Are things actually that bad?

Bannana Boy · January 17, 2014

Simple (hopefully!) question.

My view is that things really aren''t that bad. We''re 3 points off 10th, 3 points off the bottom three and the league this year is very, very tight.

I''m of the opinion that with the marquee signings that were made over the summer a lot of fans assumed that we would walk into the top half. Unfortunately, this just isn''t that case.

If we look back to earlier in the season when we played Stoke, Chelsea, Arsenal and Cardiff there were, for my mind, real signs of progress. Yes, we only got four points from those games but no-one could (reasonably) say that we played poorly or weren''t ''attacking''.

I think our problems have come from injuries coupled with over-expectation from the fans.

Those early matches showed what our first team could do. However, take two or three players out of that team and this is where we find ourselves.

We are where we are in the league because, like it or not, we are a small fish in a big pond. Most of our rivals have a great deal more money to spend and have had a longer time to build a squad deep with quality. This should not be mistaken for ''little old Norwich'' syndrome, rather a bit of realism.

As for Hughton - I don''t believe he is a bad manager. In fact, I think he is a pretty modern ,strategically astute, manager who is working with small (relatively, of course) resources. As fans we have witnessed some pretty dire performances this season, but also some pretty good ones. If I had two criticisms they would be he takes too long to make tactical changes (not just substitutions, but altering the shape of the team) and I''m not sure how good a motivator he is (I''m never convinced now that if we go a goal down, that we''ll get something out of the match).

I don''t think he should be sacked - it is too late. If a new manager was to come in, it should have been in Decemeber.

To preempt the trolls (who are a nightmare on this board - seriously, I''m a member of several other forums both related to my profession and other hobbies and I''ve not yet come across people with so little time on their hands as here) I live within 300 yards of the ground and go to every home and away match that finances and family circumstances allow. For those matches I can''t attend in person I either watch on TV, or listen to on the radio. I don''t do streams.

morty · January 17, 2014

Good post[Y]Prepare for the inevitable though.

lowlyfendweller · January 17, 2014

I had a moment earlier when my spirits soared when examined the league table. If we string a little run of results over the next couple of games things will look a lot better. I must admit however this is !ore hope than expectation.

lowlyfendweller · January 17, 2014

Sorry for the poor typing.

The ghost of Michael Theoklitos · January 17, 2014

I agree with you for the most part. I was certainly agreeing with your version of events and our improvement. Until Boxing Day.Since since Boxing Day, we''ve been pretty poor. I''m not 100% for a change of manager, however I wouldn''t necessarily be against it either, providing the right person was brought in. My main argument against change is that I don''t think any of the favorites for the job are a step up from what we have.Seeing as though there was no change this week, we certainly need a response tomorrow. Here''s hoping.

yellowdamien · January 17, 2014

I totally agree with this.

Now I''m waiting with bated breath for you to get slayed for daring to post something so reasoned...

Bill · January 17, 2014

"In fact, I think he is a pretty modern ,strategically astute, manager
who is working with small (relatively, of course) resources"what strategy would that be ?

lake district canary · January 17, 2014

Agree too. Top post.

birchfest · January 17, 2014

I think the trouble is we are at a real cross roads... The rot hasn''t really set in, but there are some real signs of things going wrong and all the while games are slowly passing by with no points or signs of improvement. Tomorrow for me really is a watershed match for me... To stop things get too far, though at the same time 3 points and good positive performance with players coming back.

Haha it''s kinda hard to put into words this situation..

Ted Macdougals afro · January 17, 2014

Well done Level 14 and well done Lake District, Yellow damien & Morty. This is the most sensible and factually accurate post I have ever read on this forum. Maybe you should consider sending it to the match day programme writers so 20 odd thousand other ''supporters'' can read it. Now I''m just waiting for the haters to come in and slag you off for your comments...... oh, and there''s City 1st straight in !!!

Bill · January 17, 2014

the hatersor dearsuddenly those who support the club and believe that the team could do better are haters !dearie dear meperhaps you should stick to putting up something sensible rather than regurgitating vacuous cliches - and maybe tell us about this ''astute strategy''

morty · January 17, 2014

And there you go.....

Bill · January 17, 2014

City supporters thinking this is a forum and posts will get replieswhatever next ?explaining this ''astute strategy'' thing perhaps ?

Bannana Boy · January 17, 2014

I have to agree with The ghost of Michael Theoklitos'' reply above - since Boxing Day something really doesn''t seem right. I think this is a real lack of confidence and every negative result just compounds that feeling amongst the players. This is where, I think, Hughton''s main weakness is to be found. Namely, motivation and building belief.

In reply to City1st, I would say that the manager has a clear understanding of how an opposing team will, in all likelihood, set up and how to counter and exploit that setup. This isn''t always the case - football managers are, I believe, human and can therefore make mistakes - but in general I think Hughton is very good at this.

In this sense the strategy refers to the overall game plan, whilst the tactics are the building blocks of this strategy. Again, I think coming up with new tactics or ''tweaking things'' is another of Hughton''s weaknesses.

Surfbird · January 17, 2014

Absolutely spot on. Great post - I am fully supportive.

Number 9 · January 17, 2014

You are cautious Chris & I claim my £5

Bannana Boy · January 17, 2014

[quote user="Number 9"]You are cautious Chris & I claim my £5[/quote]

Sorry buddy, not this time

Bill · January 17, 2014

I would say he is actually clueless as to how the opposition will set up - and hasn''t quite grasped that they have twigged us. hence the numerous games we are constantly being over run and outplayed.Watch how they will exploit our flawed zonal tactic. How knowing that we don''t mark tight or close down they run at us (Everton - Barry).Try asking yourself why if Hughton has this supposed ability to know in advance what the opposition are likely to do and so counter it he cannot actually counter it when they are doing it ie as you say "''tweaking things''"Fine words, but I''m afraid they don''t stand up to any scrutiny at all.Watch the game tomorrow and you will see the same flawed tactics. We don''t close down, so allowing the opposition to pick their passes, we don''t move or offer options when we have the ball. If the rest of us can see this same repetetive failing tactic then don''t delude yourself that highly paid professionals cannot see this as well.That is why, game after game, we are cruelly exposed and our player are let hamstrung by these inept tactics.

It's Character Forming · January 17, 2014

I''m with Theo on this too. It''s our slump recently that''s worrying me.

Warren Hill · January 17, 2014

[quote user="City1st"]I would say he is actually clueless as to how the opposition will set up - and hasn''t quite grasped that they have twigged us. hence the numerous games we are constantly being over run and outplayed.Watch how they will exploit our flawed zonal tactic. How knowing that we don''t mark tight or close down they run at us (Everton - Barry).Try asking yourself why if Hughton has this supposed ability to know in advance what the opposition are likely to do and so counter it he cannot actually counter it when they are doing it ie as you say "''tweaking things''"Fine words, but I''m afraid they don''t stand up to any scrutiny at all.Watch the game tomorrow and you will see the same flawed tactics. We don''t close down, so allowing the opposition to pick their passes, we don''t move or offer options when we have the ball. If the rest of us can see this same repetetive failing tactic then don''t delude yourself that highly paid professionals cannot see this as well.That is why, game after game, we are cruelly exposed and our player are let hamstrung by these inept tactics.

[/quote]

And yet we still don''t lose EVERY week?!? How bad must these other teams be when we just stand still and let them play round us???

If they can''t beat a set of cones like us, they will surely fail against a team that moves and we''re bound to stay up! See, a positive!!

Bill · January 17, 2014

I see a bigger positivehe will be gone soonthe clouds will liftthe players will playand folk will hold street partiesnot long now

Bannana Boy · January 17, 2014

City1st - in general I''m not a fan of zonal marking. It does, as you say, lead to the opposition having a lot of space. I''m like most fans I think - I like to see our defenders getting in the faces of the opposition, closing down quickly and showing ''desire''.

I''d temper that however by saying that the system does offer some advantages. Mainly, it offers loads of flexibility. When a turnover happens, players can start attacking quickly and should (in theory, of course) know where their comrades are - allowing flowing, attacking moves. This is the style of play the Hughton is trying to build - I think.

I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree in general though. For every ''bad'' strategy you can pick out, I can find a good one. West Brom away counters your Everton away, for example.

Nice to argue though - it''s part of being a fan :)

Having said all this - I still don''t think things are as bad as some would make out. We''re in a slump, and we need three points tomorrow, but we''re in no different a position to ten other teams in the league.

At the risk of derailing the thread, if we were to change manager what do you think of Gary Bowyer?

Number 9 · January 17, 2014

The BAD comes from the logical extension of our recent fotn.

We see the course that has been taken, Hughtons opinions and reaction. Then we look forward extending hughtons logic.

Thats BAD.

He should have gone long while ago.

the bristol nest · January 17, 2014

Good post. the kn0b who describes them as haters deserved the critisism tho.

the bristol nest · January 17, 2014

apols for the mixed tenses

......and Smith must score. · January 17, 2014

[quote user="lake district canary"]Agree too. Top post.

[/quote]Surprise of the day [:D]

......and Smith must score. · January 17, 2014

[quote user="Level 14 Binslayer"]I have to agree with The ghost of Michael Theoklitos'' reply above - since Boxing Day something really doesn''t seem right. I think this is a real lack of confidence and every negative result just compounds that feeling amongst the players. This is where, I think, Hughton''s main weakness is to be found. Namely, motivation and building belief.

In reply to City1st, I would say that the manager has a clear understanding of how an opposing team will, in all likelihood, set up and how to counter and exploit that setup. This isn''t always the case - football managers are, I believe, human and can therefore make mistakes - but in general I think Hughton is very good at this.

In this sense the strategy refers to the overall game plan, whilst the tactics are the building blocks of this strategy. Again, I think coming up with new tactics or ''tweaking things'' is another of Hughton''s weaknesses.[/quote]I take it you mean Boxing Day 2012 ?