Barham Blitz

I've been saying it for a while as well, so you've got one at least on your side... Deeper Sara works against the lesser teams or with Josh and Barnes up front. Without them we need his abilities further forward and this season his work rate has improved to offer a bit of the defensive ballast required from the front two but which is lacking in Hwang and Idah and which is absolutely required with our tactical set up.

At the significant risk of complete pedantry. Garfield doesn't actually speak - he just thinks things. Jon uses a speech bubble when he is speaking out loud, Garfield always uses a thought bubble (unless making a conventionally cat-like sound ...)

Already playing Takeover Thread bingo on this new one. I've chalked off Webber Bonuses and someone slagging off Essex. Just waiting for Essex himself to appear and the ensuing arguments for the rest of my card ... But aside from that, distilling the pages of the other one into a new "What is and isn't known" thread is actually pretty handy for those of us with short attention spans and / or a less than profound knowledge of corporate finance and governance, so thanks to the OP.

I suspect negotiations with his agent may prove difficult ... Although it did put me in mind of this classic 'Arry Redknapp yarn which I always thought he had made up (or at least had grown in the telling,) but which turns out did actually happen. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/05/harry-redknapp-played-fan-west-ham

I don't know if this story is going to end in violence or a beautiful love story across the divide ...

A fair summation of the issues - at least without Josh and Barnes being available which worked pretty well from a defensive perspective when they were fit in terms of the press which is integral to the way Wagner wants to play. I suggested exactly this potential issue as part of my reservations regarding Wagner before pre-season on here (and oddly suggested a similar Christmas tree approach) but had to admit to being pleasantly surprised with how well it had worked before the two injuries - without them it just isn't workable as evidenced today. Without the boxing off in front of the opposition centre backs that Josh and Barnes provided we are just way too open - especially with the two full backs high which then exposes Sara's lack of defensive positioning (although again I have to say he has massively improved in that this season) and he and Kenny are just totally outnumbered on the break which exposes the Duffy and Gibson combo as (to quote myself) glacially slow, particularly if they get drawn out as was happening at times against Leicester. I do think that Fassenacht has a bit more about him than a chalk on the boots winger though, so him and Rowe could play the wide attacking roles as more inside forwards / attacking midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 with Idah as the striker, Sara slightly more advanced or at least with greater license than two of Kenny, Forshaw or Gibbs behind. Wagner won't do it as I think he sees Gibbs purely as a #10 but I really don't know why. With the players we have, I just don't see us abandoning wingers, but we do absolutely need more bodies centrally. It might be down to losing Barnes and Sargent, it might be that teams have worked us out, but something needs to change, at least until they are back. I would also worry that we are putting a hell of a load on Stacey at the moment in the current system and without him we would be in real trouble.

Good from Idah there.

Aren't we due a 'beating Leicester could relegate us' post sometime around now ?

I would massively agree with the first paragraph. He is so essential to the way Wagner has us set up to play. Barnes is so much more influential when he has Sarge providing the legs. This is where Idah really needs to understand the requirements of the role tactically.

I'd probably agree with that - I suspect that their pace (and pressing) up front will be a problem and we've not come up against a midfield of that calibre as yet either. That said, they do look shaky at the back, so if we were to nab the first goal things may be a little different if we are able to sit a little deeper and protect Gibson and Duffy against the pace of their forwards. It'll be interesting to see if Wagner keeps the same team or if we strengthen the midfield at all - perhaps push Barnes on and have either Gibbs or Sara behind him with two of Kenny, Forshaw or (if not further forward) Sara coming in a little deeper. I suspect he won't as he'll need to give Idah every chance to come good, but it would be a temptation for me.

5 man press there from Leicester - Southampton all over the shop.

It's often difficult for young strikers who rely on their physicality to make the transition to first team football and takes them longer than for example a Michael Owen type because they are used to being able to dominate age group defenders in a way they can't do against seasoned centre backs without experience of the dark arts and how to use that physicality. Their key differentiator - the thing that makes them a weapon in Parma-speak - is no longer that different. I suspect that we've offered the long contract to him for precisely this reason, to give him a chance to develop, because if the intangibles suddenly click the upside is significant. That said, as I and many others have pointed out, Idah is a classic case of somebody who would have benefited from a long loan somewhere lower to learn his trade and gain that experience. In a way it is a shame that we have chosen to rely on him as a third choice striker as we have done for a number of years now rather than get him some games at a lower level. Similarly being a first (ish) choice striker in a struggling international team probably isn't enormously helpful with all of the attention that entails. I agree that he'll possibly end up eventually having a decent career somewhere - he has many of the raw attributes needed. Just not sure that we can afford to give him the game time that would give him the chance to get himself to the next level as it doesn't look like it is going to happen particularly quickly.

I'm not a massive fan, but I'd be inclined to start Idah, otherwise Wagner is essentially saying that after one below par performance (from the team as a whole as well) he has dropped behind a loan player in the reckoning during his chance to stake a real claim for a start in his actual position. By all means tell him that we want to have a look at Hwang at some point in the game, but give him the start. Otherwise we run the risk of denting his already evidently fragile confidence after a reasonable start which could have repercussions for his usefulness for the rest of the season.

I'd be inclined to agree with this. Aside from the promotion bit - but I guess you mean staying up. In a sense Forest have bought nothing more than potential - he has the physical tools to become a Premiership centre back but needs a whole load more experience playing alongside players that know what they are doing and I can't see him getting that at Forest. It was evident at the end of last season that he is far from the finished article and I'm not sure it was the right move for him for that reason - the Premiership can be an unforgiving place for a young centre back, and if he gets his chance he'll have to do well to take it given their propensity for buying 20 players per window ... That said, we got good money for him - particularly considering where his is in terms of his career progression - and hopefully we already have one or more of the next Omo's already in the building. Conversely, if he can fulfill that potential then Forest have a bargain. Cooper is a decent manager and it is good in a sense to see them investing in a player who isn't just a short term fix. But it's a shame that we couldn't afford to turn down that sort of fee and see him develop here.

What we are playing is not remotely a 4-4-2 in the traditional sense. We have a markedly different shape in both defence and attack depending on how the transition works. Now I'll be the first to admit that I had issues with Wagner's approach before the season started, and still have some if someone plays fast counters with pacy strikers, but to say we are playing 4-4-2 is to fundamentally misunderstand what Wagner is trying to do.

Drove himself there in a horseless carriage. So witchcraft most probably.

I suspect that was more based on Webber trying to drum up some interest and get an auction going than anything else. There was zero chance that we were turning £20m down unless the terms were particularly odd / dependent on unlikely add-ons. Re. The forward situation, I got really keen on Cannon after doing some t'interweb research. There definitely looks to be a player in there. Moore would be an acceptable stopgap but is a way more limited player. Unfortunately I think Cannon is going to prove a bargain for Leicester. A little something of everything in his game.

Is this Webber just taking his own analogies a little too seriously and looking to send Wagner into this season with every player named after a firearm that he can find ? The key question of course is whether @Parma Ham's gone mouldy views him as a potential weapon...

Sky are reporting it now. I had heard he had done well at Preston last season but didn't see much of it and had assumed he'd get a bit of a go at Everton given that they seem desperate for a striker. Has to be said that goals reel from FF above looks highly interesting. Bit of pace, bit of physicality and some cool (and different) finishes. Will make things interesting when Josh is fit again if we do sign him mind as for that price you'd have to assume he'll be viewed as a probable starter.

I didn't see any of the game but he seemed to be assisting a fair proportion of our attempts on goal according to the BBC text updates if that is any indication which does tend to suggest a decent performance.

Ah - the one I saw on the BBC comments was just called 'Jon' - perhaps there were others.

I think that was just some random rather than the BBC per se. But not sure Skipp would suit our current system anyway.

1-5-5 is a pretty attacking formation to be fair ... although if they really don't rate their keeper it might be worth a go...😉

No. I was merely providing some additional dietary facts relating to Pandas ...

You mean something along the lines of a system that could somehow rate the chances created and convert it to a statistic that might suggest the number of goals that we could reasonably expect to score with those chances ? Sounds eminently reasonable and something I'm sure the whole of this board could get behind ...