25) or Doc (1.06). He does score best on points won per game played (1.6) with doc and shax next best (1.1) Dion at 0.75 and Murray 0.2.   However Tayors points scoring (and the majority of shax) coincided with the arrival of Fozzy - without him in the side instead of 13 points the team only won 1 point. None of that suggests he is either significantly better than Shax or Doc nor that he is worth spending so much money on when we would get more points by getting a goal scoring striker.    [/quote] Think you''re getting a bit caught up with your stats here, Zipper. Clearly the arrival of Taylor was not the only thing that sorted out our defence - as you rightly say the return of the Foz and Roeder''s arrival must also be factored in. But what a difference it made to have a centre-back who looked comfortable on the ball. The whole team looked more confident as a result. The Iliev rumours are very interesting, though. Surely the board must see that 1million for Taylor is a much safer bet than 700k for Iliev. Which would suggest we want them both. I agree that a striker is a priority, but it is still absurd that we only have two centre backs at the club. Given that Dublin is unable to play any number of games in a row, an injury to Shacks or Doherty would guarantee relegation, whether we sign a striker or not.

One Reading fan on the Guardian Sportblog said that he was sort of looking forward to them getting relegated because it was much more interesting in the Championship. I can''t think of a more depressing indictment of the Premier League. The season we won the Championship was one of my favourite years of supporting City. I emigrated at the end of it and don''t regret for a second missing the Great Premiership Adventure (TM). As someone said, Sky have killed the Premier League for real fans of clubs like Norwich. Sky have changed football from sport to entertainment. Supporting Man Utd by watching them on Sky is like being a fan of EastEnders. Unfortunately, the mindless fools who only watch it on TV haven''t noticed yet that the Premier League is boring and predictable. The sooner the big four go and join a made-for-TV European super league, leaving the Premier League to become a football competition again, the better.

I''m not going to claim that we were great yesterday, but nor we were absolutely abysmal. If we''d been 3-0 up after 15 minutes it would have been a fair reflection of the chances we created - the only thing that was abysmal was the finishing, from Martin''s awful miss in the first 45 seconds to Huckerby''s wasted chance in injury time. The overall performance was actually alright. It just tells us what we already knew. 1) we have to improve our defence of set-pieces. Offside or not, their goal was comically awful. 2) we need to sign a centre-forward urgently. I think Chris Martin and Ryan Jarvis were given just enough rope to hang themselves today.   And I''m still pleased that we''re trying to pass it, even if, as yet, we''re not very good at it. Look at some of the other results in the Cup today, and have a bit of perspective.

Roeder said at the press conference that "As far as Ryan is concerned if he plays like I''m expecting him to play over the next four months, I don''t suppose we''ll be able to afford him..." (quoted on Waghorn''s site) remarkably high praise for an 18-year-old without a senior appearance in the top two leagues. Let''s hope he''s as good as Glenn thinks.

I shall be giving Colin a round of applause as a representative, however peripheral, of the finest era in City''s history. I wonder if a less talented player has ever played in the San Siro? He was one of the beneficiaries of the three suspended Ians that cost us dear that day.

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"]  He was rubbish, the worst game was at palace when Shacks played left back and had a mare...... [/quote] Um...an early contender for most ridiculous post of 2008? Holty might not have been up to the Premiership, especially with one of his three lungs full of blood, but he was simply outstanding in the play-off year and almost as good the year we won the championship. If Matty-Patty has half the influence on NCFC that Gary Holt had, he''s a bargain, whatever Roeder paid.

I used to live in Croydon, and the thought of going there voluntarily with a hangover to sit in that awful stand in a ground where we always lose meant I didn''t make the journey. Sounds as though Croft had a a decent game. If so, I would definitely be one of those proved wrong. In the games I''ve seen, his crossing and positional sense has been awful. He runs well with the ball at pace, but I can''t remember him actually creating a chance. I can well understand why Jimmy Smith got in the team ahead of him. Lets hope that Croft keeps it up - it might be at the expense of Hucks, though, since I can''t see Roeder playing two midfielders who don''t add anything defensively in the same line-up. I''d be tempted to try a five-man midfield in the Bury game, to see if it works          Evans (assuming he returns) Huckerby - Pattison - Fotheringham - Russell - Croft It''s the ideal 4-5-1, becoming a properly attacking 4-3-3. The only question is, do we have a striker capable of playing the lone role up front? Cureton - too small. Dublin - too slow. Strihavka - ha ha ha ha ha. Evans has the touch as long as the service is good. Brown is probably the best target man, but not exactly a natural goalscorer. hmmm

CA, I think you''re getting a bit worked up about nothing on this thread. Very few people are criticising Hucks'' immense contribution to this football club. Certainly he''s brought me more pleasure than almost any other player I can think of in nearly 25 years of supporting City. They''re just saying that he looks past his best, which on this season''s evidence is certainly an opinion that could be supported. I think the question is whether Hucks can adapt and become a slightly different player in the twilight of his career. In the Charlton and Wolves games, he played like he always does - head down, running at defenders. But he never looked likely to skin anyone, and his final ball was as it has always been: ropey to say the least. So can Hucks change his game a little? Play with his head up a bit more, look to give the early pass and get it back, and to use his ability to beat defenders on fewer but more effective occasions. In other words, can he do, at a lower level, what Giggs has done for Man Utd? You don''t see Giggs skinning players the way he used to, but he never wastes the ball. Obviously Giggs is a truly great player, but I would argue that Huckerby is his equivalent in the division below. I hope Hucks can become a major part of a successful second half to the season, either in a slightly different incarnation, or as a impact player from the bench. And I hope he can be instrumental in building the team that will come after him. When he retires we should definitely name a cul-de-sac after him.  

There is nothing intrinsically offensive about words - there are only offensive ideas or beliefs. I would argue that "Pardew, you''re a c**t" is far less offensive than the West Ham fans shouting "Tumour Boy" at Roeder, despite the latter having no swearwords in it. So the issue is about manners, respecting the beliefs of others. Personally I think there''s nothing wrong with swearing, but my parents are offended by it, so I don''t swear in front of them, because I respect their beliefs although I don''t share them. I agree that with all-seater stadiums it''s far more difficult to watch the game with people who want to behave the same way as you. Perhaps we should have separate sections for: non-swearers with kids swearers who think going to football is a perfect opportunity to educate their kids as to when swearing is and isn''t acceptable. people who just want to moan (although we already have that in the lower River End) people who want to stand constantly and sing their hearts out for the lads. people who want to sing "My old man said be an Ipswich fan, I said, f*** off b******s, you''re a c***. those who love Delia those who think it was much better in their day I don''t think fans should bully players. Sustained abuse or any kind of racist or homophobic chants or remarks are obviously totally unacceptable. But, a returning player who deserted City should expect a bit of stick, a manager who tries to waste time or get one of our players booked should expect to be called a c***. Ipswich players should expect to get booed. I think Matt Holland''s shoulders are more than broad enough to put up with the mild treatment he got on Boxing Day. As for the kids, the only thing they need to learn is that swearing is acceptable at some times and in some places, not in others. It''s just manners. Personally, I think swearing is acceptable in a football ground. How are you supposed to watch Hucks disappearing down another blind alley without swearing?

We did indeed get slaughtered 1-1. But a month ago we would have lost that game comfortably, and credit to the players for fighting it out in the second half even though there was very little quality. A creative presence in the centre of midfield is essential, whether it''s Fozzy, Smith or a new signing. I thought Rusty and especially Pattison had good games, but with Hucks dreadful and Smith a fish out of water, we had no intelligent prompting from midfield. Had we beaten Charlton and lost to Wolves we''d have one more point, but in a sense I think the continuation of an unbeaten run might be more valuable. Having said that, we''re at Selhurst Park next... Ratings in broad agreement with Zipper and Mister Chops. Marshall 7 - kept us in it, to be honest. Great shot-stopper; much to learn in terms of commanding his area. Otsemobor 5 - poor game, I thought. Couldn''t rely on his pace against an equally speedy opposite number, and his shaky positional sense was exposed, not least in his astonishing laziness in marking for the throw that led to Wolves'' goal. Shax 5 - made the Doc look like Bobby Moore. Doc 7 - the Doc''s in good form at the moment and hardly put a foot wrong. Camara - 6 Defends very high up the pitch and often gets away with it, but he scares the hell out of me to be honest. Smith 6 - continues to struggle on the right. But gives a solidity which is underrated. I''d like to see him in the middle. Hux 5 - I don''t enjoy criticising a City legend, but it is clear he no longer has the scorching pace to destroy teams, and he needs to adopt his approach and bring others into the game if he is to be an asset to us. Any anticipation when he got the ball was based on former glories than on anything he did in yesterday''s game. Rusty 7 - Worth only a 6 in the the first half, but, remarkably given his outstanding performance on Boxing Day, got better as the match went on and was instrumental in us holding out in the last few minutes. Not particularly creative, but we know that. Finally looking like the player we hoped we''d bought in July. Patty 8 - My MOTM. Out of the game in the first 30 minutes, but provided the desire and aggression the whole team (and the fans) lacked at the start. He must be signed. But I agree that a central midfield with him and Rusty is not creative enough. That''s not their fault, though. Evans 6 - He is a special player. One drag-back while he was practically sitting down brought gasps of admiration from those around me. Very little decent service. Another one who I would like us to keep - a season loan is the best we can hope for. Cureton 7 - He scored. That''s what he''s in the team for.   Subs Croft  5  Promises much, but delivers virtually nothing. One cross from an unpressured position in acres of space was simply scandalous. Needs a long hard look at himself - is being kept out of the team by a barely-fit kid playing out of position - and rightly so. Dion 6 - a couple of decent flicks, but suffered from poor service just as much as Evans Brown - no real time to assess. Bet he was delighted to get 2 minutes on the left wing to prove his worth before the window.

[quote user="Mister Chops"] Ideally, I''d have neither.  If I had to choose one, it would be Doherty.  Yes, he''s agricultural, yes he hoofs it, but Shackell is a liability. [/quote] Doc is in good form at the moment and the clear favourite to partner Tiny Taylor, if we ever see him again. The awful truth is that Doc''s passing out of defence is better than Shackell''s. I have a particular fondness for the 70-yard Beckenbauer-style crossfield pass that the Doc aims at Huckerby once every game, despite the fact that it always drifts into row D of the City or Jarrold stands. I think in the Doc''s mind it always goes perfectly to Hucks'' feet. One of these days it''s going to work. But I digress. Both are decent-ish mid-table Championship defenders. Either would benefit from the calming influence of Taylor beside them. It is nothing short of a disgrace that a club of our stature should currently have no credible options to replace or challenge them in the centre of defence.

  Obviously assuming we keep the loan players, permanently in Patty''s case, short-term contract for Mo, season-long loans for Smith and Evans              Lewis Semmy Doc Shackell Mo Croft Pattison Smith Hucks          Brown Cureton   About time Joe Lewis got a run out in the first team. Keep the defence as it is - stability is crucial in that area. Oh, and there aren''t any options anyway. give Rusty a well-earned rest. See if Smith can play in the middle. Give Croft enough rope to hang himself on the wing. A break for Ched and Dion and a sip in the last-chance saloon for Chris Brown.

I''m almost in full agreement with you, JC. Clearly Roeder doesn''t like the idea of two out-and-out wingers so wants someone who can tuck in and give us a little more stability in midfield. The problem is that Smith is obviously uncomfortable in that position. I would like to see him in the middle with Rusty for at least some portion of the game tomorrow - perhaps start with Patty on the left, Hucks on the right and Russell and Smith in the middle. It would be good to see Smith in his preferred position before his loan ends. I also quite like the idea of a 4-3-2-1 formation (it is Christmas, after all):                Evans    Hucks         Smith Pattison    Fozzy    Russell          the defence But perhaps our players are not good enough to cope with a switch from 4-4-2. One thing is clear,though: Smith is way, way better than Croft, who has a decent turn of pace but not much else. Croft''s a good option as a sub when the opposition have tired legs, but as far as I''m concerned he has done nothing to deserve a start.

[quote user="plan b"]its his opinion and he can express it,  [/quote] That should be the new British motto that Gordon Brown wants us to have. In the age of the phone-in and messageboard, all sorts of numpties think their opinion is worth hearing. Fact is that, although opinions are like a***holes (everyone''s got one), they''re not all of the same quality (the opinions that is, I can''t comment on the a***holes). I once sat next to some idiotic teenager who continually yelled at Drury for standing by the right hand post when we were defending corners on the grounds that Drury was a left back and therefore out of position. After the eighth time I told him to shut up and he said "It''s my opinion and I''m entitled to it." Well, not if it''s utter nonsense, sunshine. I''m afraid, James, that you''re just going to have to face up to the fact that a huge number of football fans have absolutely no idea about the game they''re watching, regardless of how many games they''ve seen in their life. Have a look at the player ratings for Charlton if you like, to see the number of people who gave Darel Russell 6 or below when the guy had an utter stormer. My opinion, not a fact, but an opinion shared by virtually every national newspaper journo who watched the game, as well as Chris Lakey. You can say "I thought he was rubbish, and it''s my opinion" all you like. You''re still wrong. James, I hope you have the guts to tell the guy to get behind his team, or shut up. And if he is going to moan, at least do it with a sense of humour. The people round me on Boxing Day (like Mr Chops, I''m very lucky with my season-ticket neighbours) really enjoyed the Doc''s range of passing, especially the inch-perfect pass he pinged at Matty Patty, who was so surprised he missed it completely and let it go into touch, and that one the Doc does every game, the raking crossfield ball six inches above Huckerby''s head and into the Jarrold stand. Cheer them on, laugh at them when they''re crap. You''ll have more fun. on the ball, city.