Hughton has ruined some of our players

[lake district canary 0]

There are a number of players in our squad that enjoyed decent seasons last year, yet this season they look like completely different players devoid of confidence. I know as a Club we have to move on but some of these lads still have something to give the side in my opinion. The treatment of some of these players questions whether the morale of the squad outside of the regulars is very good at all. I''m very much of the opinion Hughton has no motivational skills to inspire confidence, Lambert got a lot of our players, including lads like Wilbraham, who was not really Premier class.

GRANT HOLT - 15 league goals this season but I''d be surprised if he got more than 5 this season. CH''s rigid system is isolating him and he''s not getting support he needs. Some fans are saying he become ''lazy''. This is rubbish, he''s having to battle very hard for not a lot of reward. Our captain looks a pale shadow of his former self. I can''t imagine he''s particularly happy about our negativity and can see him leaving in summer.

DAVID FOX - finished 3rd in POTS last year but hardly got a look in this season. Mainly because Hughton favours the two battlers in midfield and Foxy''s defensive game isn''t up to much. However, his range of passing, awareness and vision would surely add something to our quite frankly pedestrian and uncreative midfield. I''ve seen comments that he''s had chances and blown them, but judging a player on 4 or 5 games, and one that is clearly rusty and lacking match fitness is harsh. Struggles to get on the bench these days, even Surman is given the nod ahead of him. Very likely we''ll never see him in a City shirt next season.

JONNY HOWSON - after an impressive end of last season, I was predicting England honours for him as I rated him so highly. Not any more. At the start of the season he got in the team but was played as a holding player; but his strengths are as a box-to-box player. Hughton''s system is not allowing him to express himself. He now looks totally devoid of confidence every time he gets on the pitch and a shadow of his former self.

SIMEON JACKSON - maybe not entirely PL class but always looked lively last season. This year however the spark seems to have gone from his game. The fact that Hughton only rates him as a last resort is probably not helping him.

ELLIOTT BENNETT - when he was playing well earlier in the season he wasn''t given the chance. Now he is he''s being played out of position and having to cut in to use his right foot. Surely a manager with a plan would think to swap him and Snoddy on the wings, even if not for the entire 90 minutes.

[hogesar 10,766]

He hasn''t ruined our players nearly as much as you''ve ruined my lunch-break with a ridiculous post blaming Hughton for players not performing. I''ll admit a couple deserve better runs but that''s always going to be true of some players when you have a competitive squad.

[lake district canary 0]

I thought Chris Hughton was the manager? It''s him that''s selecting the negative tactics and rigid formation week in, week out. He''s served up dross for most of the season.

[Stig 0]

Whatever it is that is happening, I don''t want it to be happening and would prefer if something opposite to what is happening... happened.

[Not Nigel 0]

Agreed about Howson and in part about Bennett who for no apparent reason was banished to the bench are playing an important part in our win against Arsenal at home. Hughton doesn''t appear to know how to use Howson, Lambert did.

Disagree about Fox and Jackson who had their limitations last season under Lambert. They are playing with a little less confidence, yes, but in reality are good Championship players who both have limitations in their game at this level.... both physicality actually, Fox doesn''t get stuck in enough and Jackson gets knocked off the ball everytime he gets it.

As for Holt..... don''t think he has been ruined as a player, but rather is just much more dangerous in a 4-4-2.

Howson and Bennett agreed, the rest disagree.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Bennett isnt playing because Snodgrass is and he wasnt here last season. Howson has not really made a mark at the club yet but still may. Holt is finding it harder as lone striker i agree but now Becchio is here he may be part of a front 2 again, at home at least

[nutty nigel 7,902]

I would suggest Hughton has got a lot out of our players too. Bassong looks every inch a top premier league centre back but I''m not sure that was the case at Wolves. Turner had a shaky start but he has settled in and we have a better pairing than we ever did last season. Johnson has excelled under Hughton looking twice the player he did last year. Tettey has come in and made a huge difference to our defensive midfield. Whittaker had settled in well and played in some of our best performances. Martin has stepped up in Whittaker absence with the same authority and confidence he had last season. Hughton has found a system apart from the diamond that accomodates Wes and saving the best til last Snodgrass has been an absolute revelation on the right. Easily our best player this season any manager would be crazy to move him just because an inferior player wants that position.

 

 

[NorwichNorth 0]

Unfortunatly Fox and howson are just not CH type players which is a shame because i think both can offer something.

[mrs miggins 0]

I don''t know why Howson isn''t a Hughton type of player (whatever that is). Unfortunately howson just hasn''t perfomed as well as BJ this season, you can''t blame Hughton for that....although i''m sure most of you will

[MyGodWeArePoorToWatch 0]

Oh dear, this thread will have ostrich society foaming at the beak !!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="the1englishman"]Oh dear, this thread will have ostrich society foaming at the beak !![/quote]

 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

 

[Nick 0]

fox is rubbish

[NorwichNorth 0]

Johnson has performed better because his game suits the teams tactics!! Which is stay solid work hard and break up play. There is no emphasis on passing the ball which howson is good at. Johnson''s pass completion rate this season in over 20 games is 71% which for a centre midfielder is shocking but hes not in the team to do that.

[Not Nigel 0]

NorwichNorth is right.... there is no room for Howson and Fox in a Hughton system because he plays with two defensive midfielders.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

The problem with players like Whittaker, Garrido, Bassong, Turner and Snodgrass is that they came here as a result of the club moving forwards and competing with other big clubs for Premier League players. This doesn''t suit those who like to hang on to their little old norwich philosophy of seeing players from the third division mixing it with the big boys.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

The problem with players like Whittaker, Garrido, Bassong, Turner and Snodgrass is that they came here as a result of the club moving forwards and competing with other big clubs for Premier League players. This doesn''t suit those who like to hang on to their little old norwich philosophy of seeing players from the third division mixing it with the big boys.

 

 

[/quote]

 

And Tettey.

 

 

[NorwichNorth 0]

[quote user="Nick"]fox is rubbish[/quote]

Bit harsh

[Rolf Harris 33]

Hughtons old fashion and limited tactics has effected some of the players in pro and negative ways.

[NorwichNorth 0]

Che a great way of putting it. Couldnt agree more!

[ZLF 335]

oh do give over.   some players form is not up to last years standards (holt was sparkling last year,  not hit the same heights this year,  which is not to mean he has been bad,  just not as good)   some have been better (Ruddy, BJ) and some the same (Pilks, Wes or Howson - lost >50% of starts last year too)   The rest are new players

 

And all are in a new system.

 

The players  have not been "ruined" by the manager - he has chosen different players in a different formation with different tactics because thats how he feels we will avoid relegation this year - he will almost certainly succeed in that aim.

 

I hope that we will be more expansive next season when he will have had 2 full budgets to spend and 3 transfer windows to complete his transition.

 

[Rolf Harris 33]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

oh do give over.   some players form is not up to last years standards (holt was sparkling last year,  not hit the same heights this year,  which is not to mean he has been bad,  just not as good)   some have been better (Ruddy, BJ) and some the same (Pilks, Wes or Howson - lost >50% of starts last year too)   The rest are new players

 

And all are in a new system.

 

The players  have not been "ruined" by the manager - he has chosen different players in a different formation with different tactics because thats how he feels we will avoid relegation this year - he will almost certainly succeed in that aim.

 

I hope that we will be more expansive next season when he will have had 2 full budgets to spend and 3 transfer windows to complete his transition.

 

[/quote]And due to that certain players are unable to preform to the standards they did last season because of the tactics used this season.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

But last season''s finished. The club has moved on. And hopefully we''ll move on next season. I think we will always struggle to stay up. I think the best we can hope for is to spend two thirds of each season avoiding the drop. Eventually the pressure will tell. Players like Russell Martin and David Fox have served our club well and are fans favourites. But we have to continually move forwards to even stand still. Of course I''d love it if we got to the stage where Snoddy was upgraded but that would take serious money.

 

 

[smooth 114]

Sorry to say I just feel it shows the calibre of our players and that some have been at he highest level they can be.

Grant holt, got his contract, sometimes you have to make goals and take those chances you make on your own. Grant holt has shown why no other premiership club other than west ham showed any interest. He is a good player for us but he works for us, he is not going to set alight any other premiership club. He will get a nice wage on our bench for two seasons after we pick up two strikers in the summer.

Simeon Jackson only had a full season in league 1 with a poor gills team. Since then he has cameos and has not impressed two managers as we have risen two leagues in that time. Good luck if wolves do want him, he will not be a starting striker for a playoff pushing championship team.

Fox was a 25k recruit, very tidy if not safe. Again played his part, 3rd in POS was a joke with naughton deserving that place. His defensive duties were questioned last year and last year we did not want to play a four man midfield too much as we could be over-run. Again a player who could move on to mid championship mediocrity.

Howson is still so young, I don''t think we have played him in his best positions. But I also would not say he was looking for an England call up as the op mentions. I think Howson is and will become a big part of Ncfc.

Eb is a player who lit up league 1, he does have hustle if not the final quality to really shine in this division. Do I think he has improved since last season, no not really.

There is nothing wrong with players reaching their level or not getting the playing time it is just when they do they need to prove a point.

Eb, Howson, fox, sj were all in our team that faced Luton. There was not one who stood out as having played a full season in the prem the year before.

Howson I do have time for and think is a great addition in the long term and he will improve. The others are squad players at the most, except holty but even his time will come. If we stay up this year we need to upgrade because it is clear many of our first 11 from last season look a level under the new additions that have joined this club.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

At least Chris Hughton''s surname is spelt correctly in the topic title. Some numpty insisted on calling him Houghton on Canary Call on Saturday night. He wasn''t corrected either.

[MyGodWeArePoorToWatch 0]

[quote user="smooth"]Sorry to say I just feel it shows the calibre of our players and that some have been at he highest level they can be.

Grant holt, got his contract, sometimes you have to make goals and take those chances you make on your own. Grant holt has shown why no other premiership club other than west ham showed any interest. He is a good player for us but he works for us, he is not going to set alight any other premiership club. He will get a nice wage on our bench for two seasons after we pick up two strikers in the summer.

Simeon Jackson only had a full season in league 1 with a poor gills team. Since then he has cameos and has not impressed two managers as we have risen two leagues in that time. Good luck if wolves do want him, he will not be a starting striker for a playoff pushing championship team.

Fox was a 25k recruit, very tidy if not safe. Again played his part, 3rd in POS was a joke with naughton deserving that place. His defensive duties were questioned last year and last year we did not want to play a four man midfield too much as we could be over-run. Again a player who could move on to mid championship mediocrity.

Howson is still so young, I don''t think we have played him in his best positions. But I also would not say he was looking for an England call up as the op mentions. I think Howson is and will become a big part of Ncfc.

Eb is a player who lit up league 1, he does have hustle if not the final quality to really shine in this division. Do I think he has improved since last season, no not really.

There is nothing wrong with players reaching their level or not getting the playing time it is just when they do they need to prove a point.

Eb, Howson, fox, sj were all in our team that faced Luton. There was not one who stood out as having played a full season in the prem the year before.

Howson I do have time for and think is a great addition in the long term and he will improve. The others are squad players at the most, except holty but even his time will come. If we stay up this year we need to upgrade because it is clear many of our first 11 from last season look a level under the new additions that have joined this club.[/quote]

Cant say i entirly agree with that. We have conceded more this season. Scored less this season, and we have plenty of new players in the first team.

For sure the players didnt cover themselves in glory against luton.

But there is something fundemently wrong, and its the balance, we cant achieve the happy medium of what is needed this year, and what was posotive about last year.

We cant blame this years results on last years players.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Well done[Y]

 

Agreed we can''t blame this season''s results on last season''s players. But neither can we assume that last season''s players would have got the same results this season.

 

 

[Crafty Canary 547]

Chris Hughton came in and realised that the rate at which we conceded goals last season would get us relegated if the goals dried up.

He has made our defensive play much better. Yes players like Suarez make us look awful however in the majority of games we are much tighter and this is reflected in the games lost this season ranking us 1oth in the premiership.

The cost of this has been that the linking play between defence and forward(s) has been less expressive. Couple this with the fact that the only forward of note we have had until the January window is Holty and goals have been at a premium.

I have no doubts that Hughton is aware of this hence the efforts to buy in some real quality in the frontline. City fans want football played with some verve but this requires genuine quality in the midfield and upfront to achieve. In the summer I expect that we shall see such players engaged so that next season we move forward again.

Until then, let''s keep faith with CH and his squad and leave the judgements until after the summer window closes.

OTBC!!

[CambridgeCanary 0]

Can I interpose a couple of facts please?

Last season Fox played 23 matches plus 5 as sub. For the last 8 or so matches he was replaced by Howson

Jackson started 9 matches, came on as sub for a further 12 and scored 2 goals

Elliot Bennett played 21 with 11 as sub.

So, Jackson was already a fringe player coming off the bench and Fox was already moving down the pecking order following the signing of Howson. Bennett was in the team at the expense of Crofts who played 13 with 10 sub.

Football is about change. You might just as sensibly blame Lambert for ruining Lappin by buying Surman.

Much of what you complain about is the natural evolution of a progressing team. Look at some of the players who''ve already fallen to the march through the leagues: Askou, Otsembor, whitbread, Nelson, Mcnamee, Russell and Drury.

Ruined or just superseded by the need for better players to compete at a higher level?

[Surfbird 1]

Pour le Premier Anglais votre grammaire est tres mal.

[JF 694]

He has certainly ruined my Saturday afternoons! Its a sorry state of affairs when you realise your side is far less entertaining than stoke, at least they create chances and score goals. This current Norwich side is the most negative and boring side I have ever seen. Next match I may ask for a alarm call around the 80 minute mark!