Delia v Marcus

lappinitup · December 18, 2012

When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.

From yesterdays EATD webchat........

Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town?

Yes (86%)

No (14%)



Poll: What has been the biggest problem with Evans'' ownership?

His low-profile (18%)

His managerial record (35%)

His investment in the playing budget (10%)

His appointment of Simon Clegg (37%)

Poll: Should Marcus Evans have a greater presence at Portman Road?

Yes, he should be a public face (20%)

Yes, he should issue more statements – even if he doesn’t want to be seen (60%)

No, we should respect his privacy (19%)

So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?

PurpleCanary · December 18, 2012

[quote user="lappinitup"]

When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.

From yesterdays EATD webchat........

Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town?

Yes (86%)

No (14%)



Poll: What has been the biggest problem with Evans'' ownership?

His low-profile (18%)

His managerial record (35%)

His investment in the playing budget (10%)

His appointment of Simon Clegg (37%)

Poll: Should Marcus Evans have a greater presence at Portman Road?

Yes, he should be a public face (20%)

Yes, he should issue more statements – even if he doesn’t want to be seen (60%)

No, we should respect his privacy (19%)

So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?

[/quote]

Not at all. During Smith''s reign we have been relegated twice. Ipswich Town have not been relegated once while Evans has been the owner. Those hard facts speak for themselves.

Felixfan · December 18, 2012

The vast majority supported Delia throughout.

lake district canary · December 18, 2012

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"]

When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.

So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?

[/quote]

Not at all. During Smith''s reign we have been relegated twice. Ipswich Town have not been relegated once while Evans has been the owner. Those hard facts speak for themselves.

[/quote]

Hard facts? Ok then - how many times have IT been promoted under Evans - and how many times have Norwich been promoted under Smith?

Budgie · December 18, 2012

>>Not at all. During Smith''s reign we have been relegated twice. Ipswich Town have not been relegated once while Evans has been the owner. Those hard facts speak for themselves.

Yeah, we have been promoted 3 times under Delia. How many they had under Evans? Not that I''m using promotion/relegation as a bench mark.... but you did bring it up of course.

Yellowbeagle · December 18, 2012

So let me get this right PurpleCanary, Ipswich need to get promoted to the premier league as Champions then relegated from it before they have done half as badly as Delia. Facts are usually useless in isolation.

ZLF · December 18, 2012

[quote user="lappinitup"]

When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.

From yesterdays EATD webchat........

Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town?

Yes (86%)

No (14%)



Poll: What has been the biggest problem with Evans'' ownership?

His low-profile (18%)

His managerial record (35%)

His investment in the playing budget (10%)

His appointment of Simon Clegg (37%)

Poll: Should Marcus Evans have a greater presence at Portman Road?

Yes, he should be a public face (20%)

Yes, he should issue more statements – even if he doesn’t want to be seen (60%)

No, we should respect his privacy (19%)

So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?

[/quote]

Shakes head - when everything is going so positively did we really need to reopen this old circular debate??

Top trolling Lappin :-D [Y]

lappinitup · December 18, 2012

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

Top trolling Lappin :-D [Y][/quote]Not trolling at all Zips. My point is not so much about Delia but more about Town fans complacency. I am amazed at the support Evans has when his record is pitiful. Sixth in the league when he took them over but they''ve not made a top half finish since. Debt doubled, a team full of loans and freebies, diminishing crowds and yet 86% still support him. Why?

Crafty Canary · December 18, 2012

When things are going badly it is usual for those in charge either as owners if a propriety business or the board of directors to take flack for their oversight of business performance. As the very public face of NCFC Delia has been the focus for most of this discontent. That goes with the turf.

Equally when things are going well the owners or board of directors are deserving of praise. The fact is that since our relegation the progress has been staggering. Whether this is down to an epiphany by the board or demands from the banks is not the point in that whatever the cause of the decisions taken they have very largely been the correct ones.

The current stewardship of our beloved club is going well however human nature tells us that should the cycle turn then rumblings will begin to be louder.

Bury Yellow · December 18, 2012

Fact is, most Binners realise that they owe their existence to Evans.

If, for whatever reason he decided to pull out or suffered a financial crash, Binville would be in the smelly stuff. Incredible as it is and despite what City1st often says, they are lucky to have Evans rather that some of the mystery wise men from the East

Their highly skilful and experienced Chief Exec (!!) comes out of the poll poorly and I would say Evans biggest fault was that initial appointment.

Whilst the OP has started an interesting topic, it is difficult to compare the Smith/Evans record

BlyBlyBabes · December 18, 2012

Instructive isn''t it?

I mean those who are obsessed with Ipswich.

OTBC

a1canary · December 18, 2012

[quote user="lappinitup"]

When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.

From yesterdays EATD webchat........

Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town?

Yes (86%)

No (14%)

[/quote]

I have to say i am astonished by this. I think 86% of Binners are clearly suffering from Stockholm Syndrome!

Although i suppose if you base the question purely on what might have become of them had he not rocked up when he did, people might see him as a good thing. But even then i think whatever could have happened it would have been better than 5 years of total stagnation.

lappinitup · December 18, 2012

[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="lappinitup"]From yesterdays EATD webchat........

Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town?

Yes (86%)

No (14%)

[/quote]

I have to say i am astonished by this. I think 86% of Binners are clearly suffering from Stockholm Syndrome![/quote]

And that''s what shocked me A1. The link to the webchat read "Ipswich Town webchat on Marcus Evans’ five years in charge" and yet there was very little mentioned about Evans, more about players. I just don''t think Delia would have got away that lightly!

lappinitup · December 18, 2012

Let''s try that again......

http://www.greenun24.co.uk/home/live-chat

im spartacus canary · December 18, 2012

Today, 4:30 PM

ZippersLeftFoot

Joined on 05/09/2003
Posts 8,845

Re: Delia v Marcus

<BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> lappinitup wrote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.
 
From yesterdays EATD webchat........ 
<DL class="Poll18908 Poll Voted">
<DT>Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town? </DT></DL>
Yes (86%) 
No (14%)
<DIV class=Content>
<DL class="Poll18910 Poll Voted">
<DT> 
<DT>
<DT>Poll: What has been the biggest problem with Evans'' ownership? </DT></DL></DIV>
His low-profile (18%) 
His managerial record (35%) 
His investment in the playing budget (10%) 
His appointment of Simon Clegg (37%) 
 
Poll: Should Marcus Evans have a greater presence at Portman Road? 
Yes, he should be a public face (20%) 
Yes, he should issue more statements – even if he doesn’t want to be seen (60%) 
No, we should respect his privacy (19%)
 
So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shakes head - when everything is going so positively did we really need to reopen this old circular debate??

Top trolling Lappin :-D <img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-21.gif" alt="Yes [Y]" />

Today, 4:30 PM

ZippersLeftFoot

Joined on 05/09/2003
Posts 8,845

Re: Delia v Marcus

<BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> lappinitup wrote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.
 
From yesterdays EATD webchat........ 
<DL class="Poll18908 Poll Voted">
<DT>Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town? </DT></DL>
Yes (86%) 
No (14%)
<DIV class=Content>
<DL class="Poll18910 Poll Voted">
<DT> 
<DT>
<DT>Poll: What has been the biggest problem with Evans'' ownership? </DT></DL></DIV>
His low-profile (18%) 
His managerial record (35%) 
His investment in the playing budget (10%) 
His appointment of Simon Clegg (37%) 
 
Poll: Should Marcus Evans have a greater presence at Portman Road? 
Yes, he should be a public face (20%) 
Yes, he should issue more statements – even if he doesn’t want to be seen (60%) 
No, we should respect his privacy (19%)
 
So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shakes head - when everything is going so positively did we really need to reopen this old circular debate??

Top trolling Lappin :-D <img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-21.gif" alt="Yes [Y]" />

ZippersLeftFoot wrote the following post at 18/12/2012 4:30 PM:

<BLOCKQUOTE><table width="85%"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif"> lappinitup wrote:</td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.
 
From yesterdays EATD webchat........ 
<DL class="Poll18908 Poll Voted">
<DT>Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town? </DT></DL>
Yes (86%) 
No (14%)
<DIV class=Content>
<DL class="Poll18910 Poll Voted">
<DT> 
<DT>
<DT>Poll: What has been the biggest problem with Evans'' ownership? </DT></DL></DIV>
His low-profile (18%) 
His managerial record (35%) 
His investment in the playing budget (10%) 
His appointment of Simon Clegg (37%) 
 
Poll: Should Marcus Evans have a greater presence at Portman Road? 
Yes, he should be a public face (20%) 
Yes, he should issue more statements – even if he doesn’t want to be seen (60%) 
No, we should respect his privacy (19%)
 
So, my question is, Were we too harsh on Delia Smith and should we have shown more support and restraint as Town fans have for Marcus Evans?</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shakes head - when everything is going so positively did we really need to reopen this old circular debate??

Top trolling Lappin :-D <img src="/forums/pinkun/cs/emoticons/emotion-21.gif" alt="Yes [Y]" />

is this the code they found on that dead pigeon from world war 2 ?

Zak Van Burger · December 18, 2012

[quote user="lappinitup"]The link to the webchat read "Ipswich Town webchat on Marcus Evans’ five years in charge" and yet there was very little mentioned about Evans, more about players. I just don''t think Delia would have got away that lightly![/quote]Did Delia actually get a hard time of it anywhere other than a couple of internet message boards?

drurys testamonials V 15 · December 18, 2012

No comparison between them

nutty nigel · December 18, 2012

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BULLSH1T PhD DipEM "]When things are going badly it is usual for those in charge either as owners if a propriety business or the board of directors to take flack for their oversight of business performance. As the very public face of NCFC Delia has been the focus for most of this discontent. That goes with the turf. Equally when things are going well the owners or board of directors are deserving of praise. The fact is that since our relegation the progress has been staggering. Whether this is down to an epiphany by the board or demands from the banks is not the point in that whatever the cause of the decisions taken they have very largely been the correct ones. The current stewardship of our beloved club is going well however human nature tells us that should the cycle turn then rumblings will begin to be louder.[/quote]

Interesting thoughts Crafty but Lapp''s point was that marcus evans is not the focus of discontent. His point I believe was that 86% of the poll thought the boy mucus was a good thing and stuck the blame elsewhere.

I think Felix summed it up with his concise post stating "the vast majority supported Delia throughout." It really was only a few that made up a nasty gang of lowlifes on the messageboards that made her a focus of their discontent. They were ungrateful then and are still ungrateful even now.

Crafty Canary · December 18, 2012

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BULLSH1T PhD DipEM "]When things are going badly it is usual for those in charge either as owners if a propriety business or the board of directors to take flack for their oversight of business performance. As the very public face of NCFC Delia has been the focus for most of this discontent. That goes with the turf. Equally when things are going well the owners or board of directors are deserving of praise. The fact is that since our relegation the progress has been staggering. Whether this is down to an epiphany by the board or demands from the banks is not the point in that whatever the cause of the decisions taken they have very largely been the correct ones. The current stewardship of our beloved club is going well however human nature tells us that should the cycle turn then rumblings will begin to be louder.[/quote]

Interesting thoughts Crafty but Lapp''s point was that marcus evans is not the focus of discontent. His point I believe was that 86% of the poll thought the boy mucus was a good thing and stuck the blame elsewhere.

I think Felix summed it up with his concise post stating "the vast majority supported Delia throughout." It really was only a few that made up a nasty gang of lowlifes on the messageboards that made her a focus of their discontent. They were ungrateful then and are still ungrateful even now.

[/quote]

Frankly, I''m not the slightest bit interested in what binners think of he who must not be seen. if they think the sun shines out of his derriere that''s their business.

When things were going belly up here the board got lots of flack and deserved it. Now things are going well the reconstructed board is deserving of praise. That''s the way of the world and to decry those who have a different view is stunningly arrogant since it implies that only compliant views are worthy of merit - might work well in totalitarian systems but not in our democracy.

nutty nigel · December 19, 2012

There''s merit in Purples ''Year Zero'' thread but with 864 views and 30 replies on this thread in just 8 hours it would seem the great pink un public are not ready for it. Even an infrequent poster like yourself has been moved to post here coop[;)]

ZLF · December 19, 2012

Fair enough Lappin - I do get your point but...

I will put the subsequent pages down to unintended consequences as your question seems to have been lost.

I dont see any comparison between the quality of our fans, owners or players and tahns and am not really interested in pondering the why.

ps

I definitely wont be quoting again - I thought that error had been fixed!

The Walking Man · December 19, 2012

Maybe the binners are smarter than we give them credit for.

If they start protesting at Marcus Evans he''ll look to sell up and claim the £80m in loans the club currently owe him therefore financially crippling Ipswich for years to come.

I think ME is the only option for the binners and maybe they realise that too...

PurpleCanary · December 19, 2012

[quote user="icoopius"]i do believe i hear purple''s ''year zero'' thread positively screaming at me.
[/quote]

The equivalent of the Christmas truce[{][}] on the Western Front in World War One. It seems to have provoked a short break in hostilities before everyone started killing[8o|] each other again.

December 19, 2012

WOW what a thoroughly decent post BLY, Congratulations on being the bigger man!!

PurpleCanary · December 19, 2012

[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="lappinitup"]

When Norwich City were stumbling along in the bottom half of the Championship, people were calling for Delia''s head, yet in a similar position, binner fans are blaming everybody except Marcus Evans. It''s all too obvious that they are following a similar path that led to our demise ie loans and freebies, and yet they seem quite happy with it.

From yesterdays EATD webchat........

Poll: Has Marcus Evans been a good thing for Ipswich Town?

Yes (86%)

No (14%)

[/quote]

I have to say i am astonished by this. I think 86% of Binners are clearly suffering from Stockholm Syndrome!

Although i suppose if you base the question purely on what might have become of them had he not rocked up when he did, people might see him as a good thing. But even then i think whatever could have happened it would have been better than 5 years of total stagnation.

[/quote]

To be serious about this, that surely is the point. As far as I understand it from what I read here there is only one certainty about Evans. Ipswich had massive external debt (presumably interest as well as capital) that it couldn''t pay back, and so was heading- again - for administration. Evans turned that into internal debt and while he is still charging interest to himself there is no evidence at all that he will do a bunk and call in the capital debt and so bankrupt the club.

It is impossible to paint that as anything but a better financial situation - and so a better footballing situation - than what had been the increasingly imminent alternative. Stagnation in the second tier, however tedious, is preferable to administration and relegation and points penalties and so on.

All the rest that gets repeated ad nauseam as supposedly hard fact, about tax dodges (for which I have never seen a shred of evidence here) and plug-pulling by Evans, seems to be nothing more than wishful thinking by NCFC fans hoping for the worst.

a1canary · December 19, 2012

All fair points as Purps, but this assumes a surprisingly enlightened and balanced outlook from them lot. Regardless of who they are, football fans just don''t do ''balanced and enlightened'' - look at Chelsea fans'' response to Benitez, our own fans response to our owners at times in our recent history. You have to expect fans to be for and against, it''s just the 86% figure that amazes me.

The style of his ownership, which is unlike any other club owner, doesn''t do him any favours and simply serves to fuel the speculation around his intentions in taking over. It is always said he isn''t a fan, but i don''t think that has ever been proved either way. He is said to have connections in Suffolk so it might be that he is a fan which would answer most of the questions over his ownership. The tax question is interesting - there''s an element of no smoke without fire to that seeing as all his 15 companies under the ME group and the ME group itself are all registered in Bermuda. It wouldn''t be surprising if there was a Starbucks style arrangement whereby ITFC''s losses offset profits on uk operations elsewhere in the group to avoid tax.

But I totally agree about the wishful thinking from our own fans - i was met with some bizarre hostility on here when i dared to suggest they could do well in League 1 if they went down.

PurpleCanary · December 19, 2012

[quote user="a1canary"]

All fair points as Purps, but this assumes a surprisingly enlightened and balanced outlook from them lot. Regardless of who they are, football fans just don''t do ''balanced and enlightened'' - look at Chelsea fans'' response to Benitez, our own fans response to our owners at times in our recent history. You have to expect fans to be for and against, it''s just the 86% figure that amazes me.

The style of his ownership, which is unlike any other club owner, doesn''t do him any favours and simply serves to fuel the speculation around his intentions in taking over. It is always said he isn''t a fan, but i don''t think that has ever been proved either way. He is said to have connections in Suffolk so it might be that he is a fan which would answer most of the questions over his ownership. The tax question is interesting - there''s an element of no smoke without fire to that seeing as all his 15 companies under the ME group and the ME group itself are all registered in Bermuda. It wouldn''t be surprising if there was a Starbucks style arrangement whereby ITFC''s losses offset profits on uk operations elsewhere in the group to avoid tax.

But I totally agree about the wishful thinking from our own fans - i was met with some bizarre hostility on here when i dared to suggest they could do well in League 1 if they went down.

[/quote]

Yes, enlightened and balanced don''t SEEM the obvious characteristics of football fans! But, again, isn''t there a point here, that too much attention is paid to a very vocal minority? To the 14 per cent rather than the 86 per cent who are (comparitively!) enlightened and balanced? That percentage split by Ipswich fans doesn''t surprise me that much.

Posters here have stressed that most fans stayed pro-Delia even through the bad times. I don''t know if that is entirely true, but certainly the noise made by the anti-Delia faction was out of proportion to its numbers.

As to Evans staying in the shadows, I agree; one long interview or an appearance an a fans'' forum would be a good idea. Assuming, that is, the answers would be conmforting!

nutty nigel · December 19, 2012

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BULLSH1T PhD DipEM "][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Real Dr Crafty BULLSH1T PhD DipEM "]When things are going badly it is usual for those in charge either as owners if a propriety business or the board of directors to take flack for their oversight of business performance. As the very public face of NCFC Delia has been the focus for most of this discontent. That goes with the turf. Equally when things are going well the owners or board of directors are deserving of praise. The fact is that since our relegation the progress has been staggering. Whether this is down to an epiphany by the board or demands from the banks is not the point in that whatever the cause of the decisions taken they have very largely been the correct ones. The current stewardship of our beloved club is going well however human nature tells us that should the cycle turn then rumblings will begin to be louder.[/quote]

Interesting thoughts Crafty but Lapp''s point was that marcus evans is not the focus of discontent. His point I believe was that 86% of the poll thought the boy mucus was a good thing and stuck the blame elsewhere.

I think Felix summed it up with his concise post stating "the vast majority supported Delia throughout." It really was only a few that made up a nasty gang of lowlifes on the messageboards that made her a focus of their discontent. They were ungrateful then and are still ungrateful even now.

[/quote] Frankly, I''m not the slightest bit interested in what binners think of he who must not be seen. if they think the sun shines out of his derriere that''s their business. When things were going belly up here the board got lots of flack and deserved it. Now things are going well the reconstructed board is deserving of praise. That''s the way of the world and to decry those who have a different view is stunningly arrogant since it implies that only compliant views are worthy of merit - might work well in totalitarian systems but not in our democracy.[/quote]

But surely this thread is about what the binners think Crafty. If you don''t have an opinion on that then why bother?

Now just to put the record straight, again, I have never decried anyone for having a point of view. If posters on here didn''t have different points of view there would be no point to a discussion board. What I took issue with was the way you expressed that point of view, alongside your bro and friends, in a nasty vindictive campaign against the club''s owners and especially Delia Smith. It''s all there in the archives of this board but dragging up old threads is tedious. Unless you want me to.

As for the binners, Purple is probably right about their options. As they had already been in administration once, I believe under the same ownership, a second administration wasn''t an option so they had to take what they could get. Or did they? They had some very wealthy people on the board who could have gone down the Smith & Jones route of recovery. But those people weren''t prepared to risk their own fortunes in the way our owners have. But going back to evans it isn''t lost on me that those fans who waged that campaign against our owners saw the evans appointment as ambitious and used it as a stick to further beat Delia with.

PurpleCanary · December 19, 2012

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

As for the binners, Purple is probably right about their options. As they had already been in administration once, I believe under the same ownership, a second administration wasn''t an option so they had to take what they could get. Or did they? They had some very wealthy people on the board who could have gone down the Smith & Jones route of recovery. But those people weren''t prepared to risk their own fortunes in the way our owners have.

[/quote]

One would need to know some more about what went on behind the scenes at NCFC, and a great deal more about everything at ITFC, but I doubt the situations are comparable, nutty.

Our financial difficulties were manageable; we know this because we were able to do a long-term deal with our lenders. This may have been helped by Smith and Jones and Foulger promising not to call in any of the £3.5m they were owed, plus by Foulger''s £2m share purchase. But the deal did not involve Smith and Jones and Foulger paying off the external debt, which is what you are saying ITFC directors could have done, rather than have Evans do it for them. I don''t know how wealthy these people are, but could they have afforded that? Under our refinancing we still had to pay off all the external debt, and still have some to pay. And that is being done from income, not from the pockets of our directors.

nutty nigel · December 19, 2012

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As for the binners, Purple is probably right about their options. As they had already been in administration once, I believe under the same ownership, a second administration wasn''t an option so they had to take what they could get. Or did they? They had some very wealthy people on the board who could have gone down the Smith & Jones route of recovery. But those people weren''t prepared to risk their own fortunes in the way our owners have.

[/quote]

One would need to know some more about what went on behind the scenes at NCFC, and a great deal more about everything at ITFC, but I doubt the situations are comparable, nutty.

Our financial difficulties were manageable; we know this because we were able to do a long-term deal with our lenders. This may have been helped by Smith and Jones and Foulger promising not to call in any of the £3.5m they were owed, plus by Foulger''s £2m share purchase. But the deal did not involve Smith and Jones and Foulger paying off the external debt, which is what you are saying ITFC directors could have done, rather than have Evans do it for them. I don''t know how wealthy these people are, but could they have afforded that? Under our refinancing we still had to pay off all the external debt, and still have some to pay. And that is being done from income, not from the pockets of our directors.

[/quote]

I''m not suggesting that the rich binners could have paid external debt. I''m just saying that they could have behaved in the same way as our owners. Or are you saying that Norwich Union would have put the binners into administration? Because I''m pretty confident that wouldn''t have happened Purple.

Delia v Marcus

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ZippersLeftFoot wrote the following post at 18/12/2012 4:30 PM:

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