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Katie Borkins

West Ham win, fans boo players off pitch

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Now I reckon I''ve just about heard it all. Do you reckon today''s football supporters have any idea about the game? How can you boo your own boys off when they''ve just won a match? I reckon our lot are fickle bleeders, but them Hammers fans must be on a different planet.What do you reckon supporters these days expect from a game of football?

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[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]What do you reckon supporters these days expect from a game of football?[/quote]How about a bit of entertainment in exchange for their hard earned money?I think it''s bad enough paying nearly a tenner to watch a movie (especially when they end up being carp), but paying £40-£50 to watch 90 minutes of utter dross is even worse.I don''t blame fans for booing if the football on display is utter $hite...

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]What do you reckon supporters these days expect from a game of football?[/quote]
How about a bit of entertainment in exchange for their hard earned money?

I think it''s bad enough paying nearly a tenner to watch a movie (especially when they end up being carp), but paying £40-£50 to watch 90 minutes of utter dross is even worse.

I don''t blame fans for booing if the football on display is utter $hite...
[/quote]

 

Try reading the reviews. They are normally on the money.

Would you boo City, after winning, because the football isn''t to a high enough quality?

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Them that wotta boo int proper.

Being a fan int like gorn to the pictures, as in your blood. You always wotta win but that int about the bluddy entertainment, at dont matter if the winner come off some blokes arse like that coney an'' if you lose, you go hoom, dornt watch match of the day, kick the cat, be miserable or whatever for a week but you dornt boo the players, or your own team. Theres three thousand or however many of them others that''ll do that for you, and as for booin this lot at the minute, you dornt know your born I can tell you.

You wotta wait til we''re proper shite but youll prolly a stopped gorn by then.

Youll be at the pictures wotchin one of them Therminaters or whatever cos thas entertainin.

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With c.80m additional revenue for being in the premier league for fans to think it is about entertainment just demonstrates how incredibly naive some football fans are.

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[quote user="T"]With c.80m additional revenue for being in the premier league for fans to think it is about entertainment just demonstrates how incredibly naive some football fans are.[/quote]Why should the fans care about that? They aren''t going to see any of that money, not even in the form of reduced ticket prices. Most people watch football to see their team do well and play good football, they don''t experience joy from seeing bigger numbers on the balance sheet every year.

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The fans shouldn''t care about that. This is where the friction between fans and club lies for the bottom half of the football league however.

Sometimes the management of the club, in the need to get results forget that they need to keep the fans happy with a spectacle.

As Danny Baker would say, the fans are the only ones who pay to be there - forget them at your peril.

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[quote user="Dandy Mountfarto"][quote user="T"]With c.80m additional revenue for being in the premier league for fans to think it is about entertainment just demonstrates how incredibly naive some football fans are.[/quote] Why should the fans care about that? They aren''t going to see any of that money, not even in the form of reduced ticket prices. Most people watch football to see their team do well and play good football, they don''t experience joy from seeing bigger numbers on the balance sheet every year.[/quote]
This has been my opinion for a while now.  
These buzz phrases bandied around like, ''good for the club'' and ''good for the country'' where politics are concerned means diddly squit to the man in the street who just wants a little entertaining and have bills to pay.

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I didn''t see the game but I think the other factor is that Hull had a player sent off (like they did against us). Everyone always thinks its going to be easy when the opposition are down to 10 men, and with a well-organised team it often isn''t. Fans find it easier to forgive their team for struggling against elevated opposition but expect it to be easy against lowly opposition, especially when down to 10. Having said that - they also got a lead, through the penalty, so they don''t seem to have done very well!

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I''m just pointing out reality - I''m not saying it is right. SA, Pulis and CH are very effective managers, I''m not saying it is pretty, but that is the real world and what they are paid to do. I support CH because I want to see NCFC in the premier league and the hard facts are CH is one of the most effective managers in the league. I understand that many fans don''t like the style of play but these days managers make hard analytical decisions as far as possible - Snoddy being a case in point rather than stylistic decisions because there is so much money at stake and it is ultimately fans as a result of the money they spend on sky TV that have dictated that. The premier league is often dull and defensive as it is easier to set up a team to defend than to score a goal. The fans have got what they have paid for and until fans change their spending patterns it will not change so it is disingenuous of the fans to complain about a situation they have ultimately caused.

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You guys haven''t been managed by Fat Sam, he is the worst. I''m not sure why you are comparing Hughton to him and Pulis, Hughton trys to get his teams playing to their strengths, he''s not a negative manager.

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Booing used to be something reserved for last resorts.   Now it has become part of the "spoiled brat" culture, where people expect things to be just how they want and if things aren''t how they want right now, they throw their toys around, start wailing and booing about it.    Pathetic. 

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Seems to me that supporting the team used to be an act of loyalty and/or faith, and now it''s more of a conditional arrangement where "fans" turn up every week and moan if they aren''t being entertained. Interestingly, I reckon the ones who boo would describe themselves as loyal supporters.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Booing used to be something reserved for last resorts.   Now it has become part of the "spoiled brat" culture, where people expect things to be just how they want and if things aren''t how they want right now, they throw their toys around, start wailing and booing about it.    Pathetic.[/quote]What''s truly pathetic LDC is that as a country we seem completely willing to allow ourselves to be walked all over instead of making genuine complaints where they are needed.If I go to a restaurant (or even a pub) and the food is terrible, then I''m going to complain to the manager about it and refuse to pay the full amount.If I go to a hotel and the bed was like concrete, the room was too hot and was noisy as well, then I''m going to complain to the manager about it and refuse to pay the full amount.Similarly, if I go to a football match, and the entertainment on display has been very poor and nowhere near the asking price of a match ticket, then why shouldn''t I have the right to complain about it, and why is this seen as being a ''spoiled brat'' by you, rather than a genuine fan expressing distaste for what''s happening on the pitch???

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lake district canary"]Booing used to be something reserved for last resorts.   Now it has become part of the "spoiled brat" culture, where people expect things to be just how they want and if things aren''t how they want right now, they throw their toys around, start wailing and booing about it.    Pathetic.[/quote]What''s truly pathetic LDC is that as a country we seem completely willing to allow ourselves to be walked all over instead of making genuine complaints where they are needed.If I go to a restaurant (or even a pub) and the food is terrible, then I''m going to complain to the manager about it and refuse to pay the full amount.If I go to a hotel and the bed was like concrete, the room was too hot and was noisy as well, then I''m going to complain to the manager about it and refuse to pay the full amount.Similarly, if I go to a football match, and the entertainment on display has been very poor and nowhere near the asking price of a match ticket, then why shouldn''t I have the right to complain about it, and why is this seen as being a ''spoiled brat'' by you, rather than a genuine fan expressing distaste for what''s happening on the pitch???[/quote]

What is really sad about your attitude is that it puts the "customer" as being the important element in all this.  Not the club.  As a club we are fighting in a tough league in the tightest ever season - and we have fans who can''t see beyond "I pay my money and want to be entertained".  That imo is sad and doesn''t relate to football - it relates to the supporter.   I belong to the old fashioned school that says you don''t boo your own team/players - unless they are stuck to the bottom and starting to show  signs of giving up.   Unfortunately for the boo boys, we do quite regularly show signs of doing well, trying to attack and showing spirit - so imo the booers should stfu.

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I dunno Indy, I reckon if you stood in a restaurant and booed when they bought the bill out you might get some funny looks.

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I''ve experienced this type of thing once before, when we were on holiday in Italy we decided to go to the opera. I don''t know anything about opera but was willing to do it for the experience. It was all going well until one lady started singing and some people started to boo her, I had no idea why so when we got back to the hotel I asked one of the staff why & they said it''s because the singer wasn''t up to the standard these people expected and they wanted to show their displeasure.

It''s a interesting parallel as there is only one opera house in the town we went to so the people feel they have to do this as they have no alternative.

If it were a hotel or restaurant they could go somewhere else.

 

 

 

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lake district canary"]Booing used to be something reserved for last resorts.   Now it has become part of the "spoiled brat" culture, where people expect things to be just how they want and if things aren''t how they want right now, they throw their toys around, start wailing and booing about it.    Pathetic.[/quote]What''s truly pathetic LDC is that as a country we seem completely willing to allow ourselves to be walked all over instead of making genuine complaints where they are needed.If I go to a restaurant (or even a pub) and the food is terrible, then I''m going to complain to the manager about it and refuse to pay the full amount.If I go to a hotel and the bed was like concrete, the room was too hot and was noisy as well, then I''m going to complain to the manager about it and refuse to pay the full amount.Similarly, if I go to a football match, and the entertainment on display has been very poor and nowhere near the asking price of a match ticket, then why shouldn''t I have the right to complain about it, and why is this seen as being a ''spoiled brat'' by you, rather than a genuine fan expressing distaste for what''s happening on the pitch???[/quote]As a foreigner living in your beautiful green land, I do not see this at all. I''d say complaining is one thing the people of this country excel at.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]What is really sad about your attitude is that it puts the "customer" as being the important element in all this.  Not the club.[/quote]And how long would the club survive with the paying ''customers''...  [quote]we have fans who can''t see beyond "I pay my money and want to be entertained".[/quote]Damn right, any purchase we make is a cost analysis of value vs price, and if we don''t see value at the price, then a sensible consumer will look elsewhere to spend their finances.Football does NOT exist in a vacuum, and like it or not, it IS an entertainment business these days, and if the entertainment isn''t there, the fans will become more and more vocal (see Stoke for a prime example).[quote]Unfortunately for the boo boys, we do quite regularly show signs of doing well, trying to attack and showing spirit[/quote]Guess you''ve not seen many games in the past 2 seasons then...[quote]so imo the booers should stfu.[/quote]IMO, those willing to put up with shambolic, turgid football week after week but be unwilling to voice their distaste about the situation should do a lot more than just STFU, and should probably GTFO as well...

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[quote user="T"]I''m just pointing out reality - I''m not saying it is right. SA, Pulis and CH are very effective managers, I''m not saying it is pretty, but that is the real world and what they are paid to do. I support CH because I want to see NCFC in the premier league and the hard facts are CH is one of the most effective managers in the league. I understand that many fans don''t like the style of play but these days managers make hard analytical decisions as far as possible - Snoddy being a case in point rather than stylistic decisions because there is so much money at stake and it is ultimately fans as a result of the money they spend on sky TV that have dictated that. The premier league is often dull and defensive as it is easier to set up a team to defend than to score a goal. The fans have got what they have paid for and until fans change their spending patterns it will not change so it is disingenuous of the fans to complain about a situation they have ultimately caused.[/quote]That is a cute argument. But it is a bit of a sod for someone who has never watched football on satellite TV (apart from that time I walked past a bar in Zagora and saw 10 seconds'' action through the doorway), let alone paid for a subscription. So it (whatever "it" is) isn''t my fault and I have the right to complain about it, even though I have not, and don''t want to? Wow.

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Err...LDC you must be on a wind up? The fans/customers ARE the most important element in all of this...tell me how exactly a club can exist without them?! No fans, no club. What a complete kn0b you are.

You are spot on, Indy. Football is an entertainment business now, and you could argue always has been. LDC needs to get real, his antiquated opinions saying fans should not boo is embarrassing. People do go to football to be entertained, I don''t think you have any idea at the financial outlay people part with. For the money people pay, I say let them do and say what they like and you "stfu"

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Are people seriously saying that if they were a football manager on a million to keep a club in the premier league they would be more concerned about style over substance. Sorry but I don''t believe you would do it and to criticise CH for not playing stylish football when you would not do it yourself is hypocritical.

For PC most of the money comes from TV not tickets so it is the TV fans who are ultimately driving football decisions.

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I absolutely agree that people have the right to boo if they feel that it''s the best thing for them to do. But equally I believe the people have the right to point out that booing when your team has won, can be counter-productive and appears really petulant.

Free speech is a two-way street.

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[quote user="alex_ncfc"]Err...LDC you must be on a wind up? The fans/customers ARE the most important element in all of this...tell me how exactly a club can exist without them?! No fans, no club. What a complete kn0b you are.

You are spot on, Indy. Football is an entertainment business now, and you could argue always has been.
LDC needs to get real, his antiquated opinions saying fans should not boo is embarrassing. People do go to football to be entertained, I don''t think you have any idea at the financial outlay people part with. For the money people pay, I say let them do and say what they like and you "stfu"[/quote]There is a key difference in this argument of being a ''customer'' between football and - for example - a supermarket. Brand loyalty.If I was shopping at Tesco''s, and I didn''t like the product and/or service, then you have the option to try Sainsbury''s, or any other supermarket.While you do have the option to do this for a football team, you''d me much less likely to do so. Because your football team is your football team. You have no loyalty to a supermarket. Quite frankly, if you''re the type of person who changes loyalty to football teams purely for ''entertainment'' purposes, then you''re not someone I''d want following ''my team'' anyway.For me, watching ''my team'' is the entertainment. I can watch other games, sure. I might marvel at the football Liverpool is playing at the moment, or the success of Chelsea and Man City. But I don''t belong to those teams. I belong to NCFC, and my entertainment comes from being on the edge of my seat for the entire 90 mins they''re playing. Diamonds or stones.But I guess we''re all different, and people have different demands from their ''entertainment''.

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[quote user="alex_ncfc"]Err...LDC you must be on a wind up? The fans/customers ARE the most important element in all of this...tell me how exactly a club can exist without them?! No fans, no club. What a complete kn0b you are.

You are spot on, Indy. Football is an entertainment business now, and you could argue always has been. LDC needs to get real, his antiquated opinions saying fans should not boo is embarrassing. People do go to football to be entertained, I don''t think you have any idea at the financial outlay people part with. For the money people pay, I say let them do and say what they like and you "stfu"[/quote]

The fans/customers are the most important part of any club - but they should appreciate that the club has a responsibility too - to do things in the way they see fit to provide the best circumstances for success - ie - playing at the highest level - and the club is doing its best to do that, whether you like it or not. 

One thing is for sure and that is booing does not help anybody to do with the quality of the football or the entertainment value - and I don''t pay hundreds of pounds a year to go and watch games all round the country where my own club''s fans are booing our players/manager when they are fighting in a difficult league.  

If booing is how you want to entertain yourselves when things get difficult, go to Ipswich and boo them.  At least you will then be doing something worthwhile.  

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[quote user="Francis The Farmer"]Them that wotta boo int proper.

Being a fan int like gorn to the pictures, as in your blood. You always wotta win but that int about the bluddy entertainment, at dont matter if the winner come off some blokes arse like that coney an'' if you lose, you go hoom, dornt watch match of the day, kick the cat, be miserable or whatever for a week but you dornt boo the players, or your own team. Theres three thousand or however many of them others that''ll do that for you, and as for booin this lot at the minute, you dornt know your born I can tell you.

You wotta wait til we''re proper shite but youll prolly a stopped gorn by then.

Youll be at the pictures wotchin one of them Therminaters or whatever cos thas entertainin.[/quote]

Best thing I''ve read this year - sounds just like my poor old departed Dad...

Cheers for that Francis

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>As a foreigner living in your beautiful green land, I do not see this at all. I''d say complaining is one thing the people of this country excel at.

Ha ha! The two meanings of complaining! I agree aren''t we just great at moaning... the more so because we are annoyed at our own inabilitity actually to do anything about it, so we blame the original target for that as well! (ref. election turnouts, etc.)

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[quote user="T"]Are people seriously saying that if they were a football manager on a million to keep a club in the premier league they would be more concerned about style over substance. Sorry but I don''t believe you would do it and to criticise CH for not playing stylish football when you would not do it yourself is hypocritical.

For PC most of the money comes from TV not tickets so it is the TV fans who are ultimately driving football decisions.[/quote]Er, yes. I know that, and that was rather what I was getting at, in fairly clear English, and was rather my point. You say it is all the fault of fans who pay to watch football on TV. So why should those, such as myself, who don''t watch football on TV, suffer because of those who do?

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