Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
canarycat

Apologies Due

Recommended Posts

To all of those who unfairly critisised and villified our manager, our centre forward, & our attacking midfielder perhaps you now have the decency to admit you were wrong? we have finished 11th in the most competative premier league in the world on very limited resources and the club is now in a fantastic postition to move forward. Have the decency to stand up and apologise for some of the histrionic drivel that hes been posted over the past few weeks on this forum. Get behind your team, support them and enjoy what has been a fantastic success story with more to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good luck with that, you''ve got more chance of us winning the league next year than the people you''re aiming this at admitting they were wrong...and to be fair its a forum, they are entitled to their opinions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly though, it matters little. To continue to whinge and whine is frankly about ignoring facts that are staring them in the face, rather than admit they were hasty in their judgements.

We have beaten some top sides, and finished above sides that are considered a lot bigger than us, the Yoof won the cup, there really are a lot of positives, frankly if they want to continue to dwell on the negatives that says more about their personalities taht their football knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair comment of course everybody is entitled to an opnion but it should be based upon common sense, fairness & fact, which mine is. 11h in the best league in the world. In a results based businees that is what matters. I recall only 2 weeks ago somebody suggestng the manager should be sacked & replaced with the youth team coach, that our centre forward was rubbish and should be sold and the central midfielder whos has scored 2 world class goals in consecutive games was rubbish.Whilst i admit that Lambert did a fantastic job for this club our current manager has exceeded his league finish and earned us several million pounds more, whilst signing one of the mot promising international strikers in Europe for next season. I repeat again some people owe the club, the manager and the some players apologies, if they are man enough to admit it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been very vocal over the last few months with criticism of Hughton. While i stand by what i have said about our style of football this season (which has mainly not forget been to bore the opposition off the park) Hughton has earned the right to build the squad again over the summer and start with a clean slate next season. If however we are still playing for draws 2 months into next season i will again be asking for him to politely leave. The last two games have hopefully shown him what we are capable of when we attack teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My main point on this matter is this. How many of you were at the Colchester game wnen we lost 7-1 at home in our first game in league 1,only a few years ago, as I was? What this club has achieved since is nothing short of a fairy tale. I cannot believe anybody can be negative about what this club, the board, the management, the players and the fantastic supporters have achieved since that day. Those who are negative need to look at themselves and ask why. What did they expect when the ref blew the final whistle on that awful day? I would bet that nobody, including me, would have wagered 1 penny on Norwich being where they are now, having beaten Arsenal, Manchester United and Manchester City this season alone in the process.The only difference between me, the majority of the other loyal supporters and the whingers is that we realise how lucky we are and how important it is to recognise that fact and how important it is that we give credit where it is due and that we continue to support the team that we love and who deserve that support, its a simple as that really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok to play devils advocate1) Anyone stepping in after Lambert would have had hell of a job winning the fans. Another reason why I dont envy the man to fill Fergies boots. Regardless of any sucess its still not "the Messiah"2) Anyone who can hand on thier heart say "They are fully satisfied with Hoots use of substitutions" is lying3) Anyone who can hand on thier heart say "They are fully satisfied with Hoots tactics" is lying4) We went from playing very exciting football to playing defensive, then our team was shackled and lost confidence going forwards. Confidence has been something we have had in bucket loads at Norwich for the last 3 years, seeing the likes of Holty lacking should have scared everyone !

Can people stop trying to jump on the moral high ground, anyone would think that any of the whiners or whingers would be happy if we were relegated. This was not and is not the case.The simple point being that after having such a comfortable position at Xmas we rid the one stop slide to a relegation battle. Based on form we should have gone down, plain and simple.Now, I for one am behind Hoots, next season will be his first proper season as he has had Lamberts squad and a few additions of his own. He can now start moving forwards with his players and his formations.If Man City and WBA show us two things they are theseA) Hoots can set up an attacking formation when he wants and he needs to trust his players moreB) We actually have a good squad of lads so you cant point fingers at anyone, 90% the dead wood is gone now and whats left is quality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not interested in Fergie or manchester united, although he was a great manager and they are a gret club. I support Norwich. I fully agree that we fell away after christmas but the premier league, the best and most competative league in the world by a mile, is a marathon played over 38 games and any team ends up where they deserve to end up. After 38 games we ended up 11th. That for me is the end of the argument. The manager, the board , the players and the fans deserve huge credit for that achievement. The upgrading of the academy, and the the superb success of the youth & under 21 sides are all further causes to be positive about the future. Lets not pre judge next season yet, lets wait and see what happens before we do that. Nobody can argue with the tactics of the current manager, We finsihed 11th in the best league in the world and the future is rosy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nexus:

I''m completely happy with Hughton''s tactics. For me they were lot better and even more exiting than Lamberts as we tried to something else than just kick the ball around.

People need to open their eyes as these two last game were no different in tactical approach than rest of the games.

We were compact, moved slowly to goal scoring positions without losing our formation. This is what Hughton wants from his team and these two games show what can be archieved by it.

I dont like everything in Hughton, but heck I wouldnt change him back to Lamberts hoofball anyday. Hopefuly he trusts a bit more of his sub bench next season and we see a bit more rotation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="canarycat"]To all of those who unfairly critisised and villified our manager, our centre forward, & our attacking midfielder perhaps you now have the decency to admit you were wrong? we have finished 11th in the most competative premier league in the world on very limited resources and the club is now in a fantastic postition to move forward. Have the decency to stand up and apologise for some of the histrionic drivel that hes been posted over the past few weeks on this forum. Get behind your team, support them and enjoy what has been a fantastic success story with more to come.[/quote]

I have to admit that I am one of the many supporters that has questioned our tactics during 2013 so fair play I was wrong & I''m happy to say sorry for those doubts, only time will tell who is ultimately right, not these two great results we''ve just had against sides that were perhaps a little less competitive than they would normally be. That''s not taking anything away from our performances, which were far more positive than anything we have witnesses for several months, here''s hoping that with a few additions to the squad we can push on to the next stage & become established as a middle third premier league team. Happy & exciting summer all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to say I have remained behind the manager, he saw flaws in our team and had to change our style of play. Howson I never doubted but again in this league you need performances throughout the season. Just glad he showed everyone that he can be an attacking midfielder in this league. We will bring in re-inforcements and I suspect johnny will be on the side lines for a bit of the season but he has the potential to grow.

Holty has not played well this season, his goal tally is good for a second season after all the hype. I feel we now know what we will get from holty if he is here next season. We still need a second striker after rvw and holty is not that so then it comes down to wages. Do we want him on big wages on our bench. If an offer comes in I think we take it, his little rally in the goal charts will help with price... But i think the wages will be better used elsewhere as we build a squad for premiership stability over the long term. Having said that the man scored some goals and more importantly goals in wins, villa scored a fair few but almost went down. Holty will never be forgotten but I do believe leaving on a high is the best way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indeed. I agree with a lot of the above. Of course, detractors will still point to games we ''should have won'' because x, y, z team were ''there for the taking'' but I am fairly certain that every other team in the league will have fans saying the same thing.

I do also concede that there have been some frustrating performances this season but, again, this happens every season with every team and every manager. Every club (even Man U) can look back and point to games where they feel they could/should have got a better result. But, you can NEVER guarantee that any given result would have turned out more favourably had the manager only taken your advice and ''gone for it''.

It really is phenomenal that a team built on our budget has finished comfortably mid table for its first two seasons back in the EPL. The U18s'' success is absolutely the icing on a very luscious cake and bodes well for the future. We should all now just enjoy the summer and look forward to what next season may bring.

There is nothing wrong with providing your opinion; this is exactly what this forum is for and, of course, there will always be times when fans disagree with the manager''s decisions. However, there is absolutely no need for the playground name-calling that has been a feature of discussions during the more stressful parts of this campaign. Just ignore the obvious trolls (such people actually get satisfaction out of those who can''t help but take the bait) and provide your views calmly and rationally. Accept that the will inevitably be others who disagree with you.

Finally, I do think that the need to gloat is a particularly ugly trait and don''t like to see it on either side of the argument. Discretion is the better part of valour. Everybody can see the evidence before them at any given time and don''t need their faces rubbed in it, regardless of how they have behaved towards you.

This is an amazing time to be an NCFC fan. I hope we can all continue to enjoy it and have an equally successful campaign next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''ll be making no apologies.

My opinion was that our players were more than good enough for this level, but haven''t shown their quality since the Christmas period due to the manager''s tactics, I''ll stand by that 100%.

The last 2 performances have been great, but it doesn''t paper over the alarming cracks we''ve seen since the turn of the year for me.

Hughton achieved his objective and therefor deserves to keep his job and build for next season, however I sincerely hope lessons have been learned in the 2nd half of the season, and in the last 2 games in particular.

Could I hear some apologies from posters excusing our awful form since Christmas by saying our players are only Championship/League One cloggers who over achieved last year please?

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]I''ll be making no apologies.

My opinion was that our players were more than good enough for this level, but haven''t shown their quality since the Christmas period due to the manager''s tactics, I''ll stand by that 100%.

The last 2 performances have been great, but it doesn''t paper over the alarming cracks we''ve seen since the turn of the year for me.

Hughton achieved his objective and therefor deserves to keep his job and build for next season, however I sincerely hope lessons have been learned in the 2nd half of the season, and in the last 2 games in particular.

Could I hear some apologies from posters excusing our awful form since Christmas by saying our players are only Championship/League One cloggers who over achieved last year please?

Thanks.[/quote]That is interesting, I take it you will be taking comfort from the alarming form of WBA, Swansea, Newcastle & Sunderland etc for next season then? Whilst I can see exactly why some posters were worried, I have no issue whatsoever with people expressing their concerns on messageboards, at the end of the day thats what they are here for, but what really annoyed me was how people were posting their opinions in a matter of fact way, the amount of posts that came up along the lines of "we are relegated" really bugged me, alongside the ridiculous bashing of Hughtons interviews and then the rumour making about Ruddy going to Arsenal etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly won''t be apologising for things other people said.

The fact is we were 7th in December, and we ended up praying for Swansea to come back from 2-1 down at Wigan less than 2 weeks ago, it should never have got that close from the position we''d put ourselves in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]I certainly won''t be apologising for things other people said.

The fact is we were 7th in December, and we ended up praying for Swansea to come back from 2-1 down at Wigan less than 2 weeks ago, it should never have got that close from the position we''d put ourselves in.[/quote]But you''re not looking at the whole picture. Credit must be given for reaching 7th place in the first instance, you are only judging us after Christmas. A mid table finish is about where we are as a club, would I have been happy with a 17th place finish? Absolutely, would I have been surprised if we got relegated this year? Of course not, the average value of our first 11 normally came to about £11m, most clubs in the premier league have players worth more than that. Stats don''t lie, we''ve improved on last year on and off the pitch, credit is due and deserved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am looking at the whole picture, hence my concern.

Of course credit must be given, and it was, for reaching 7th. But I''m concerned about our current form and whether that continues into next season.

Play like we did in the 2nd half of this season in the first half of next and we''ll be as good as relegated by Christmas.

We improved in some areas on last year no doubt, but there were plenty of others where we went backwards. Points scored, goals scored and number of victories to name just a few.

How much our team cost when we purchased them is pretty much irrelevant. Just about every single one of them is worth far more than what we paid, some great work by Hughton and Lambert in this area. Even have to credit Gunn and Roeder for Holty and Wes. Ruddy is worth as much alone now as the £11m figure you''ve quoted there.

Torres isn''t 25 times the player Michu is just because Chelsea paid 25 times more.

I''m not shouting Hughton Out, as I said he deserves to continue, but you can''t just ignore the 2nd half of the season.

And where are the apologies from posters saying our players are Championship standard eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"And where are the apologies from posters saying our players are Championship standard eh?"

Not from me you won''t. Because they are.

When players like Pilkington, Wes, Snodgrass, Johnson, Russell etc. are on top of their game they look like Prem standard players. However they cannot produce that extra touch of class, or pace, or positional intelligence that I see demonstrated by the majority of players from other teams - or, if they do, too sporadically.

People always want to think in absolutes, in yes/no terms, & this applies to player ability as much as anything, but in truth the margins are fine, & made up of a composite of factors.

Whittaker is a good player, scored a cracking goal, but Rodwell simply skinned him yesterday, which someone like Naughton would have been able to prevent.

I''m going to be controversial here, & say that Howson would not have scored that goal if Man City had been playing for a Champions League place. Their tackling was about league 1 standard.

I''ve said before that I love our players; they are honest, hard working lads who strive to be better than they are. Totally admirable. But they are not quite there.

We need players of the quality of Bassong & Ruddy to progress. More like RVW (I hope & believe!).

Onward & upward!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sigh.

I think you''re mistaking Premier League quality and Chanpions League quality. Our players ARE good enough for this level, they''ve proved it over 2 seasons.

How many seasons will they need to complete at this level for you to consider them good enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ron your post is very contradictory, in one part you sat defintively that our players are Championship standard: you then go on to say how complex the whole issue is suggesting that it is not possible to be so exact ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mr.B I do believe our current form is nothing to worry about. In fact, we''ve been scoring and battling for results for a while now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with that canarycat. But whilst history is interesting and - as you say - the stuff that fairy-tales are made from; what matters is the present. Improvement (or not) is to be based on that, not on the past. So if someone wants to express an opinion that perhaps we could be more positive on the pitch, or maybe whats-his-name didn''t play very well, that''s commentary on the present, i.e. where it counts and matters. You sound like you want to censor people here. That''s worse, in my book, than having a stupid opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr V, my point is that the margins are very small. To make a crude analysis, if ManU players are 100% (on average) then Reading players would be 80-85% & WBA''s 90%.

In amongst those teams you have players who are extravagantly gifted (Tevez, RVP, Rooney, Benteke, Lampard, Suarez etc etc), who play fairly consistently to their abilities. Fulham have Berbatov; not the hardest worker, but do we have anyone with his ability to conjure a goal out of nothing?

In terms of ability you could replace most of our squad with Championship players. Attitude is a different matter however.

It''s unfortunate, but the only objective way of measuring our players'' value is to look at their transfer value.

Nuff said.

And the whole, the resultant game we know & love, is a hugely complex, dynamic. involving, entertaining experience where skill, athleticism, character, intelligence, strength & chains of cause & effect with a vanishingly small probability of determining the outcome (luck) all play a part.

And yet it''s such a simple game. 22 players, a ball, 2 goals.

It''s a metaphor for life; it''s transcendental; it''s more important than life or death; it''s only a bloody game; it''s football!

Enjoy!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ron - to further your point and the quality of our players we must look at the remainder of our squad. Many of those are certainly not above Championship. The lack of use of substitutes at times was because we did not have the quality on the bench to change things. Why change your team to make it weaker?

A regular match day squad player has now been released (Jackson) and others on our bench simply are not Premiership quality.

I agree with you to some extent in that our players have to be playing well to be good enough. What we need is for players to be playing average to be good enough and when they are playing well to be outstanding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Sigh. I think you''re mistaking Premier League quality and Chanpions League quality. Our players ARE good enough for this level, they''ve proved it over 2 seasons. How many seasons will they need to complete at this level for you to consider them good enough?[/quote]

 

So surely our manager has proved that he is good enough for this level?

Meaning he should have our full support?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×