Are we improving as a team? YES!

[vlad666 203]

Who bought those misfiring strikers? Who plays them in an isolated manner. When has hooper ever been a striker that plays as a lone striker? Has ellemander ever looked remotely dangerous, and he was still brought on before hughtons record signing RVW. What message does that send?

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

Our strikers are under performing is the simple answer. Our match performances can be likened to my golf game. I get off the tee well, my approach play is good, I''m hitting greens in regulation, then balls it up when I putt.

Some decisions baffle me, I thought pilkington was good Saturday so why was he dropped to the bench for west ham. And what has becchio done so wrong, hooper can''t score at the moment, neither can the wolf....

Hughton needs to change things a little, be braver with substitutions earlier and for gods sake bring in a coach to work with the strikers on finishing!!!

If we take the plunge and make the change then I think it''s time for Neil Lennon to get a shot at the premier league.

[Guest]

Very astute of you to realise that I like many others have indeed given up. A new manager at this stage of the season would be a massive gamble but one I think the club should take.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

"Goalkeepers are human and can make mistakes"

Thank god for that. Without jussi jaaskalainens gift at carrow road we WOULD be in the relegation zone now. I guess last night was payback for how we robbed west ham in the home game after being bossed off the park in the first half

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Actually, could I ask a different hypothetical question? If Jose mourinho were in charge of our team, managing the exact same players, do you think our results and league position would be the same? If so, then you obvuiously feel that Hughton is getting the most out of the players. If not, then you acknowledge a different manager could be getting more out of the same squad. So which is it?[/quote]

If you are asking me, I would say that any change in manager would need time to get  the best out of the players at his disposal.  If we were to get a new manager it should have been either at our worst, in November, or at the end of the season.   Carping on about changes of manager at this stage is pointless imo.   The last three performances show the team is functioning well up in creating chances and competing well, so Hughton is doing his job. Its up to the strikers to put the ball in the net.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="vlad666"] Has ellemander ever looked remotely dangerous, and he was still brought on before hughtons record signing RVW. What message does that send?[/quote]

Very worrying that he brought on Elmander ahead of RVW.

 

Does it suggest he doesn''t really rate/trust RVW at the moment?

 

And if that''s not the issue, if it''s a more tactical kind of thing what does it say about Hughton''s ambition to win the game by bringing on a "striker" who doesn''t look remotely likely to score a goal?

 

Even the lesser version of Grant Holt that we had last season was still more of a threat and better equipped to play that role than any of the forwards we''ve got at the moment. Which just shows you how badly wrong Hughton has got it.

 

 

[ZLF 274]

Results matter and so I cant see how we are improving.

 

We are now picking a strong team in the strongest formation,  just need the players to fulfill their potential and earn their salaries without making so many mistakes.

[vlad666 203]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="vlad666"] Has ellemander ever looked remotely dangerous, and he was still brought on before hughtons record signing RVW. What message does that send?[/quote]

Very worrying that he brought on Elmander ahead of RVW.

 

Does it suggest he doesn''t really rate/trust RVW at the moment?

GJP, that''s what it intimated to me. That he think''s he currently isn''t up to the job.

 

And if that''s not the issue, if it''s a more tactical kind of thing what does it say about Hughton''s ambition to win the game by bringing on a "striker" who doesn''t look remotely likely to score a goal?

 

Even the lesser version of Grant Holt that we had last season was still more of a threat and better equipped to play that role than any of the forwards we''ve got at the moment. Which just shows you how badly wrong Hughton has got it.

 

 

[/quote]

GJP, that''s what it intimated to me. That he think''s he currently isn''t up to the job.

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="GJP"]

Very worrying that he brought on Elmander ahead of RVW.

 

Does it suggest he doesn''t really rate/trust RVW at the moment?

[/quote]

 

I hav tried to get my head around this as it was a shocking choice,  Elmander needs a partner,  all his career that has been clear.  At the time yest I tweeted that it was probably less lack in confidence in RvWs ability more an assessment of how physical Wet Sham are and RvWs lighweight nature.  Does not make the decision right but was the only sugestion I can come up with.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Predictable responses I suppose,

[/quote]If that''s what you think (and, presumably, thought), then what the hell was the point of starting this thread , Lakey ?You clearly are not going to change your uber positive mantra, no matter how desperately bad things get. It''s even less likely that we, the sceptics, are going to change our  views, given the circumstances, to coincide with ours.So apart from more attention seeking, just what was the point of all this ?

[CJ 0]

The real problem is even Hughton is struggling to see a way out of this mess now, and has tried everything to turn it around but can not and I am afraid will not.

A season is just like a match you will have good spells and bad spells, BUT you have to make good spells work and Hughton has not! Even when we get a result it is always followed by poor result.

The pattern at West Ham and Cardiff was so similar and outcome the same.

Players need to believe again and in my opinion McNally needs to go to Scotland and bring down Neil Lennon this week and say sorry Hughton times up.

Lennon would love to get away from the abuse he gets up there and join a real competitive league as he said flattered by suggestion we wanted him.

I think he would sort this mess up quickly get Hooper firing on all cylinders and keep us up!

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="GJP"]Even the lesser version of Grant Holt that we had last season was still more of a threat and better equipped to play that role than any of the forwards we''ve got at the moment. Which just shows you how badly wrong Hughton has got it. [/quote]Have said this in other threads before but if Holty was still here and he had been given the same match time and chances as either Hooper, RVW or Elmander then he would have scored more than all of them put together. Six miserable PL goals from 4 strikers is probably in breach of the Trades Description Act

[Fraz 2]

we have improved the last few games, the strikers have let us down, Hughton has not improved at all during the games, his decision making as to substitutions and timings has had little or no influence and last nights substitute decisions came to bite him on the back side.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lake district canary"]Predictable responses I suppose, [/quote]If that''s what you think (and, presumably, thought), then what the hell was the point of starting this thread , Lakey ?You clearly are not going to change your uber positive mantra, no matter how desperately bad things get. It''s even less likely that we, the sceptics, are going to change our  views, given the circumstances, to coincide with ours.So apart from more attention seeking, just what was the point of all this ?[/quote]

Err....the point was to give my opinion.  Isn''t that what the board is for?  People may not like my "mantra" as you call it, no more than I like seeing the constant over reactive destructive "mantras" of people on here. 

My opinion  is unchanged because of what I see is happening on the pitch.  Three games where we have dominated, entertained and looked a force to be reckoned with.  No goals, but everything else is in place and improving. It is only a matter of time before the goals start going in - and there is time this season for that to happen.     Things are only desperate if you want them to be.  The more level headed supporters can see that things that the team has progressed recently, particularly over the last three games.  Progress is what we wanted and why would anyone want to change now when the team is finally starting to look stronger? 

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

10 points less than this stage under Lambert ... Progress?

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Are you related to Hughton, Lakey? Maybe the penny will drop eventually that we have a manager who is taking us DOWN!!

[vlad666 203]

It''s plain to see the effect he has on our strikers. Starting with Grant Holt going through to RVW. Yes the players are missing chances but how come any striker he''s "coached" turns into a shadow of their former self?

[alex_ncfc 662]

And people used to call Wiz a wind-up merchant?

LDC, you are without doubt either on a very long winded wind-up, or the most deluded person ever on this message board.

What exactly can''t you grasp from the fact that it doesn''t even matter if "performances" have improved: it''s bad enough that we can''t score goals, but what makes it worse is that we can''t beat the teams around us, and (what makes your argument even more pathetic) also the apologists all said pre-Sunderland, pre-Fulham, pre-Cardiff, pre-West Ham that these are all "must not lose games" - yet we have managed to lose all four, scoring 2 goals in the process.

There''s just simply no argument.

 

[Moosheep 0]

I admire your continued optimism Lakey, I really do. I hope for your (and all of our) sake that is it isn''t misplaced. Yes I too can see improvement in the quality of the football on the pitch, but without the goals this counts for nothing. Playing well does not guarantee survival, we have to score goals. Of course scoring goals doesn''t automatically mean we avoid relegation either but it would give us a damn sight better chance. Personally I think that we are doomed. There are too many games where we should be getting something that we are not.  I hope I am wrong. I''d love to have your optimism, but I just can''t see the strikers starting to knocking them in. They haven''t done it all season, why will it change now? Personally, if I was on the board, I''d be starting to plan for life in the Championship now...and that would start with a change of manager. Its going to happen in the summer anyway, so they may as well do it now to give the new man a few games to get to know the squad and to work out which players he wants to try and keep. And you never know, a new manager might work out how to get the strikers scoring and pull off the great escape.

Moo

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Hughton Out ASAP"]we have a manager who is taking us DOWN!![/quote]

No. We have a manager who is fighting to keep us up.  The team are fighting too and in case you hadn''t noticed, we''re still in the mix with everyone from 10th place downwards.   You just need to watch the games  - the last  three games, excellent chances created and dominating other teams,  a valuable home point against a team we were supposed to get nothing from.   If you can''t see the progress in team play over the last three games then I''m sorry for you, because you must have blinkers on. 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

certain aspects of our performances of late have been good but the only ones that count scoring goals and getting points have not. I would say 95% of the crowd have lost patience and confidence in the management team,though some are more vocal than others. Someone out there must be able to get more out of this group of players and i am sick to the teeth of people saying it is too late and we have to stick with him. The transfer window is shut but we saw last season with Di canio a lost cause over the short term can be turned around in a short period

[Moosheep 0]

[quote user="Hughton Out ASAP"]we have a manager who is taking us DOWN!![/quote][quote user="lake district canary"]No. We have a manager who is fighting to keep us up.  [/quote]The two statements are not mutually exclusive. A manager can fight to keep a team up but ultimately take the team down.Moo

[Tumbleweed 106]

Absolutely YC, we need a short term bounce. 4 wins and a draw or two would see us safe. Right now it is not a gamble as we are sliding down steadily with the "winnable" games almost run out. It''s a bigger gamble to do nothing.

[lake district canary 4,531]

You people seem to want everything.   You complain for months because the team is showing no attacking or creativeness - and then give no credit when the team is attacking and creative.    Eleventh place meant nothing because we were boring to watch.    Now we are not boring to watch and are attacking and creating chances.  

Oh - so its not the performances that matter - its the results - well that was what I was saying last season!   Some of you just are anti-Hughton for the sake of it now.  Unable to recognise improvements, unable to give credit. I criticised Hughton''s substitutions last night, but that does not mean I want him out.  I want him to stay to the end of he season and  carry developing the teamwork that has so obviously improved recently.   I agree results are what matters and we need goals to get those results.  But at least we are starting to look as if we are making opportunities - and we can''t score if we are not making opportunities. 

Hold on to your hats, there is still a long way to go this season and there will be more ups and downs - but carry on performing like we are and the goals will start to come.

[BOO 0]

Have not read the whole of this thread, but for me the OP has some truth. We are now playing the sort of football that I and many of you were crying out for last season, but no goals! If we keep creating chances like last night the goals will inevitably follow!

There is a massive reaction against CH after last nights subs, and I am sure if he is honest with himself he will admit that he got it wrong. The irony of all this is that should the board act by getting rid of him, which I doubt, they will be doing so at a time when he has got the team playing pretty good football: certainly football that will keep us up!

[GJP 79]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"][quote user="GJP"]

Very worrying that he brought on Elmander ahead of RVW.

 

Does it suggest he doesn''t really rate/trust RVW at the moment?

[/quote]

 

I hav tried to get my head around this as it was a shocking choice,  Elmander needs a partner,  all his career that has been clear.  At the time yest I tweeted that it was probably less lack in confidence in RvWs ability more an assessment of how physical Wet Sham are and RvWs lighweight nature.  Does not make the decision right but was the only sugestion I can come up with.

[/quote]

But even looking at it that way he still started with Hooper on his own upfront and he''s not particularly cut out to play that role. He''s a bit harder to shake off the ball than RVW but it still doesn''t really work.

 

West Ham''s strong and physical style would have surely come as no surprise so why didn''t Elmander start if Hughton felt we needed that "presence" upfront?

 

I think it''s hard to look beyond Hughton deciding to protect a point rather than pushing for all 3...

 

...and that he doesn''t really have faith in RVW - because if you were that sure of your record signing striker you''d have him on.

[rowdyman 0]

So pray tell me, where are these wins coming from to keep us up, playing well is nice but unfortunately gaining points gives you status and our prem status is just about down the tubes, we have won 10 in 47, currently 1 in 13 and all of a sudden we are going to muster 15 points in the games we have left, more chance of RVW Scoring a hatrick,

[Brightside 0]

Lakey I really do question your interpretation of very good, especially in terms of our performance! I really cannot figure out your thought process that allows you such blind faith in something that is so obviously broken.

Surely you realise that in order to be "very good" we actually need to achieve some sort of tangible result in games i.e achieve either a draw or a win.

We can play great passing football and defend well but this means absolutely nothing if we achieve 0 points.

We get nothing for simply just improving and playing well. You do realise that? And in order to be "very good" and successful in this league you need to actually do something that warrants it.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Brightside"]Lakey I really do question your interpretation of very good, especially in terms of our performance! I really cannot figure out your thought process that allows you such blind faith in something that is so obviously broken.

Surely you realise that in order to be "very good" we actually need to achieve some sort of tangible result in games i.e achieve either a draw or a win.

We can play great passing football and defend well but this means absolutely nothing if we achieve 0 points.

We get nothing for simply just improving and playing well. You do realise that? And in order to be "very good" and successful in this league you need to actually do something that warrants it.[/quote]

Its not blind faith.  Its what I see with my own eyes.  I see three matches where we performed admirably - two hard fought away games and a home game against the richest club in the world.  We did everything in those games except hit the back of the net.  Passing, control, enterprising attacking moves, clear cut chances.   The team is working well as a unit.  Yes you can argue about tactics and substitutions, but the simple truth is the strikers are not getting the goals - but they are getting the chances.  If we carry on with the spirit and teamwork as they have been over the last three matches, we will get the goals.

[CanaryOne 0]

Afraid you really should be locked up in a padded cell LDC , either that or you are a binner on a very long wind up .