I was going to give up but

[LostTheFaith 0]

Decided to persevere.

I am not in to name calling. Not in to turning a drama into a crisis. Not into expecting my beloved football team to suddenly compete with the big boys.

I am not dissapointed with all that has gone on this season on and off the pitch. Our financial position is secure but we do have one of the weakest and cheapest squads in the league.

We are competing in a group of ten clubs that some should be doing better than us and others I would like to think are not as good as us. We are in the mix with those teams on our level and I am confident we will stay up. This does not mean I am blind to the fact we can go down but I am a glass half full guy.

There is a vocal minority here and in the stands who use any reason to bash Hoots. Yes, we all think we can do better but for what it is worth I do not think anybody would. None of our players would get in to a top ten team. Most of our players are championship level at best.

So are we under performing ? I think not. The simple fact is that our bubble has burst and we are at a level that takes many years to improve on unless we have a sugar daddy come along. That ain''t gonna happen.

It does sadden me the negative effect that having a divided support has in the stands and on how our players perform. Having high expectations is fine but there must be some realism to them. We may have the best squad we have had for many a year but it is no better than most in the bottom eleven.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

[quote user="KeepTheFaith"]Decided to persevere. I am not in to name calling. Not in to turning a drama into a crisis. Not into expecting my beloved football team to suddenly compete with the big boys. I am not dissapointed with all that has gone on this season on and off the pitch. Our financial position is secure but we do have one of the weakest and cheapest squads in the league. We are competing in a group of ten clubs that some should be doing better than us and others I would like to think are not as good as us. We are in the mix with those teams on our level and I am confident we will stay up. This does not mean I am blind to the fact we can go down but I am a glass half full guy. There is a vocal minority here and in the stands who use any reason to bash Hoots. Yes, we all think we can do better but for what it is worth I do not think anybody would. None of our players would get in to a top ten team. Most of our players are championship level at best. So are we under performing ? I think not. The simple fact is that our bubble has burst and we are at a level that takes many years to improve on unless we have a sugar daddy come along. That ain''t gonna happen. It does sadden me the negative effect that having a divided support has in the stands and on how our players perform. Having high expectations is fine but there must be some realism to them. We may have the best squad we have had for many a year but it is no better than most in the bottom eleven.[/quote]

 

That is what saddens me. The managers failings are giving some supporters the opinion that are players are not up to it, which couldn''t be further from the truth. Losing faith in the players is far more dangerous than losing faith in the manager.

 

[LostTheFaith 0]

Mr Brown.........

It''s far to easy to blame the manager for everything. Blaming the players is blaming our hero''s . But I am blaming nobody.

We are where we are because the sum of what we are is not good enough to compete with the likes of Southampton and Everton. We are equal to those around use, that''s the ten clubs at the bottom, and our standing in the table shows we are competing.

To blame the manager for everything is naive and for to simplistic.

[Darth Catbeard The Old 0]

You do make some good points until you try to justify them with the absolute BS that we have a team of Championship players and are supposed to be a bottom six club and we should be happy to be here. You use finances to back them up but that''s such a narrow minded, rubbish way to asses the quality of a squad. Everyone else prefers to judge a player and team by how good a player they are or how good the team is as a whole not by how much they''re paid or their transfer fee.

Credit to the club and Hughton for signing good players at such good value, but they are good players, too good to look this awful every game. They are being stifled by the managers inept tactics and our results to far with the exception of a few games have been in spite of them not because of.

The majority want him gone, on here, in the ground, in pubs, everywhere. We wanted him gone a while ago, we saw the obvious problems and looked past just staring at the the league position, saw problems down the road and have been proved right and people now feel deflated and like it''s too late to save us because at this stage it probably is too late to change a manager.

I agree we need to be positive and get behind the team and manager now, but you can''t blame people for feeling and acting like they do and going on at people on here won''t help anything.

[LostTheFaith 0]

We will have to agree to disagree on the quality of our squad but excusing the players for not turning up and performing due to so called inept tactics is again the easy way out and far to simplistic.

To many times this year I have sat at Carrow Road and watched while our players cannot do the simple stuff properly. This has nothing to do with tactics. If a player cannot pick out and complete a simple pass then it''s the players fault. These players are not stifled by tactics they are showing there''s limitations . There are times when they area great but the inconsistency of our players is our major downfall. You have to pay a lot for consistency .

We are not going to agree but while this divide is here and on the terraces it can only harm the cause.

[Indy_Bones 444]

I just want to pick up on this ''championship players'' point (which I don''t really agree with), and ask - why is it that Lambert managed to get ''championship'' players to look pretty damn good most games yet Hughton can''t do the same?I don''t think anyone would argue that we''ve got a worse squad now than we had then, and although most of the competition has also improved their squads, we''ve seen a drop in performances (if not overall points) despite these improvments.I don''t want to make this about Lambert because he had his own flaws, but at least he got 100% out of the players we had (regardless of whether or not they were actually premiership standard players) and played football which was good to watch with some genuinely exciting games and results, whereas Hughton has done the complete opposite, and given us horrible football to watch whilst seemingly sapping the confidence of not only existing players - but new signings as well!This is the reason why there''s so many fans getting on the manager''s back, we''ve seen a horrific change at our club since his appointment, which at best promises Stoke levels of football and mediocrity, and at worst offers genuine threat of relegation (as well as losing all the players we''ve spent so long working towards).Holt, Hoolahan, Fox, Ruddy, Martin and others ALL looked good under Lambert, shame that Hughton can''t do the same...

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

I think most of our players are now better than Champ standard but many are still lower-premiership standard.

 

You''ve just got to look at the fact that people like Basso and Turner were not able to get regular football at their previous teams in the Prem before they came to us.  They are better than Champ standard, but are still at the lower end of the quality of people in the Prem.

 

IMO our current league position of 15th is about right as a reflection of the quality of our squad today.  I think we over-performed to a high degree under Lambert and also last year under Hughton to a lesser extent (because the squad was stronger).  Now I think we are about at the level that you would expect from our squad.

[Cantiaci Canary 610]

Most of our starting 11 are comfortably prem class and play in international jerseys some weekends.

A decent manager with Ruddy, Bassong, Turner, Redmond, Fer, Howson, Tettey, Snodgrass, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Hooper, Elmander and RVW would have this club tucked just behind Southampton in the table week in week out.

We are not a top ten team but we should be permanently leading the pack that follows (at least 30 points now ... We were on 32 points at this stage under Lambert).

[Darth Catbeard The Old 0]

I think the players end up looking limited individually most of the time because they''re always being asked to do too much. The rigid formation means there''s never an easy pass on, our strikers thrive on quick breaks and through balls but we build very slowly and more often than not attack through impotent outswinging crosses.

Also to be honest I think a lot of the players are also playing below themselves through their own fault but I''d put that down to a massive lack in confidence and belief in themselves. These are good players who are told game by game that the focus is to counter and stifle the opposition, we never play to our strengths it''s always about stopping the opposite team play and I bet a good portion of the team are utterly fed up and have just lost interest now.

I believe Hughton is a bang average manager with a philosophy that is completely wrong for this club and his team is stuck in a rut they will never get out of. The fans have had enough, we can''t replace the whole team so the manager should go and really should have gone a while ago.

[LostTheFaith 0]

Indy,

So many things I could say but I will try to keep it short.

Staying in this league is all that maters. Hoots managed it with something in hand last year and looks like he will manage it this year but maybe not so comfortable for the weak of bladder. Based on where we are now, a club in translation , if we can stay in the league we may be able to slowly raise the standard of our squad.

Hoots only goal is to keep us up. He is doing so with a squad of players of which none would get into a top 8 side. We have a few reasonable players but most would not look out of place or stand out in the Championship. Until we have season after season of PL money we cannot risk the gun ho of the past to keep us up. I admit the football is sometimes appalling but I blame the collective inabilities of the squad, coaches and manager not just the one man.

Then again I have nothing to blame them for because we are where I expected us to be. Call it what you will but being realistic means I sleep well, enjoy the good performances and celebrate every goal like it was a FA cup winner!

[Dubai Mark 0]

I have to disagree with the few that most of our players are Championship standard, that''s an insult to the majority of the squad. Whilst not of the level of say the top 6 or so clubs, the majority are certainly of the level for the EPL and like many other squads of similar, less or more ability are struggling for consistency in a tough league. Sure we should be a few points better off, but the line between where we are now and those few points is tiny as we all know.......dont we?    

[nutty nigel 7,902]

There''s 14 games to go. We have 24 points. 10th have 27 points. Bottom have 19 points. How this season can be over for so many people is beyond me. Let''s see how high we can go rather than point to our players being sub-standard.

 

 

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Because our season effectively finishes 5 games earlier than our rivals, 4 if you think we''ll get anything at the Cottage meaning we need to be clear of the pack before we get there.

We''re not.

In fact we''re getting closer to the bottom.

Not sure how people still aren''t grasping the severity of our current situation.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

No your season does Brownie. Not our season. You have already accepted relegation and have even started to accept what you believe will happen next season in the Champs. So why are you bothered anyway?

 

Those last 5 games - if we get nothing I''ll put an extra tenner into Rays Funds. If we get something then you pay in a tenner and take part next season. If you''re that sure what do you have to lose....

 

 

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Lol! Vintage Nutty!

Glad you''re keeping up with what I think.

Of course as usual you''ve completely misinterpreted someone else''s post. Accepting we are deep in the brown stuff is not the same as accepting relegation.

And just where have I said what I believe will happen next year in the Championship? Unless of course you''d like to try and twist a reply to another posters post about us being unlikely to hang on to Howson should the worst happen.

So Nutty, answer me a question without merely asking a different one; which of our final 5 fixtures do you see us picking up points in?

[Bill 1,788]

now why not tell us who you were before mr Keep The Failure  ?my money is on Joanna Grey(he also used to sleight the club in the same underhand way)

[!M.u.s.t.a.r.d_M.a.t.t.e.r.s! 0]

[quote user="KeepTheFaith"]Decided to persevere.

I am not in to name calling. Not in to turning a drama into a crisis. Not into expecting my beloved football team to suddenly compete with the big boys.

I am not dissapointed with all that has gone on this season on and off the pitch. Our financial position is secure but we do have one of the weakest and cheapest squads in the league.

We are competing in a group of ten clubs that some should be doing better than us and others I would like to think are not as good as us. We are in the mix with those teams on our level and I am confident we will stay up. This does not mean I am blind to the fact we can go down but I am a glass half full guy.

There is a vocal minority here and in the stands who use any reason to bash Hoots. Yes, we all think we can do better but for what it is worth I do not think anybody would. None of our players would get in to a top ten team. Most of our players are championship level at best.

So are we under performing ? I think not. The simple fact is that our bubble has burst and we are at a level that takes many years to improve on unless we have a sugar daddy come along. That ain''t gonna happen.

It does sadden me the negative effect that having a divided support has in the stands and on how our players perform. Having high expectations is fine but there must be some realism to them. We may have the best squad we have had for many a year but it is no better than most in the bottom eleven.[/quote]Well done for persevering. I read and agree with most of your posts. There are some very good posters on here who put forward rational arguments on both sides of the divide. I ignore the wind-up merchants, trolls etc. with their multiple user names - unless they have a sense of humour. Occasionally, I get a little agitated by the constant and repetitious tripe and twisted logic but it is not a mensa gathering - thankfully.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Lol! Vintage Nutty!

Glad you''re keeping up with what I think.

Of course as usual you''ve completely misinterpreted someone else''s post. Accepting we are deep in the brown stuff is not the same as accepting relegation.

And just where have I said what I believe will happen next year in the Championship? Unless of course you''d like to try and twist a reply to another posters post about us being unlikely to hang on to Howson should the worst happen.

So Nutty, answer me a question without merely asking a different one; which of our final 5 fixtures do you see us picking up points in?[/quote]

 

I have no idea which games we will pick up points in. If I did I''d make a fortune. But we''ve never lost 5 games on the trot under Hughton and I don''t think we''ll lose those 5. But the pepsi challenge is there. If you''re sure then you have nothing to lose. And if your unthinkable happens and we don''t lose them all you will have loads of fun throughout next season and be a part of a great community of people. Win/win surely.

 

 

[Wiz 0]

[quote user="KeepTheFaith"]Decided to persevere. I am not in to name calling. Not in to turning a drama into a crisis. Not into expecting my beloved football team to suddenly compete with the big boys. I am not dissapointed with all that has gone on this season on and off the pitch. Our financial position is secure but we do have one of the weakest and cheapest squads in the league. We are competing in a group of ten clubs that some should be doing better than us and others I would like to think are not as good as us. We are in the mix with those teams on our level and I am confident we will stay up. This does not mean I am blind to the fact we can go down but I am a glass half full guy. There is a vocal minority here and in the stands who use any reason to bash Hoots. Yes, we all think we can do better but for what it is worth I do not think anybody would. None of our players would get in to a top ten team. Most of our players are championship level at best. So are we under performing ? I think not. The simple fact is that our bubble has burst and we are at a level that takes many years to improve on unless we have a sugar daddy come along. That ain''t gonna happen. It does sadden me the negative effect that having a divided support has in the stands and on how our players perform. Having high expectations is fine but there must be some realism to them. We may have the best squad we have had for many a year but it is no better than most in the bottom eleven.[/quote]

 

Club employee alert.[^o)]

[BOO 0]

I love the way people have completely written off the last five games as absolutely no points. Get some bloody back bone man! Do you really just expect us to just to over and lie down for those games if we are desperate for points? Give the players a bit more credit than that!

[lake district canary 4,830]

[quote user="Vanwink"]I love the way people have completely written off the last five games as absolutely no points. Get some bloody back bone man! Do you really just expect us to just to over and lie down for those games if we are desperate for points? Give the players a bit more credit than that![/quote]Agreed.  The clubs we play in the last four or five games are all probably going to be under pressure themselves.  Nothing is certain in football.

[hogesar 10,763]

Bloody hell OP.

If you''re not disappointed with this season so far then you can never blame the club for failing to be ambitious as yours is much, much less than theres.

Players and manager alike have admitted to being disappointed. But none more so than the fans. The fact you''re not disappointed - with our overall performances - our results - etc etc....tells me everything.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

I don''t expect them to roll over and die no, but whilst I don''t consider them to be Championship standard like the OP and several others, I don''t expect them to take points from the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool who are involved in a title fight.

I don''t expect us to get anything on Saturday either, if you think that means I lack backbone then fine, that''s you''re perogative, personally I think I''m just being realistic.

[BOO 0]

West Brom got a point against Liverpool! it happens Brownstone and these things will happen again. That''s part of the game we love!

[Mr Brownstone 0]

It could happen yes, but I don''t EXPECT it to and I don''t certainly don''t want us to need to.

I doubt Hughton or McNally''s opinion on that is vastly different to mine truth be told either.

[BOO 0]

I am sure Hughton, McNally and the rest of us don''t want us to be in a position where we go into the last five games needing points to stay up. Who would apart from a scummer. But, if we do then don''t assume that we won''t get some! Thats all I''m saying, it looks like waving a white flag before you start,

[nutty nigel 7,902]

What about ther challenge Brownie?

 

In the meantime...

 

In September a City fan and poster on here sent me the money for you posters to have a free bet on the Norwich game each week. There''s no catch. The anonymous donator sent the money, you posters choose the bet, I place it and the winnings go to the Community Sports Foundation. Now I''m hoping Foggy looks after the Man Citeh game but how would you like to do the Spurs game. Posters will make suggestions and you can go with any of theirs or what you alone think. How about it?

 

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="Vanwink"]West Brom got a point against Liverpool! it happens Brownstone and these things will happen again. That''s part of the game we love![/quote]

But surely clubs that change manager like WBA have show no improvement ?  [;)]

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Vanwink"]West Brom got a point against Liverpool! it happens Brownstone and these things will happen again. That''s part of the game we love![/quote]

But surely clubs that change manager like WBA have show no improvement ?  [;)]

[/quote]

 

You can add Swanselona to your list now. That just leaves Hoots, Allardyce, Bruce, Hughesand Lambert? Only 3 of them can go down though...

 

 

[Crafty Canary 547]

a straight answer to a straight question? You''ll be lucky.