Are we improving as a team? YES!

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="CanaryOne"]Afraid you really should be locked up in a padded cell LDC , either that or you are a binner on a very long wind up .[/quote]

I''ve said nothing on this thread that  doesn''t stand up to scrutiny.  We are not scoring enough goals - obviously - but the rest of the team play is looking a lot stronger.  That on its own is reason to be optimistic. 

[Ray 111]

It appears most of us agree that recently we are playing better football and creating more chances, but they are chances we are not taking.

If a keeper dropped or missed as many crosses as we are missing chances then almost without a doubt he would be replaced and there would be pages of reports about how he has lost his confidence, etc.

We have scored 5 goals in something like the last 12 games and one in our last three, when we have been playing better and creating more goal scoring opportunities.

So, why do we persist with the same strikers?

What do we have to lose by changing the strikers just as we would change a keeper, we have Becchio, who is basically untried and we have Jamar Loza on loan at Leyton Orient, I would suggest we play Loza off Becchio. They will both be wanting to impress, so I cannot imagine the effort would be lacking, therefore it would all be down to their ability to put the chances away and could they do any worse?

We could at least start a game with this pairing and have Hooper & RvW on the bench to come on if it becomes apparent the neither of these two can hit a barn door either, which I suspect will not be the case.

CH is paid big bucks to sort this out and as Albert Einstein said;

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

But to do something different requires big b*lls to go with the big bucks, does he possess a pair?

[Levi Stubbs 0]

[quote user="Ray"]It appears most of us agree that recently we are playing better football and creating more chances, but they are chances we are not taking.

If a keeper dropped or missed as many crosses as we are missing chances then almost without a doubt he would be replaced and there would be pages of reports about how he has lost his confidence, etc.

We have scored 5 goals in something like the last 12 games and one in our last three, when we have been playing better and creating more goal scoring opportunities.

So, why do we persist with the same strikers?

What do we have to lose by changing the strikers just as we would change a keeper, we have Becchio, who is basically untried and we have Jamar Loza on loan at Leyton Orient, I would suggest we play Loza off Becchio. They will both be wanting to impress, so I cannot imagine the effort would be lacking, therefore it would all be down to their ability to put the chances away and could they do any worse?

We could at least start a game with this pairing and have Hooper & RvW on the bench to come on if it becomes apparent the neither of these two can hit a barn door either, which I suspect will not be the case.

CH is paid big bucks to sort this out and as Albert Einstein said;

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

But to do something different requires big b*lls to go with the big bucks, does he possess a pair?[/quote]DOES HE B8LLS! [:)]

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lake district canary"]Predictable responses I suppose, [/quote]If that''s what you think (and, presumably, thought), then what the hell was the point of starting this thread , Lakey ?You clearly are not going to change your uber positive mantra, no matter how desperately bad things get. It''s even less likely that we, the sceptics, are going to change our  views, given the circumstances, to coincide with ours.So apart from more attention seeking, just what was the point of all this ?[/quote]

Err....the point was to give my opinion.  Isn''t that what the board is for?  People may not like my "mantra" as you call it, no more than I like seeing the constant over reactive destructive "mantras" of people on here. 

[/quote]So I was right then. It was all about you attention seeking ...again.There was nothing new about your ''opinion'', so it didn''t tell us anything that we did not know already. And you''ve already admitted that you knew in advance what the responses/reaction would be. ''Predictable'' was the word you used, and very accurate it was, to be fair.The board is indeed about opinions, but debating fresh points. All you do is regurgitate the same old stuff over and over again, and hope for a reaction (though you know what it''ll consist of) . So , I repeat...why bother ? That''s why I''ve stopped initiating Hughton Out threads. Everyone knows what my view is on this matter, so I see little point in airing it for the umpteenth time. But you do not seem to have got the message yet . More is not necessarily better.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Brightside"]Lakey I really do question your interpretation of very good, especially in terms of our performance! I really cannot figure out your thought process that allows you such blind faith in something that is so obviously broken.

Surely you realise that in order to be "very good" we actually need to achieve some sort of tangible result in games i.e achieve either a draw or a win.

We can play great passing football and defend well but this means absolutely nothing if we achieve 0 points.

We get nothing for simply just improving and playing well. You do realise that? And in order to be "very good" and successful in this league you need to actually do something that warrants it.[/quote]

Its not blind faith.  Its what I see with my own eyes.  I see three matches where we performed admirably - two hard fought away games and a home game against the richest club in the world.  We did everything in those games except hit the back of the net.  Passing, control, enterprising attacking moves, clear cut chances.   The team is working well as a unit.  Yes you can argue about tactics and substitutions, but the simple truth is the strikers are not getting the goals - but they are getting the chances.  If we carry on with the spirit and teamwork as they have been over the last three matches, we will get the goals.

[/quote]To be fair we did score against Cardiff but then let it slip as we did again last night without scoring. The point gained against Man City was fully deserved but worries me is that although we have played well in all of the last three games we''ve only got the one point, and that from the least likely source.What worries me is that we''ve failed to get anything from two teams probably poorer than us. How are we likely to fare against better teams even if we continue to play better football than we have for some time?

[Luv The Board. 0]

I can see the improvement but what scares me is that it has taken over55 games to get this far .

But hey another 20-30 games we may start scoring as we''ll,

[Tumbleweed 106]

I don''t think the last 3 games are anything to crow about. We''ve played two relegation rivals and lost to both. And we pathetically celebrate a point at home like it was an FA Cup final win. To me this just shows how far our expectations have sunk. HTC haven''t a clue and they are taking us down.

[Making Plans 936]

I think with LDC it''s gone too far now and he hasn''t got an exit strategy. He''s probably thinking exactly the same as us but it would be too big a climb down to admit it. So rather than own up his only option is to keep posting more & more garbage day after day to try and make us think that he hasn''t changed his mind, even though he has.

[Juggy 0]

"I think with LDC it''s gone too far now and he hasn''t got an exit strategy"

Yep.

He should get some tips from Morty who has masterfully engineered his radical change in position without much fanfare.

Lake District Canary is desperately clinging on to nothing other than hope now, he knows that he can''t dig his way out of the hole so is just digging deeper and deeper, clinging on to hope and "luck" like somebody playing the lottery with their last tenner to pay a big pile of bills.

[BOO 0]

Lol

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]I don''t think the last 3 games are anything to crow about. We''ve played two relegation rivals and lost to both. And we pathetically celebrate a point at home like it was an FA Cup final win. To me this just shows how far our expectations have sunk. HTC haven''t a clue and they are taking us down.[/quote]

While not being anything to crow about, the last three games have shown us the way forward.   We know we can play football and these three games have shown it.   There is some confidence to be gained from that and the only thing remains is for that bit of luck in front of goal to give us those elusive  wins.   Hughton and co are not necessarily taking us down.  As has been pointed out again and again, tenth to 16th place is three points. One win. The margins are very narrow.  We have no alternative but to trust the team to carry on creating chances  - as they have been recently and sooner or later one will go in.    It is tight from tenth downwards - we are in for a roller coaster but it could end up either way - but its going to be like that for 10 other clubs too.  

[Samwam27 527]

[quote user="Le Juge"]"I think with LDC it''s gone too far now and he hasn''t got an exit strategy"

Yep.

He should get some tips from Morty who has masterfully engineered his radical change in position without much fanfare.

Lake District Canary is desperately clinging on to nothing other than hope now, he knows that he can''t dig his way out of the hole so is just digging deeper and deeper, clinging on to hope and "luck" like somebody playing the lottery with their last tenner to pay a big pile of bills.[/quote]Why can''t one have hope. People have moaned all season about dire, negative football. We actually play attacking football for a couple of games, and whilst results have gone against us, the performances have been much better.Optimist or pessimist, we do start every game at 0-0, and have a chance over 90 minutes. Thats not hope. That''s a fact!!!

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Making Plans"]I think with LDC it''s gone too far now and he hasn''t got an exit strategy. He''s probably thinking exactly the same as us but it would be too big a climb down to admit it. So rather than own up his only option is to keep posting more & more garbage day after day to try and make us think that he hasn''t changed his mind, even though he has. [/quote]

I can think and speak for myself thanks.  I may have a more balanced view than some of you, but the "big noises" on here who like to shout down people they don''t agree with by ridicule and insults, are doing nothing for their arguments.  

You cannot argue that we have not improved the overall performance of the team recently and the misses in front of goal are what has cost us in those games.   You can criticise the manager for this you can criticise the players for that but that is the truth of it.  

Cue more ridicule from Juge et al, but no amount of ridicule or rubbishing my views makes them any less valid.   We are improving, stronger for having Yobo and Gutierrez.  Stronger for having Tettey back, will be stronger when Howson comes back.  Stronger and stronger - and its starting to show in performances.  Its now down to the strikers to make it count. 

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

How ridiculous LDC again!!! If the whole squad lost a leg during a game he would come out with some pathetic upbeat crap about prosthetic legs don''t look that bad and we may become better as a team if we just bare with all the squad, let''s not get any new players in as in 18weeks they will be fit again yayyy, so let''s all get behind the team and hooty cos they''re greatttttttt!!! Yet 90% can see were playing gash, have done since he arrived.... "but there was the 10 game unbeaten run!!!) yeah course folks he awesome right? wrong he''s crap, killed the team off, twice as bad as Rodent Seriously as well (even he managed to win all be it occasionally) hoots has an utter looser''s mentality or a drawers at best mentality we *#** him!! He''s crap anyone who can''t see it ldc,morty,nutty (don''t talk about super Delia) nigel, and a few others. One thing to note tho all the ones that want hoots here strangely enough are the ones who know f.a about f.a. They can''t ever have a debate about the subjects it''s always one line posts about crap such as.. you want a pint cos I''m like well ''ard, bless ya, you don''t like him and never did, THIS ones the latest tho..... oooh it''s just another stick to beat him with. Then there''s the "your a worse fan than me rubbish....you never wanted him to succeed so you hate the club, jump up and down screaming I love hoots or "you don''t deserve to support this club", or "Mcnally made this club and you said otherwise your pathetic" well F*CK EM!! I just hope they remember when the new manager arrives what a winning mentality felt like, as it seems they''ve forgotten that we used to win, we used to score 2,3,4,5,6 goals in ONE GAME!!! So sulk all you like b1tches and cry your hearts out when what you''ve been getting told for AGES finally happens RELEGATION!! then I shall await the "it only happened cos all the outters wernt behind the team carp" rant over cheers inners

[Houston Canary 0]

Im not happy about the lack of goals but the games have been far more entertaining than earlier this season and all last year.

What they haven''t been is satisfying, but at least I dont feel like I''ve wasted my time watching them.

[killiecanary 0]

Are you drunk?

Or just 11 years old?

[killiecanary 0]

Sorry - that was for Hughton''s P45!

All that rage really can''t be good for you!

[killiecanary 0]

And to answer your question LDC - sadly No, we are not improving as a team, even though we have better players and performances have picked up.

You need to score to improve, and our goals for record is simply atrocious. For some reason. CH just can''t get them to gel as a team.

[Satoshi Nakamoto 0]

The only measure that really counts is points.Promotion and relegation are not decided on how much you dominated games for, or how well you played, just the number of points (and goal difference as a secondary measure)The performance against Man City, encouraging as it was, brought us one point.  I''d have rather lost to City and beaten West Ham, which would have given us three points.So are we improving?  In terms of points output, no.As I''ve said elsewhere I don''t think Hughton is a bad manager, but I think he is the wrong manager for Norwich, he seems unable to get the best out of this group of players.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="killiecanary"]And to answer your question LDC - sadly No, we are not improving as a team, even though we have better players and performances have picked up.

You need to score to improve, and our goals for record is simply atrocious. For some reason. CH just can''t get them to gel as a team.[/quote]

I don''t understand.  On one hand you are saying we have better players and performances have picked up, then you say CH can''t get them to gel - but they have been gelling recently. The one thing we can all agree on is that the strikers aren''t finding the back of the net.   Now who gets the blame for that is debatable imo.   Ultimately,  its down to the strikers to capitalise on the improvements in team play.   But it goes back to what I said in the op. The team is improving  - we just need the strikers to do their job.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

So what''s your opinion on this thread then Killie??? Or don''t you have one?? BUT manage to have an opinion on me (someone you''ve never met but you don''t like me). Well im heartbroken now Killie, oh also your only ten years old now so boo hoo.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

Oh Excellent Killie, it''s a shame the thread was a side not to having a dig at me. BUT I agree with what you said all 25ish words on the subject. P.S please don''t go into such a deep depth on subjects in the future especially "minor" ones such as the manager not getting the team to perform, the fact we can''t score (tick), the fact we''ve a 50% loss rate under Hughton (6games left this season then) small subject tho. Also taking the better players off to be replaced with a cardboard imitation of a footballer (small subject) cheers tho Killie in future i''ll keep an eye out for all your riveting posts.

[Hughtons P45.2 0]

Course LDC (i''ll play along) it''s the strikers fault so they''re not up to the job BUT 1, we''re they rubbish at all their other clubs then??? And 2, how did them players end up here? Did hughton inherit them off that useless lambert who took us to the conference??

[Moosheep 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Its not blind faith.  Its what I see with my own eyes.  ....(snip).... If we carry on with the spirit and teamwork as they have been over the last three matches, we will get the goals.[/quote]I think your belief that the goals are going to start rolling in is a pretty good example of blind faith as there haven''t been many of them of late to see your own eyes! Moo

[killiecanary 0]

HP45

My point is that your views were put in a manner that I find unnecessarily aggressive and unpleasant. Unless you have keyboard Tourette''s then surely it is possible to add your opinions in a way that adds to the debate without resorting to hectoring, faux-swearing and sarcasm?

In much the same way as I wouldn''t want to sit next to someone like that at CR I don''t really want to converse with them online! Oddly I agree with most of your sentiments - I just don''t see the need for all that rage!

[killiecanary 0]

[quote user="Satoshi Nakamoto"]The only measure that really counts is points.Promotion and relegation are not decided on how much you dominated games for, or how well you played, just the number of points (and goal difference as a secondary measure)The performance against Man City, encouraging as it was, brought us one point.  I''d have rather lost to City and beaten West Ham, which would have given us three points.So are we improving?  In terms of points output, no.As I''ve said elsewhere I don''t think Hughton is a bad

manager, but I think he is the wrong manager for Norwich, he seems unable to get the best out of this group of players.[/quote]

I agree with this. The other point is that there really isn''t much at all between all 10 bottom half clubs in terms of quality of playing staff in my view. Which means that you absolutely have to maximise the return from the players you have. Unfortunately for CH his team just aren''t doing that. I also don''t quite agree it is just the strikers. We have lost crazy goals to cardiff and west ham in the past fortnight. Not great defending / goalkeeping! And we don''t exactly have a midfield who create absolute open goal tap-ins for the strikers either really do we?

I like Hughton and I desperately want it to work out for him - but reluctantly LDC I just don''t think it is.

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]10 points less than this stage under Lambert ... Progress?[/quote]

Absolutely irrelevant statistic!!!!

[Salopian 1]

No, we are not improving. Since Christmas, or since the beginning of January, whichever you like, we are scoring fewer goals and gaining fewer points per game than we were before. That doesn''t sound like success to me.

I agree that recently we have begun to play more attractive passing football, but improving must be reflected in overall performance, and this has not been the case. We have been encouraged by clean sheets kept, with failure of some opposing strikers, notably Man City!

We have to be honest and say that although there are the occasional clean sheets, we are still shooting ourselves in the foot by defensive errors - last match Ruddy and poor positioning by Elmander and Snodgrass led to the two goals by Wet Spam, while before that it was Hooper and Elmander who made poor passes. We berate the strikers, and they have certainly not been good, but the rest of the team are making errors.

We face an uphill struggle in the present circumstances, and with what some regard as strange team selection and substitutions, I have to say that we look doomed.

Other teams in the bottom eight are showing slight signs of improvement currently, but we are not.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

Are we improving? I decided to crunch some numbers without a clue where they would lead. Since we are at the two-thirds point of the season I looked at where we and others stood after the first third in terms of points per game and where teams stand now. Splitting the season up into thirds seems reasonable but it should be stressed does not take into account when managerial changes (if any) happened, freaks of the fixture list, January transfers etc etc etc.So the following league table shows (in terms of points per game) how teams have done in the second third of the season with their PPG figure for the first third in brackets):

11. Crystal Palace 1.58 (0.538).12.Sunderland 1.333 (0.61).13.West Ham 1.15 (1.0).14. Stoke 1.076 (1.0).15. Hull 0.928 (1.16 ).16. Swansea 0.928 (1.25).17. Cardiff  0.923 (1.0).18. Norwich 0.846 (1.076).19. Fulham 0.76 (0.76).20. WBA 0.69 (1.15).

[Worsencroft 0]

In the last few games we have started to create a few more chances but failing to capitalise when we are on top is coming back to haunt us as we are prone to making a defensive howler.

I know we haven''t scored many goals but what I find staggering is the stat in the Ashton article where of the 63 PL subs made this season none have scored or created a goal.

This underlines the point that while CH may set the team out well he cannot influence the game and if anything his changes have had a detrimental impact on the team with Tuesday night being a perfect example of this.

However when we look back at Watford in the Carling Cup game, CH threw on Josh Murphy who had an impact and salvaged the game for us.

The board won''t sack CH now, but I believe he really needs to start throwing caution to the wind and put the pressure on the opposition because we need wins at this stage, especially given our run in.

West Ham were there for the taking but by subbing off our threats he managed to rejuvenate them rather than us!