Is Hughton just hanging in for the compensation

[Waveney Canary 0]

He must realise by now that he is a dead man walking. If he had self respect he would walk away but I suspect he will hang in to get the rest of his contract paid up.

Hughton out now

[Nicko 0]

Why do you hate him so much? It''s pathetic really. A ''dead man walking''? He''s lost 2 games ffs and you''re talking about ''self respect''. Dear oh dear.

[jedi 0]

Nicko I''m not a Hughton hater but I believe it''s gone beyond this seasons losses it''s the manner of the defeats and last season after Christmas was some of the worst football I''ve seen, nothing has changed. I hate turning up on match day and feeling depressed on what your about to witness for me it''s not good enough.

[Nicko 0]

Perhaps it may be time for him to leave. But he shouldn''t really be spoken about like that. People act like he''s the worst manager we''ve had! We all know that certainly isn''t true.

[*** 0]

[quote user="Nicko"]Why do you hate him so much? It''s pathetic really. A ''dead man walking''? He''s lost 2 games ffs and you''re talking about ''self respect''. Dear oh dear.[/quote]

 

5 wins in 26............drive the dead man walking sod out!

[Nicko 0]

We finished 11th last year.

The end justifies the means.

[*** 0]

[quote user="Nicko"]We finished 11th last year. The end justifies the means.[/quote]

 

With just 3 weeks to go we were relegation candidates, thank God, not Hughton, we then played 2 teams already on holiday.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="Nicko"]We finished 11th last year.

The end justifies the means.[/quote]

Does it though? Could we not have finished higher than 11th had we actually attempted to win a match between January and the end of March?

We finished a very flattering 11th on the basis of our two late wins against teams who did not give a toss. Of course those victories still count for 3 points like any other but (i) we would not win at the Etihad if there was something riding on it and (ii) i don;t believe he would have allowed the players to play how they did in those games were it not for the fact West Brom was "must win" and Man City did not matter.

We will not have a 10 match unbeaten run this season like last season and ultimately that was was saved us. Hughton''s approach brings everything down to fine margins, whether its writing off away games so home games become "must win" very early in the season or the fact we are never more than 1 goal ahead in any game. There is never any breathing space.

I believe that with this squad this season we should be aiming for more then just scraping 40 points but his approach to the game and away games in particular means that is all we will ever be able to do with him at the helm. We have bought a better level of player this summer as the club looks to kick on, we now need to bring in a better level of manager. Hughton has done what we needed him to do which is steady the ship and keep us up in the wake of Lambert''s departure but I honestly believe the time is right for us to be ruthless and move on.

[Juggy 0]

His position is not untenable just yet. 

He will get a bit more time, a few more games at least. And it is possible that he will get the season back on course during those few games. 

I think his position would become a lot closer to ''untenable'' if we get knocked out of the cup tomorrow and then lose to Stoke at the weekend. 

Even then he would likely be given the Arsenal and Chelsea games to see if he can cause an upset. 

I think it would certainly be ''untenable'' if we see three more consecutive league defeats. I think as fans we are making a decision on what we believe will happen over the next few games, rather than what will actually happen over the next few games. 

In a way we are basing our ''Hughton Out'' cries on the belief that we will lose to Stoke, Arsenal and Chelsea. We probably will, but we haven''t yet.

If Hooper had stuck that chance in the net on Saturday I think this talk would have been postponed until Stoke.

[Alby :) 0]

If Hughton''s record of the last few months was a horse, it would have been put down by now.

[Fleck@Millwall 0]

He''s a great guy, comes across well and I think this is really sad. But it will only go one way. What shoots are there? Where''s the hope? Where''s the fans who think we are nearly there? We did all our transfer business early, pre-season was poor, since Xmas has been poor. I agree about fortunes on Saturday but if you cannot be a good manager be a lucky one - Lambert''s ethos meant fortune favoured the brave. We look like a side which is flat, down on our luck and lacking belief which is remarkable given all the pre-season optimism. Sadly its a sign that a reign is coming to an end. Good man Hoots, grateful to him for still being able to watch us on MOTD but the club''s ambition changed in the summer and his had to as well.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

I''m not basing my Hughton out views on what i think will happen in those 3 games although I can''s see us getting much from them on current form.

many of my mates wanted him out in the second half of last season. i have always said i was leaning that was but would give him until the end of September this season to see if there was any improvement in the style of play/mindset. I''ve not really even been looking for an immediate improvement in results as that can take time but really just some evidence that we are evolving as a team and give me some belief that we can have a good season and perhaps not spend the whole season battling relegation.

I don''t see that and have had enough.

[crabbycanary 2]

Isn''t it strange how people conveniently ignore wins, no matter how they come about? The WBA and Man City wins were great and helped us finish 11th. I don''t give a stuff about the ''on holiday'' business. It was what it was. I didn''t hear and Citeh or WBA fans going apoplectic about it at the time.  You win a  game, you get 3 points, dems the rules, end of.

The two wins were (apparently) the only difference between relegation and 11th, so does that not show how tight margins are in this Division, and why can''t that be applied this season? 

If Snoddy''s pen had gone in, and we had gone on to win, we would be talking about a totally different scenario.

Also, just remind ourselves of what Hughton''s remit (from the Board) was last season, yes, that''s right, keep us in the Prem. He achieved that by accumulating enough points.

 

So if Hughton goes, whose fault will it be? The Board''s? Snoddy for missing the penalty? Hughton''s for sticking to the remit?

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]I''m not basing my Hughton out views on what i think will happen in those 3 games although I can''s see us getting much from them on current form.

many of my mates wanted him out in the second half of last season. i have always said i was leaning that was but would give him until the end of September this season to see if there was any improvement in the style of play/mindset. I''ve not really even been looking for an immediate improvement in results as that can take time but really just some evidence that we are evolving as a team and give me some belief that we can have a good season and perhaps not spend the whole season battling relegation.

I don''t see that and have had enough.[/quote]

So you want Hughton gone, but is right now the best time for the club to do that?

I think some of our new signings would feel that it isn''t. And I think a lot of fans would feel that it isn''t. 

I don''t think that he is the man to take us forward, but I do think we need to see what sort of response we get from the players against Stoke, and if it is a good one then see what kind of performance we put in against Chelsea and Arsenal.

The next few games will show whether the players are hurting and want to win for Hughton. If they don''t then they will roll over and let him get sacked.

It will be the players and their response to our last two games which decides his fate, and if he can show that he has the players on his side then he should stay. If they can''t raise their games to save his job, then we have proof that he can''t take us forward.

For me a win at Stoke away and then taking the game to two of the leagues biggest clubs would show me enough to believe that we should stick by Hughton. If we get more of the same then things aren''t going to improve and he has to go.

I don''t have faith in him to turn it around, but he should have the opportunity to do so, because there are no gaurentees that the next man would be able to. 

For me Hughton could still save his job, and that''s the sensible way to do things in my opinion. 

[Tetteys Jig 851]

The New Boy (Le Juge)

His position is not untenable just yet. He will get a bit more time, a few more games at least. And it is possible that he will get the season back on course during those few games. I think his position would become a lot closer to ''untenable'' if we get knocked out of the cup tomorrow and then lose to Stoke at the weekend. Even then he would likely be given the Arsenal and Chelsea games to see if he can cause an upset. I think it would certainly be ''untenable'' if we see three more consecutive league defeats. I think as fans we are making a decision on what we believe will happen over the next few games, rather than what will actually happen over the next few games. In a way we are basing our ''Hughton Out'' cries on the belief that we will lose to Stoke, Arsenal and Chelsea. We probably will, but we haven''t yet. If Hooper had stuck that chance in the net on Saturday I think this talk would have been postponed until Stoke.

I''d agree with that.

[R Mellie 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Nicko"]Why do you hate him so much? It''s pathetic really. A ''dead man walking''? He''s lost 2 games ffs and you''re talking about ''self respect''. Dear oh dear.[/quote]

 

5 wins in 26............drive the dead man walking sod out!

[/quote]

 

Is that really necessary Wiz?  Regardless of any faults (which we all have like it or not), I don''t think so.  Or are you simply posting using inflammatory language to provoke a response?  If the latter then I suppose I''ve committed the schoolboy error of responding......

 

I''d also be interested in your recommendations for driving Hughton out, as presumably you must have some - perhaps petitions, email campaigns, silent / noisy / sit in / placard waving demonstrations?

 

[*** 0]

[quote user="vindo"][quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Nicko"]Why do you hate him so much? It''s pathetic really. A ''dead man walking''? He''s lost 2 games ffs and you''re talking about ''self respect''. Dear oh dear.[/quote]

 

5 wins in 26............drive the dead man walking sod out!

[/quote]

 

Is that really necessary Wiz?  Regardless of any faults (which we all have like it or not), I don''t think so.  Or are you simply posting using inflammatory language to provoke a response?  If the latter then I suppose I''ve committed the schoolboy error of responding......

 

I''d also be interested in your recommendations for driving Hughton out, as presumably you must have some - perhaps petitions, email campaigns, silent / noisy / sit in / placard waving demonstrations?

 

[/quote]

 

It was just my childish rant to Nico''s post Vindo................don''t fret it.....................Hughton out.

[ZLF 335]

CHs prem league record for us in 43 games is 48 points from 11 wins and 17 defeats,  with 44 scored and 64 conceeded.    Within that we are currently on runs of 5 wins in 26 and 1 win in 5.    All of which show a deteriorating trend in terms of performance.

 

A goals scored total of a goal a game does not feel good enough, nor does the current points tally.   That I suspect is why the team look and feel demoralised - whether the manager has lost the whole squad is complete conjecture if judged just on pitch performance.

 

Its a worrying trend but it can take 5-10 games for both the best formation and team to be identified and gel - it was  a shock win in Oct last season that kick started the season- it did not look any more likely last season than this.     As for Stoke they have no one with the pace of Agbonlahor or invention of  Eriksen.   Our squad IS much better this season,  and the criticisms of players like snodgrass and Ricky are frankly infantile.   Snoddy is clearly trying hard but is off form - it happens to all,  but at least he was involved.   Ricky had 3 chances,  a good effort from Martins cross that was just behind him,  a double blocked deflected effort in the second half when 3 player decided they would not own a shot and a bizarre chested effort from a close range cross by redmond that gave him less chance than hoopers lack of anticipation late on.   Snoddy, Hooper and RvW will all improve.  

 

We do have fundamental problems - playing without a ball winner on sat and without a creative player in the middle of the pitch (not landing a Quag or Toivanen type is haunting)  is hurting us as it restricts our options and means we will not getting the most out of either of our marquee strikers.   That can be resolved by reverting to a more traditional 451 than Elmander allows (imo tettey in with either howson or wes off ricky, and balancing our attacking play away from the right wing dominance).   Having spent the money the team needs time to gel.    If performances and results follow over the next 5 games its an improvement.

 

As a group of fans we seem to have become extreme in our over reactions - our performance against Villa was nowhere near as bad as proclaimed,  with a team adopting a more positive attitude, selection and formation  - just as demanded on here.  The subs made both had good arguments for them even if I would not agree 100% (elmander lucky to stay on so long,   Redmond had already vanished in the second half).     Sadly the application by the players lacked quality in delivery.      

 

Its far too soon to sack Hughton.  Chin up everyone

 

[Bill 1,788]

"Nicko I''m not a Hughton hater"

hater ?as much as I believe his tactics and approach are wrong I don''t hate the blokein fact I can''t really say that I have hated any manager .......... or club official, player etcthey are doing their job, maybe not as we would like, but hating themdear me

[*** 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

CHs prem league record for us in 43 games is 48 points from 11 wins and 17 defeats,  with 44 scored and 64 conceeded.    Within that we are currently on runs of 5 wins in 26 and 1 win in 5.    All of which show a deteriorating trend in terms of performance.

 

A goals scored total of a goal a game does not feel good enough, nor does the current points tally.   That I suspect is why the team look and feel demoralised - whether the manager has lost the whole squad is complete conjecture if judged just on pitch performance.

 

Its a worrying trend but it can take 5-10 games for both the best formation and team to be identified and gel - it was  a shock win in Oct last season that kick started the season- it did not look any more likely last season than this.     As for Stoke they have no one with the pace of Agbonlahor or invention of  Eriksen.   Our squad IS much better this season,  and the criticisms of players like snodgrass and Ricky are frankly infantile.   Snoddy is clearly trying hard but is off form - it happens to all,  but at least he was involved.   Ricky had 3 chances,  a good effort from Martins cross that was just behind him,  a double blocked deflected effort in the second half when 3 player decided they would not own a shot and a bizarre chested effort from a close range cross by redmond that gave him less chance than hoopers lack of anticipation late on.   Snoddy, Hooper and RvW will all improve.  

 

We do have fundamental problems - playing without a ball winner on sat and without a creative player in the middle of the pitch (not landing a Quag or Toivanen type is haunting)  is hurting us as it restricts our options and means we will not getting the most out of either of our marquee strikers.   That can be resolved by reverting to a more traditional 451 than Elmander allows (imo tettey in with either howson or wes off ricky, and balancing our attacking play away from the right wing dominance).   Having spent the money the team needs time to gel.    If performances and results follow over the next 5 games its an improvement.

 

As a group of fans we seem to have become extreme in our over reactions - our performance against Villa was nowhere near as bad as proclaimed,  with a team adopting a more positive attitude, selection and formation  - just as demanded on here.  The subs made both had good arguments for them even if I would not agree 100% (elmander lucky to stay on so long,   Redmond had already vanished in the second half).     Sadly the application by the players lacked quality in delivery.      

 

Its far too soon to sack Hughton.  Chin up everyone

 

[/quote]

 

Did you not see our players swearing at each other zipper? the team spirit''s gone!

[Jim Smith 2,610]

New Boy

I take your point which is entirely reasonable. i think my nervousness would be that delaying the decision could see us waste a further month and opportunities to pick up points.

I tend to think now is the right time because I believe that with a positive mentality we can get something at Stoke. i also think that the Chelsea and Arsenal games are not bad ones for a new manager because they will not be expected to get anything from them and can use the games to learn about their new players before some more winnable games to follow.

That said you could conversely argue that bringing a new manager into those games would be a baptism of fire.

I am interested though that you state clearly that you do not think he is the right man to take us forward but think he should be given more of a chance. Is that not a more inconsistent position that saying I do not think he can take us forward so we should get shot now.

I would not be worried about the new signings especially. Possibly the only ones where it may come into play are Bassong and Redmond who clearly have strong links to Hughton but Redmond seems a good lad and surely even Bassong cannot be enjoying having to constantly fight fires every time we play away.

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="City1st"]"Nicko I''m not a Hughton hater"

hater ?as much as I believe his tactics and approach are wrong I don''t hate the blokein fact I can''t really say that I have hated any manager .......... or club official, player etcthey are doing their job, maybe not as we would like, but hating themdear me

[/quote]

Glen Roeder?

[ZLF 335]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

Did you not see our players swearing at each other zipper? the team spirit''s gone!

[/quote]

 

Plenty of ways of viewing that - does it show passion and disappointment when they know they can do better, esp when the crowd is already on their backs?      I want that ahead of the defeated heads down approach from Sunderland for example... 

 

Unless you know one of the player whether team spirit or lack of trust in teh manager has gone is conjecture.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

[quote user="Nicko"]We finished 11th last year. The end justifies the means.[/quote]

 

With just 3 weeks to go we were relegation candidates, thank God, not Hughton, we then played 2 teams already on holiday.

[/quote]Drama queen much? You do realise that if we''d lost those 2 games we were still safe, right? Based on your logic, we should probably thank Hughton, not God (Allah, Batman, whoever it is people choose to worship) for the 38 points and safety we''d already secured. You can thank whoever you like for the other 6.I know things aren''t great right now, and I''m not 100% sure of Hughton anymore. But, are ill thought out rants and name calling really going to help?

[Alby :) 0]

He''s not holding out for the compo.

He''s a nice guy and he''ll continue to do try his utmost to improve our fortunes, but at the end of the day he''s just not up to it.

[Juggy 0]

Zipper, I nodded along in agreement with almost all of that until you said "far too soon". It is a little too soon, but a loss and no goals against Stoke and he is left needing something from the games against Arsenal and Chelsea surely?A couple of goals against Stoke and stealing a point against Chelsea or Arsenal and he may buy himself the Cardiff and Man City, but if we go to Stoke and fail to score then a thrashing against Arsenal and he is surely on very thin ice?We''ve scored 3 goals in 5 games, how does 3 in 8 or sound? Or 4 in 8? He deserves the next few games, Hooper could go and bag a brace against Stoke, Van Wolfswinkel could go and bag an equaliser against a top 4 team, and we might recover some optimism.But he has signed Van Wolfswinkel, Redmond, Hooper, Elmander and Fer, if he can''t get that lot to score goals then he has had his time. They are his signings now, playing his tactics, there really aren''t any excuses if we get 8 games in and aren''t scoring goals. This really is all it comes down to.... you need to score goals to win games, and we still aren''t scoring goals. Do you think we would be as scared right now if we''d lost 3-2 to Villa and with goals from say Redmond and Van Wolfswinkel? We''d probably be adding Hooper to the equation and predicting that we were on course to give somebody a spanking very soon.There were major issues last season and Hughton has to show that he is capable of fixing them with a Premier League transfer budget. He has spent £30m mate, mostly on attempting to fix a problem which many claimed was caused by Grant Holt and Wes Hoolahan being out of the depth.And he''s yet to show that his own big money men are any more capable. The buck stops at Hughton and personally I think he has three more league games to provide some optimism, and that would require at very least a few goals and preferably a point or two.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Jim Smith"] 

I am interested though that you state clearly that you do not think he is the right man to take us forward but think he should be given more of a chance. Is that not a more inconsistent position that saying I do not think he can take us forward so we should get shot now. [/quote]Because I''d like my position to be proved right or wrong over the next few games. A lot of people have said that a few players appear unhappy to play for him. If that is true and he has lost the dressing room then he has to go, there is no recovering from that. But if the players can show otherwise and go and do the business then that will be proved incorrect.We have an expensive team full of talent and if they want to keep playing under Hughton then over the next few games they have to raise their game and show us all that they do. If Hughton can''t get his players to raise their game then he has to go. If he can then fair play, perhaps we can turn this season around. I don''t want him to get too long unless he buys himself time, the fact that we have Arsenal and Chelsea is irrelevant, the players and the manager have got themselves into this position and they are the only people who can get themselves out of it.There would be no better way to answer the critics then to go and get an away win next weekend because that is one of our biggest concerns isn''t it?  If he can go and beat Stoke and spring a surprise against Chelsea or Arsenal (so 4 points out of the next 9) then who am I to argue, that would be decent enough form going into a very winnable game against Cardiff at home, and suddenly things could be looking up.He should get the chance over the next few games to save his job. Let''s put it in his hands, make it his job to lose.

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]

Isn''t it strange how people conveniently ignore wins, no matter how they come about? The WBA and Man City wins were great and helped us finish 11th. I don''t give a stuff about the ''on holiday'' business. It was what it was. I didn''t hear and Citeh or WBA fans going apoplectic about it at the time.  You win a  game, you get 3 points, dems the rules, end of.

The two wins were (apparently) the only difference between relegation and 11th, so does that not show how tight margins are in this Division, and why can''t that be applied this season? 

If Snoddy''s pen had gone in, and we had gone on to win, we would be talking about a totally different scenario.

Also, just remind ourselves of what Hughton''s remit (from the Board) was last season, yes, that''s right, keep us in the Prem. He achieved that by accumulating enough points.

 

So if Hughton goes, whose fault will it be? The Board''s? Snoddy for missing the penalty? Hughton''s for sticking to the remit?

[/quote]

Great post... if the penalty had gone in no one would be moaning today...

I also agree that Hughton has been given a target.. as long as he hits (or exceeds) that target he remains in employment.

Like it or not the Board set the expectation, Attacking football, Entertainment, getting 30 shots off in a match... I doubt any of this really matters to them.. they want top flight football and everyone be damned!

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="crabbycanary"]

Isn''t it strange how people conveniently ignore wins, no matter how they come about? The WBA and Man City wins were great and helped us finish 11th. I don''t give a stuff about the ''on holiday'' business. It was what it was. I didn''t hear and Citeh or WBA fans going apoplectic about it at the time.  You win a  game, you get 3 points, dems the rules, end of.

The two wins were (apparently) the only difference between relegation and 11th, so does that not show how tight margins are in this Division, and why can''t that be applied this season? 

If Snoddy''s pen had gone in, and we had gone on to win, we would be talking about a totally different scenario.

Also, just remind ourselves of what Hughton''s remit (from the Board) was last season, yes, that''s right, keep us in the Prem. He achieved that by accumulating enough points.

 

So if Hughton goes, whose fault will it be? The Board''s? Snoddy for missing the penalty? Hughton''s for sticking to the remit?

[/quote]

Great post... if the penalty had gone in no one would be moaning today...

I also agree that Hughton has been given a target.. as long as he hits (or exceeds) that target he remains in employment.

Like it or not the Board set the expectation, Attacking football, Entertainment, getting 30 shots off in a match... I doubt any of this really matters to them.. they want top flight football and everyone be damned![/quote]If that objective is Premier League survival then 4 points in 5 games is comfortably relegation form. How likely do you think it is that we will have 8 in 8 after the next three games? One point per game could still be relegation form.

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="Jim Smith"] 

I am interested though that you state clearly that you do not think he is the right man to take us forward but think he should be given more of a chance. Is that not a more inconsistent position that saying I do not think he can take us forward so we should get shot now. [/quote]Because I''d like my position to be proved right or wrong over the next few games. A lot of people have said that a few players appear unhappy to play for him.

He should get the chance over the next few games to save his job. Let''s put it in his hands, make it his job to lose.[/quote]

 

There are two international-break gaps in the fixture list coming up.Firstly after the Stoke and Chelea games.Secondly then after the Arsenal, Cardiff, Man City and West Ham games.Such gaps are sometimes used by clubs to change managers.