Johnson and Tettey to start Tuesday

[pete 371]

Cannot see Hughton playing RVW and Hoops against Newcastle. Fer to be attacking midfield with Pilks and Snoddy on flanks Hooper up top to begin.

[Indy_Bones 444]

Certainly hope not.I''d argue that we need to playing a 4-1-3-2, with Tettey playing defensively, Fer in the more attacking/central role flanked by Redmond on the right and Pilks on the left, with Hooper playing off RVW in a more withdrawn role.I''d also go with this lineup overall:                             RuddyMartin       Bennett       Bassong       Garrido                             TetteyRedmond             Fer                        Pilks                                       Hooper                   RVW

[lake district canary 4,826]

I think we will see the formation Hughton has intended all along.  RVW up front, Hooper slightly behind, Fer and Tettey in midfied  with Pilks on left and Snodgrass on the right.  We have to take it to Newcastle imo, sitting back would be asking for trouble.

[ROBFLECK 134]

In other wors: Don''t get your hopes up!

[Gingerpele 0]

Why can''t you see it?

I can''t see him not starting them together. If RVW doesn''t, Elmander will as Hooper apparently can''t score without him on the pitch.

He did it against Everton away, so why won''t he against Newcastle at home? It''s quite clearly what he wants to play, he wouldn''t have signed Hooper after getting RVW if he didn''t.

[E I E I E I O 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I think we will see the formation Hughton has intended all along.  RVW up front, Hooper slightly behind, Fer and Tettey in midfied  with Pilks on left and Snodgrass on the right.  We have to take it to Newcastle imo, sitting back would be asking for trouble.


[/quote]

This statement contradicts your whole support for our negative manager.

Unbelieveable!

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I think we will see the formation Hughton has intended all along.  RVW up front, Hooper slightly behind, Fer and Tettey in midfied  with Pilks on left and Snodgrass on the right.  We have to take it to Newcastle imo, sitting back would be asking for trouble.[/quote]I fully agree LDC, and although I know it won''t happen I''d far rather see Redmond on the right than Snoddy, as he offers a much more direct threat to opposing defenders, doesn''t slow the play down and look for fouls every 2 seconds and doesn''t lose the ball more than any other player on our books (yes, Snoddy IS that bad in this respect).Have we finally found something we might agree on for a change [;)]

[Rogue Baboon 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I think we will see the formation Hughton has intended all along.  RVW up front, Hooper slightly behind, Fer and Tettey in midfied  with Pilks on left and Snodgrass on the right.  We have to take it to Newcastle imo, sitting back would be asking for trouble.

[/quote] a post by LDC that people agree with? Whatever next?!

 

 Fer and Tettey should give us some steel in the middle. We know Ricky likes the ball in & around the box. We have seen a few times what Hooper can do from outside the box. As much as i love Redmond, Pilks is far better on the left all round. This has to be the way we go!

[GJP 79]

Hard to see him dropping Johnson.

 

I''d be surprised if it wasn''t the team from the Hull game but with Pilks in for Gutierrez.

 

RVW needs a goal and Hooper is now a few games without one too. Neither of them can put that right sitting on the bench.

[lake district canary 4,826]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lake district canary"]I think we will see the formation Hughton has intended all along.  RVW up front, Hooper slightly behind, Fer and Tettey in midfied  with Pilks on left and Snodgrass on the right.  We have to take it to Newcastle imo, sitting back would be asking for trouble.[/quote]I fully agree LDC, and although I know it won''t happen I''d far rather see Redmond on the right than Snoddy, as he offers a much more direct threat to opposing defenders, doesn''t slow the play down and look for fouls every 2 seconds and doesn''t lose the ball more than any other player on our books (yes, Snoddy IS that bad in this respect).Have we finally found something we might agree on for a change [;)][/quote]Yup!  Agree about Redmond too.  [Y]From one of the all time great films - click here

[MancCanary 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Certainly hope not.I''d argue that we need to playing a 4-1-3-2, with Tettey playing defensively, Fer in the more attacking/central role flanked by Redmond on the right and Pilks on the left, with Hooper playing off RVW in a more withdrawn role.I''d also go with this lineup overall:                             RuddyMartin       Bennett       Bassong       Garrido                             TetteyRedmond             Fer                        Pilks                                       Hooper                   RVW[/quote]

This would be good, yes please. Although Olsson for Garrido for me, all day long.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="MancCanary"]Although Olsson for Garrido for me, all day long.[/quote]It''s funny how many people seem to feel that Olsson is much better than Garrido, even when the stats simply don''t support it.Garrido''s passing (long and short), crossing, tackling, interceptions and key passes are all better. He also loses the ball less frequently than Olsson does.Olsson makes slightly more clearances (debatable if this is a bonus or not), gets dribbled past less, fouls less and blocks more shots.In other words, Garrido struggles against very pacy opposition but is generally much more solid overall, plus he offers more from an attacking perspective because his crossing and passing are far superior to Olsson''s to boot.Olsson is simply quick...I personally think that unless we''re up against a side with a genuinely fast winger, then Garrido should get the nod, but that''s just my opinion and I can see why people like Olsson because he looks exciting than Garrido even if the end product isn''t actually as good...

[tom cavendish 0]

I would expect Newcastle to be looking to be very positive to win the match. Therefore, I would have Pilks (left) and Redmond (right) on the wings to press them high up the pitch, and try to hit Newcastle with pace on the break to quickly play the ball in front of our striker/s with space to run into.I would go with Tettey & Fer in central midfield. I would be looking to push Fer forwards for set-pieces. I would expect Newcastle to play quite an open game so I wouldn''t start BJ as he isn''t so good at retaining possession.I would play RvW as far forward and central as possible with Hooper dropping deep as the forward-midfielder given freedom to go left or right in support of the wide players and RvW.                  RVW                Hooper  Pilks Fer Tettey  RedmondOlsson Bassong Bennett Whittaker                  Ruddy

[Alex Moss 2,167]

I''m liking that line up, Indy Bones. Any combination of Snods, Pilks and Redmond would do for me though. Redmonds pace would certainly give them something to think about and would surely make them more careful on the break. At some point, i just feel Hooper and RvW are going to click big, they both have real ability and are only just learning to play together - could tomorrow night be the night? Let''s hope so!

[Indy_Bones 444]

In other words Tom, you''d pick the same side and setup as I already suggested but with Olsson instead of Garrido...Not sure why we needed that much text to explain it, but hey-ho [:D]

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="MancCanary"]Although Olsson for Garrido for me, all day long.[/quote]
It''s funny how many people seem to feel that Olsson is much better than Garrido, even when the stats simply don''t support it.

Garrido''s passing (long and short), crossing, tackling, interceptions and key passes are all better. He also loses the ball less frequently than Olsson does.

Olsson makes slightly more clearances (debatable if this is a bonus or not), gets dribbled past less, fouls less and blocks more shots.

In other words, Garrido struggles against very pacy opposition but is generally much more solid overall, plus he offers more from an attacking perspective because his crossing and passing are far superior to Olsson''s to boot.

Olsson is simply quick...

I personally think that unless we''re up against a side with a genuinely fast winger, then Garrido should get the nod, but that''s just my opinion and I can see why people like Olsson because he looks exciting than Garrido even if the end product isn''t actually as good...
[/quote]

For me this shows the difficulty in trying to compare football players based on their stats (or in other words, the weakness in applying stats to football).  Garrido is much more conservative in possession, and will rarely play an attacking ball from open play which is at all risky.  As a result he poses much less of an attacking threat, but his stats for passing look better.  Olsson is simply better IMO at the key defensive qualities of a fullback (stopping the attacking dribbling past him etc etc), and also generates more of an attacking threat - which involves going forward and playing attacking balls which risk losing possession, so his passing stats look worse.

 

I''d concede Garrido is able to deliver a better dead ball, but in all other respects I''d prefer to have Olsson in the team than Garrido, who is a capable backup but firmly second choice for me.

[The Great Wall Of Tettey 0]

No mention of snodgrass in anybody''s team? He was IMO our best attacking threat against hull and looked near to his best. Redmond has been wasteful in possession.

Pilks & snodgrass are without doubt our strongest wide men When fit. Currently I think Redmond should be used as an impact player and the 2 mentioned above have the best crossing abilities. It''s 1 thing being able to take players on but RvW & hooper, who will both start tomorrow, need good quality balls into feet

[the bristol nest 0]

I agree with most of the above but will CH change a winning side? I expect to see BJ on with Tetty on the bench. Not my choice tho.

[ZLF 335]

Snodgrass was excellent against Hull so I dont see him being dropped.   For me 4-4-2 for me too

 

                      Ruddy

Martin   Bennett  Bassong   Olsson

Snodgrass Tettey  Fer   Pilkington

                 Hooper

                           RvW 

Subs

Bunn,  Whittaker, Garrido,  Johnson, Wes, Redmond, Elmander

 

For me that is just about our strongest team with just Howson to come back to fitness.

[ZLF 335]

On the Olsson Garrido debate I remain very unconvinced by Olsson and my personal preference is Garrido.    Olssons positioning and use of the ball leaves me nervous and I dont think he defends that well.   In particular people point to his attacking threat but his crossing and passing ability is very weak,  no point having pace if being unable to use it. 

 

However I cant really point to a specific large problem so am happy to persevere with Olsson as I cant see CH changing.   Like the whittaker martin debate I dont really think there is too much between them.   

[The Great Wall Of Tettey 0]

Personally I think olsson has been our best summer signing, wierd how people see different games.

Garrido isn''t great atall defensively, he just dives in 1 on 1 because he knows he''s beaten for pace. Olsson has made some great tackles and 2/3 on the line blocks that without doubt would be goals. Loves to get forward and has put in some great crosses.

In terms of the bigger argument in midfield I''d have tettey over Johnson every day of the week. Tettey has a role to play and he does it week in week out. Wins the ball, passes the ball. Nothing crazy, I don''t even think johnson knows what he''s going to do with the ball.

Ruddy

Martin Bennett Bassong Olsson

Snodgrass Tettey Fer Pilks

RvW Hooper

Bunn Wes Redmond Johnson elmander Whittaker Garrido

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Vaughans Stiff Upper Lip"]Garrido isn''t great atall defensively, he just dives in 1 on 1 because he knows he''s beaten for pace. Olsson has made some great tackles and 2/3 on the line blocks that without doubt would be goals. Loves to get forward and has put in some great crosses.[/quote]It genuinely is interesting how differently we all view it, and how the stats show things that we often don''t see in games.Olsson - 11 successful crosses out of 50 = 22% cross accuracyGarrido - 22 successful crosses out of 80 = 27.5% cross accuracy (last season''s stats)That being said, Garrido''s crossing when he did get starts at the beginning of the season was much worse - 2 successful crosses out of 14 = 14% cross accuracy, which may be part of the reason why Olsson took over his spot?I''d also argue that Garrido is simply a better all round passer of the ball (79%/48% SPA/LPA vs Olsson''s 72%/32%), which is not only better for our players when looking to receive a good pass, it helps massively with our possession which has been pretty low in many games.On the defensive front, Garrido makes more tackles and interceptions per game than Olsson (1.7/1.7 vs 1.4/1.2) but gets dribbled past more and blocks less shots (1/0.3 vs 0.4/0.7). This is highly indicative of Garrido''s worse pace but arguably better positioning. This is why I think Garrido is the better choice against opponents without especially pacy wingers, but Olsson is arguably better against players like Walcott etc.Clearly Olsson has more room to develop than Garrido does, and he''s certainly Hughton''s preferred choice for the role at the minute, but like ZLF, I see some good things at times from Olsson, but still think that Garrido probably just has the defensive edge and can provide better passing and crosses when given the opportunity.I fully agree with you on the midfield situation, Tettey is just so much better than Johnson that it''s not even a contest IMHO. In every single key area for the role Tettey is simply better, more tackles, more interceptions, less fouls, gets dribbled past less, is a far better passer of the ball in every single way (short, long, crossing and key passes) and gets dispossessed less! He really is a bit of a hidden gem, and he''s been massively missed for us this season. Given a full season with his ability and form and I think we''ll struggle to hold onto him tbh.As for Snoddy, he clearly can be a strong player for us, but he also brings some significant downsides with him, we play far slower, focus too much passing down his wing, he gives the ball away more than anyone else in the squad, and his crossing and passing accuracy have been average to poor at best for most of the season. I think giving him a 2-3 game break would do him the world of good and also make him realise that he needs to perform week in, week out rather than 1 in every 6-7 games...

[Dubai Mark 0]

On Hooper and RVW, earlier in the season I was adament that we wouldnt see them in the same side very often....but, I think I was wrong and agree now that we probably will and if it happens Tuesday, the first time most of the squad have been available then we will at last see very close to the side the management see as the strongest. I now have everything crossed that its a very decent performance and a win so that we can all live happily together on this board for a few more weeks........OK then..days.......OTBC

As for Snodgrass....why would anyone leave him out when he is now clearly back on form and a real threat??? 

[CANARYKING 707]

You must be bonkers to put Whittaker in for Martin.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Dubai Mark"]As for Snodgrass....why would anyone leave him out when he is now clearly back on form and a real threat??? [/quote]For all the reasons already mentioned in the thread that you seemingly couldn''t be bothered to read...He slows down play, hasn''t been very accurate with his passing or crosses all season, his inclusion prompts us to focus most of our play down his side and he gives the ball away more than any other player in the team.

[Lavanche 0]

I personaly think too that Garrido is better passer and crosser, in midfield area, but to put it simple Olsson covers ground so much better, he can beat players and he cuts inside and most of all he gets back fast when ball is lose.

We are so vulnerable when Garrido is in crossing position.

Also I dont know why Olsson is blamed for poor positioning? He has been in right spots in defence area apart from few games. Few great goal line clearances and covering CB''s.

In my opinion he has been far better than Garrido previous season and I always feel confident on our left wing with him around and I''m saying this and still thinking Garrido is very good left back for our level.

Now with Guti in our lines I would definently prefer Olsson there.

I would prefer 3 man midfield with Pilkington and Redmond starting as wingers and RvW in as a striker, but I''m very doubtful too see such formation, so my formation probably would be, if Tettey isn''t fully fit.

----------RvW-------------------

-----------------Hooper--------

Guti-Bradders-Fer-Snoddy

Olsson-Bass-Bennett-Martin

But If Guti''s loan deal doesn''t allow him to play against Newcastle, Pilkington to start.

But if I wouldn''t know Hughton and could pick the line up I would go for.

Pilkington - RvW - Redmond

-------Guti -----------Fer-------

-------------Tettey---------------

Olsson-Bass-Bennett-Martin

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Ruddy

Martin Bennett Bassong Ollson

Jonas Tettey

Pilkington Hoolahan Redmond

Hooper

[splutcho 196]

Good luck starting Jonas tomorrow. Maybe he can get a hair cut and pretend to be Johnson?

[Lavanche 0]

splutcho: Is it certain his loan doesn''t allow him to play? I tried to find it when we signed him, but couldn''t find anything about it and now I''m too lazy to google ^^

[splutcho 196]

I''m pretty sure that''s par for the course for loans, can''t play against your parent club. Even if your parent club are okay with it.