Apologies Due

[Warren Hill 0]

Were your views wrong?

 

Yes.

 

Simeon Jackson has scored Premier league goals, Chris Martin has played at Premier League level and secured a move to a decent championship side.

The highlight of Cody''s career has been playing a bit part in our promotion from League 1 where he was kept out of the side and comprehensively outscored by Chris Martin. He will never kick a ball at Premier league standard let alone score a goal and for all his endeavour, no matter how much you want the Roy of the Rovers story to come true, he will never be as good as either Jackson or Martin.

 

He might be your brave little soldier but I''m afraid, when all said and done, he''s not very good.

 

 

 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]

Were your views wrong?

 

Yes.

 

Simeon Jackson has scored Premier league goals, Chris Martin has played at Premier League level and secured a move to a decent championship side.

The highlight of Cody''s career has been playing a bit part in our promotion from League 1 where he was kept out of the side and comprehensively outscored by Chris Martin. He will never kick a ball at Premier league standard let alone score a goal and for all his endeavour, no matter how much you want the Roy of the Rovers story to come true, he will never be as good as either Jackson or Martin.

 

He might be your brave little soldier but I''m afraid, when all said and done, he''s not very good.

 [/quote]

Nope.... Cody was never given a real opportunity in Prem or Champs as he was on loan scoring 25+ goals for the Gills. Never given one game in the Prem and none (or thereabouts) in the Champs with Norwich so you can''t compare. Jackson and Martin had loads more opportunities at Champs and Prem but Martin never scored many and failed and Jackson was slightly better for a while. The only thing I would say for sure is that Jackson was far better than Martin.

Many excellent players never kicked a ball in the Prem as they are in poor lower League squads and many awful ones do just by being in a successful squad so that argument holds no water. 

''Comprehensively outscored'' by Martin.... at Paulton..hmm     ...... you''re having a laugh, and what happened at Swindon when he was a regular ?  Let''s see what happens next season !! [:D]

[morty 0]

Seriously, we''re STILL talking about Cody?

Words fail me.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="morty"]Seriously, we''re STILL talking about Cody?

Words fail me.[/quote]Sadly yes, but the debate goes on as some won''t accept that Cody can score goals better than CM.   12 goals for CM  in three years does not bode well.    [:D]

[Warren Hill 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Warren Hill"]

Were your views wrong?

 

Yes.

 

Simeon Jackson has scored Premier league goals, Chris Martin has played at Premier League level and secured a move to a decent championship side.

The highlight of Cody''s career has been playing a bit part in our promotion from League 1 where he was kept out of the side and comprehensively outscored by Chris Martin. He will never kick a ball at Premier league standard let alone score a goal and for all his endeavour, no matter how much you want the Roy of the Rovers story to come true, he will never be as good as either Jackson or Martin.

 

He might be your brave little soldier but I''m afraid, when all said and done, he''s not very good.

 [/quote]

Nope.... Cody was never given a real opportunity in Prem or Champs as he was on loan scoring 25+ goals for the Gills. Never given one game in the Prem and none (or thereabouts) in the Champs with Norwich so you can''t compare. Jackson and Martin had loads more opportunities at Champs and Prem but Martin never scored many and failed and Jackson was slightly better for a while. The only thing I would say for sure is that Jackson was far better than Martin.

Many excellent players never kicked a ball in the Prem as they are in poor lower League squads and many awful ones do just by being in a successful squad so that argument holds no water. 

''Comprehensively outscored'' by Martin.... at Paulton..hmm     ...... you''re having a laugh, and what happened at Swindon when he was a regular ?  Let''s see what happens next season !! [:D]

[/quote]

 

Do you know why Cody never got those opportunities?

 

HE ISN''T/WASN''T/NEVER WILL BE GOOD ENOUGH.

 

I hope that clears things up for you. Or do you think we left him out of the side because he was too good and we wanted to give the other team a chance?

 

To be fair, I don''t think you''ve ever posted anything that I even nearly agree with on any subject so the fact we can''t agree on this isn''t surprising.

 

[Herman 9,817]

Mr Moy.

A. Are you on a colossal wind-up? Or......

B. Add your own suggestion.

[QHcanary 0]

"Sadly yes, but the debate goes on as some won''t accept that Cody can score goals better than CM.   12 goals for CM  in three years does not bode well."

In the words of the immortal Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, what is your major malfunction? Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Your obsession with certain people is bordering on creepy.

Cody has scored at a rate of 1 goal every 6 appearances at league 1 level over the past 2 seasons. 7 in 43 apps.

He''s no good, he''ll never be good, and you''re a mentalist. If he was better than Chris Martin or Jackson he''d have been picked up by a championship club by now, instead of loaned out to league 2.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

Paul,Do you HONESTLY believe we should have kept QD at the expense of SCM, Holty etc?

[TIL 1010 4,779]

[quote user="paul moy"] Lambert''s attacking philosophy of scoring more than conceding saw them through.
[/quote]

Sure did with a minus 22 goal difference.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

CUPSD Of course. It was great.

But we had tried to do the same thing often enough. To hear people on here talk you''d think Hughton actively stopped the players performing.

We played with desire and confidence in the last three games. It was uplifting. I don''t think it was a change of tactics though. It was just the fruititon of a lot of pressure and emotion. Good job too!

[CambridgeCanary 0]

[quote user="Herman "]Mr Moy.

A. Are you on a colossal wind-up? Or......

B. Add your own suggestion.[/quote]

Is B "The living embodiment of the proverb - We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are"?

[Herman 9,817]

I was thinking of something less intelligent and there is no swearing. But I like it. Double thumbs up.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Yellow Wall"] paul moy wrote the following post at 22/05/2013 11:09 AM: .......... We were hamstrung by the manager''s caution and inability to recognise that we had untapped quality in the squad (Howson, E Bennett and Holt in particular) , not by the loss of Ruddy. I would have thought after your assessment of player''s quality in the past you would stay clear of such statements. Holt and Howson are OK but, sorry, E Bennett is not up to the quality we now need. Still a good player, but not a Premiership player. Were you calling for Simeon Jackson to be playing a while back? [/quote]


Gross misrepresentation as usual.

I never rated Jackson or Chris Martin.  My only argument over Cody was that he had better bravery, pace, heading ability and attitude and would score more goals in his career than those two, nobody else. The jury is still out and Cody has been injured far more than those two which probably endorses my view on his bravery.

Were my views on Martin and Jackson wrong ? I think not. 

[/quote]

You really are somethine else, aren''t you?

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="ABC A Basingstoke Canary"]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]

As for ton of money,  if you want to talk net spends... Norwich sit 12th in the spending league. Yes we spent a ton of money.
[/quote]

 

No, lets not talk about NET spends, lets talk about ACTUAL spends - which should give a more accurate figure (especially as neither CH nor NW had any multi million pound players to sell!)

 

Actual Spend - £ 9,548,000.

Only 4 teams spent less:

WBA - £4,400,000 (lowest spend in the PL)

Fulham - £8,800,000

Wigan - £9,270,800 (£277,200 less than we spent)

Reading - £9,521,600 (£26,400 less than we spent)

 

So I would hardly say CH spent "a ton" of money - he spent £5m more than the lowest amount spent, and less than £1m more than the next 3 teams combined!

 

Given the way that our previous manager "dropped us in it" when he left and the circumstances under which CH arrived at this club, I would say that by not only keeping this club in the PL but also improving our position and squad, that he has achieved more than NW.

[/quote]

Net spend is far more important.   Hughton was lucky none of his players were poached in the summer.  Swansea lost their best players and have grown since.  And lets be clear, Hughton has had a budget of at least 16 million this season as the RvW signing has proven.

As for his record compared to NW... Hughton could easily be sacked by Christmas.  He has not achieved anything like what Worthy did.  There is nothing he has achieved which compares to our promotion season and play-off season.  Worthington is a worthy legend at the club for good reason. Hughton could easily surpass this, but not on this season''s performance by any stretch,  He took a side finishing 12th and has taken them to 11th during a dismal season of negative football.
[/quote]

You really do not have a clue. Can you explain how that was down to luck?

[Indy_Bones 441]

What I really want to know is how the hell this thread managed to devolve into yet another Cody Mac debate for a short time???

[Highland Canary 76]

@ Cambridge. My view is that there was, in fact, a change in tactics signalled at the Arsenal game which included both Holt and Kamara in the starting eleven. I would argue that there was the realisation that the much debated ''play for the draw'' was failing. We also began to see our fullbacks getting into the opposition half more frequently. Similarly, Howson began to play in a less constrained way and demonstrated his undoubted talent in a less defensive role. More attacking intent, positivity, and the results have followed.

It was great fun at Citeh on Sunday. Compared to how we set up against Wigan, Stoke, QPR et al it was nothing short of a revelation. I''m hoping that in the strengthening that occurs in the Summer we have learnt that with three points for a win being positive does reap its own rewards.

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Ok Highland. You may well be right. We certainly were more effective at Arsenal.

Your view demolishes the nonsensical Jeff theory that the change came after the Villa game which was what I was disputing.

[Highland Canary 76]

Absolutely Cambridge - the change was post- Arsenal.

[nutty nigel 7,566]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]@ Cambridge. My view is that there was, in fact, a change in tactics signalled at the Arsenal game which included both Holt and Kamara in the starting eleven. I would argue that there was the realisation that the much debated ''play for the draw'' was failing. We also began to see our fullbacks getting into the opposition half more frequently. Similarly, Howson began to play in a less constrained way and demonstrated his undoubted talent in a less defensive role. More attacking intent, positivity, and the results have followed. It was great fun at Citeh on Sunday. Compared to how we set up against Wigan, Stoke, QPR et al it was nothing short of a revelation. I''m hoping that in the strengthening that occurs in the Summer we have learnt that with three points for a win being positive does reap its own rewards.[/quote]

 

44 points from 38 games and 11th place. That doesn''t seem to matter to you Highland. All you seem to care about is that you believe with different tactics we MAY have picked up a couple more points in certain games. Now even if you''re right who''s to say those tactics would have picked up the other 40 odd points in the rest of the games.

 

For a poster who stated we weren''t good enough to win a game until December I would have thought Hughton and his tactics achieved far more than you thought possible in your wildest dreams.

 

 

[Lavanche 0]

Not to mention only thing we played Kamara on left or Holt in pocket was that Pilkington got injured and Bennett + Snoddy couldnt do it on the left wing.

We very rarely changed tactics this season and really I give that person 10 pounds who really can draw me picture and prove without counter arguments how we did play different against Man City in last game than we played against Wigan for example when we lost 1 - 0.

And answer isnt "We were getting forward and letting fullback overlap" as truth is that we have always tried to get forward and in advanced position fullbacks have overlapped wingers if possible whole season and same time we defended as a team under the ball as we defended against Wigan.

Real question is that should we play similary against Wigan than we play against Man City. That is hard to answer, but if you are trying to change your game philosophy from purely counter attaking long ball game to bit modern version where you keep the ball too I probably even myself would try to use same tactics only with little twist against every team until it comes from every players backbone.

[Bill Car 0]

Ended up being a great season undoubtedly.

Apologise for asking questions during the 19 games in a row when we had the worst form the league?? Nope.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Anyone who maintains there was not a change of attitude/approach to the last two games in comparison to the preceding three months is either on a wind-up or talking out of their backside if you ask me. The only thing I would concede on that is I think we were also more positive against Villa even though the result went against us.

Would I have been happy with 11th place and 44 points if you offered it to me before the season - yes.

Having seen how the season panned out am I happy with where we eventually finished - yes.

Do I think we actually were capable of and could have finished higher than that - yes. I think we could and should have got a few more points in that dire 3 month period when we didn''t really try and win any games.

Why did we not - in my view primarily due to our negative approach away from home and in certain games at home in the period between January and May. Yes there were other factors such as Ruddy and Pilks being absent but mainly I think we brought that flirtation with relegation on ourselves.

Has Hughton done a good enough job to take us into next season - yes.

Could he have done a better job - yes.

What needs to improve, tactics and results away from home and especially against the lower half teams. The tactics against the better teams are good. Sort it out against the weaker teams and we could be pushing up the table furtger next season.

[nutty nigel 7,566]

Jim.. serious question.. what was the difference between the way we approached the two Man City games?

 

 

[Herman 9,817]

...and Reading we played rather positively. And the Arsenal game come to think of it.

[crabbycanary 2]

Nutty - wasn''t that the team we scored the most goals against this season?

[TIL 1010 4,779]

[quote user="crabbycanary"]Nutty - wasn''t that the team we scored the most goals against this season?[/quote]

3 in each game but surely they were not ''on the beach'' at Christmas ?[;)]

I mean how on earth did negative boring tactics and crap selection and substitutions manage to score so many against the then reigning Champions ? Yeah they scored 4 but everybody loves the gung ho appraoch,oh no sorry i forgot......only when Lambert is the manager.[:P]

[Jim Smith 2,339]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Jim.. serious question.. what was the difference between the way we approached the two Man City games?

 

 

[/quote]

Nutty

The previous Man City game was in December so before the period I refer to. I have also said I think our tactics against the top teams were good. That said we were aided in that December game by the sending off before which they were threatening to run riot.

A more pertinent question would be what was the difference in how we approached the Man City away game compared to the home games against Fulham and Newcastle and the away games at Wigan, Stoke, QPR, Reading etc etc

[Lavanche 0]

Jim: And what was that? :)

I personaly know the answer (few of them), but negative approach is not one of them.

[nutty nigel 7,566]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Jim.. serious question.. what was the difference between the way we approached the two Man City games?

 

 

[/quote] Nutty The previous Man City game was in December so before the period I refer to. I have also said I think our tactics against the top teams were good. That said we were aided in that December game by the sending off before which they were threatening to run riot. A more pertinent question would be what was the difference in how we approached the Man City away game compared to the home games against Fulham and Newcastle and the away games at Wigan, Stoke, QPR, Reading etc etc[/quote]

 

Jim why do you people continue to find negatives to underplay our achievements. For me Man City were aided in that game by our continued loss of Ruddy as much as we were aided by the sending off. Which was a sending off by the way! I think that you''d enjoy supporting Norwich more if you had a more positive outlook. Your point about that Man City game is far more negative than any tactics Hughton employed this season.

 

 

[crabbycanary 2]

"I think that you''d enjoy supporting Norwich more if you had a more positive outlook"

Blimey Nutty, how many threads could that sentence be utilized in, on here?!