Saturday : the Result vs the Performance

[It's Character Forming 1,164]

Just skimmed the lunchtime debate and this topic came up.  People saying they''d prefer a win with us playing rubbish, over a good performance where we lose.  Well, duh.  I think any game against the top 6, this year or last, we''d all prefer 3 points even if we don''t play well, rather than a gutsy-performance-and-deserved-better-but-lost-2-0 like Old Trafford last year.  And we desperately need a win right now.

 

But when we say which is more important, then realistically on Saturday if Arsenal play well, it''s quite likely we''ll lose even if we play well too.  Just look at last year.  So if we lose on Saturday it''s not the end of the world - if Arsenal play well and beat us, it won''t be worrying.

Whereas if we put in another disorganized and uncommitted performance - and lose - then I have to say it will add to my concerns about our season.  At least if we play well, even if we end up losing, it would give us something to build on in the more winnable games coming up.   And if we somehow manage to play badly but still get a win - well, that''s a crucial part of being successful in the Prem !

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

Result anytime. We are in need of that vital three pointer.

 

The boost from a win will give will then, hopefully lead to better performances.

[lake district canary 0]

Fighting for a result, trying to win is the only way.   Say we lost 1-0 after a dour contest.   We will then get all the hooton-outers back on their soap boxes.   But what if it is a dour contest and we win 1-0 ?   What then?   Will they still want Hughton out because it wasn''t a good performance?  

This is the trouble with the  hooton-outers.    They would not even welcome a win under Hughton - if we don''t play well.   They will probably still say, yes, we won, but it was poor, Hughton doesn''t play attacking football......blah....blah.....      In short they have got it in for Hughton full stop.   

But a win is a win.   Being able to win ugly is an important  part of sport - I wonder if they will still want Hughton out if we "win ugly" on Saturday??

I like to be optimistic and I know on paper Arsenal should win,   but every match starts 0-0 and a win is possible - even if we have win ugly.

[The acolyte 0]

We need to win, otherwise shit will go down as they say. We will lose if hooton lives up to his shite, but let''s hoping not. Perhaps he will finally wake up as to how we play....So many happy clappers claim that ''good performance=dont panic'' it doesnt. Grow up. Results are everything.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="The acolyte"]We need to win, otherwise shit will go down as they say. We will lose if hooton lives up to his shite, but let''s hoping not. Perhaps he will finally wake up as to how we play....So many happy clappers claim that ''good performance=dont panic'' it doesnt. Grow up. Results are everything.[/quote]You expect us to beat Arsenal?LOL

[The acolyte 0]

No I do not expect us to beat the gooners. Hooton will make sure of that with his shitty ''tactics''

[Bws Cat 0]

Oh ffs...

[The acolyte 0]

What a suprise to have such an immature reaction from shitty1sts little lapdog. Try harder binner.

[Bws Cat 0]

I''d rather be city1sts "Little lapdog" then smudgers "little lapdancer"

[Syteanric 1]

Playing "well" and losing will get us relegatedPlaying Badly and winning will keep us in the premiership....cue bad games every week...

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]Playing "well" and losing will get us relegatedPlaying Badly and winning will keep us in the premiership....cue bad games every week...[/quote]There''s playing well and theres expecting us to beat one of the best teams in the land and BLAMING Hughton because we wont/are not expected to.

[6088m canary 0]

Here then is the strange thing.  We are currently one of the top twenty sides in the land and therefore have the possibility of beating any other top 20 side.  There is of course a far greater difference between the top 4 (Mancs, Chelsea and Arsenal) than the rest, but that doesn''t mean we should all adopt the approach of what''s the point?  The Premier League''s "competitiveness" has been a joke since it''s inception and has basically made the rich and powerful sides even further from our grasp.  I mean, gone are the days when any club our size will make the top 4 unless some oil rich billionaire decides he wants a toy.I myself think that Arsenal will turn us over comfortably, but how comfortably depends on our approach.  Arsenal do not have a great defence in my opinion and their midfield can be lightweight.  We need to get at them from the start.  Actually show them a complete lack of "respect" and just have a go! As so many posters have pointed out our season will not be defined by games against the top 4.  However, we have in my opinion been showing far too much respect (worthy esque in proportion) to our opponents.  Outside the top 4 who are miles ahead i think we should not fear a single other side in this division.  We have shown last season that we can take on anyone.  This season we have "improved" the playing roster and the players who are still here have a full year of experience in the PL.  The attitude/performance is what matters on Saturday.  The coming two months will make or break our season.  Going into winnable games low on confidence, with fans who doubt the set-up, players who aren''t happy with their roles etc will mean we wont pick up the points we should.  If we don''t pick up serious points against the likes of Southampton, Reading, Stoke, Sunderland, Wigan before Christmas then i''m afraid it will be incredibly tough to play catch up.

[Highland Canary 76]

The danger is that we''re seen as the PL whipping boys, with teams like Arsenal viewing us as a great opportunity to improve their goal difference. So if we concede fewer than 4 that would represent a good performance at the moment. Similarly, conceding fewer than 3 against Villa would also represent a good result at the moment.

Stoke is a much more important game - hopefully we can nick a point against them.

[ZLF 274]

We need a win, its possible and hopefully we will get one.  A win on merit would be fantastic,  and I will celebrate a lucky win just as hard!

On form so far we wont win.   On that basis sat is ALL about the performance;  endeavour,  defensive solidity and taking the game to arsenal as we look for a win unawed by their technical superiority but respectful of their capability.  Essential to see continued commitment if we go a goal down.

 

Unless we lose by 5/6 with a lack lustre inept display I dont see how calls for Hughton can increase based on losing to one of the top teams in europe.  

[It's Character Forming 1,164]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

We need a win, its possible and hopefully we will get one.  A win on merit would be fantastic,  and I will celebrate a lucky win just as hard!

On form so far we wont win.   On that basis sat is ALL about the performance;  endeavour,  defensive solidity and taking the game to arsenal as we look for a win unawed by their technical superiority but respectful of their capability.  Essential to see continued commitment if we go a goal down.

Unless we lose by 5/6 with a lack lustre inept display I dont see how calls for Hughton can increase based on losing to one of the top teams in europe.  

[/quote]

 

Agree with this 100% ZLF. 

[First Wizard 0]

The win is everything, nothing else matters.

 

Lose and its 3 points out of 24............he has to go.

[Bill 1,788]

which one of us was ''warned by the mods'', wiz ?

 

you made the accusation

 

now substantiate it

 

 

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]

Result anytime. We are in need of that vital three pointer.

 

The boost from a win will give will then, hopefully lead to better performances.

[/quote]

 

Totally agree Broadstairs, it not rocket science.

[Bill 1,788]

come come wiz

 

it''s not like you to be so coy

 

(I can post the link if you have forgotten)

[Vazzza 62]

I don''t think its a case of result vs performance, more of a "one or the other" scenario. If we get a result then great, if not then we need to at least see a performance. However, I''d take a result over the performance any day.

I unfortuantely think we are going to lose, anyone who doesn''t is probably a bit deluded. The key is not to conceed early and let heads drop, if we do then I wouldn''t be surprised to conceed another 4 or 5+ as Arsenal are playing great football at the moment.

If we can get ahead in the game, its important to keep playing. If we attempt to sit back on a lead it won''t last long.

[paul moy 235]

The thing is under Lambert and even Worthy you always felt there was a surprise result in the offing. I don''t get that feeling with Hughton.  The only surprise nowadays is if we don''t lose by a hatful.

[flying high up in the sky! 1]

[quote user="Wiz"]

The win is everything, nothing else matters.

 

Lose and its 3 points out of 24............he has to go.

[/quote] nah hughton won''t be judged on games against the best teams in Europe. Win lose or draw hughton will stil be here next season and NCFC will still be in the prem.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]The thing is under Lambert and even Worthy you always felt there was a surprise result in the offing. I don''t get that feeling with Hughton.  The only surprise nowadays is if we don''t lose by a hatful.[/quote]

 

What an awful thing to have to say Paul, but 100% right of course. [:''(]

[Stig 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]The thing is under Lambert and even Worthy you always felt there was a surprise result in the offing. I don''t get that feeling with Hughton.  The only surprise nowadays is if we don''t lose by a hatful.[/quote]

It''s true.... and that sucks. I''m not even looking forward to games at the moment, I''ve not been phased by the international break at all. Our performances haven''t been worth watching at all. I''m almost reluctantly going to watch us play Arsenal on telly.

[Gingerpele 0]

Why are people so quick to forget the 4 games we didn''t lose by a hatful?

In fact, although we should have conceded 4/5 goals on 3 occasions already this season, we''ve actually conceded 1 or none on more occasions (and if you include the cup games, in which we were apparently trying according to one God like poster, then you can add 2 more).

I agree, I don''t expect a surprise result. I expect us to win. Fulham was a shambles. QPR and West Ham, we were the better team, had plenty of good attacking play and chances, and should have won. Spurs we were again the better team and were probably unlucky to not get the result (on another day BJ would have scored and Moro would have had a penalty, and I think there was a very unlucky miss from Jackson in the first half. Wasn''t so much poor finishing in that game). Newcastle away we weren''t bad. We weren''t as good, they had some good chances they should have put away, and we didn''t create as much, but with a bit of luck we could have done better. Liverpool was a bit of a shambles, Suarez was allowed to stroll around like he owned the place, and Allen, Gerrard & Sahin had control of the midfield. But we scored twice. Chelsea are looking fantastic, they have outplayed nearly every team this season. I don''t even care about what we did against them last season, because its not last season. They are so much better at the moment. But again, Holt scored.

I''m not trying to say we are great, have no problems what so ever and are just unlucky. There are some worrying things. We look like we don''t know how to defend without Bassong (Fulham, Liverpool and 2/3 of Newcastle game, not counting Chelsea as they would have cut through any defence playing like that). Jackson doesn''t know how to hit the back of the net regularly. Morison doesn''t look confidant meaning we have to rely on Holt for our main supply of goals.

We also lack a creative spark when Pilks isn''t playing. Bennett is still scared of going past people (or is being told not too). Howson doesn''t look as good as last season. And we don''t have a way to fit our best players in, because most of them our midfielders (Fox, Tettey, Johnson, Howson, Bennett, Hoolahan, Pilkington & Snodgrass could all easily be starting for a team of our quality). We also want to be playing one man up top, but our best striker isn''t as good in that role.

If we lose the next couple of games, I''m sure I won''t be as positive, but until that if becomes a reality i''m afraid I can''t look at this situation any less positively.

[Scooby 0]

Well Ginge, good post.

Unfortunately I think facts have to be faced.  We will lose to Arsenal, probably conceding 4 or 5 again.  Hughton will stay, for the time being.  I think he will be given until Christmas to try and turn things around, due mainly to the fact that we have faced Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs already and he will be given a chance to prove he can do it against teams outside the big 6.  Unfortunately I believe the blame lies solely at his door and unless he changes his negative tactics we will continue to perform badly and continue to lose.

For the first time in years I am actually dreading going to the match on Saturday, I desperately home I am proved wrong.

[6088m canary 0]

Indeed! I wouldn''t say we were anywhere close to taking Newcastle down.  They missed a penalty, seemingly could cut us open at will, and really never got out of second gear.  West Ham were shockingly bad but then we couldn''t beat them, so what does that make us?!  QPR have good individuals (allegedly) but are most definitely not a "team" and should have been turned over.  Spurs games, yes Friedel played well, but i can''t imagine anybody other than the most optimistic of fan would say that we look like outscoring sides on a regular basis.Arsenal 999 times out of 1000 on current form will do us, and i can''t see any other result.  The worrying thing is i can''t see us turning over a Lambert inspired Villa (complete shite last season and not a lot better this) or Stoke (who some seem to think is the easiest game we play all season!?!), which only points to one question.....where will the points come from?What would be nice to see is Fox back in the side, and taking on Arsenal at their own game.  They don''t have a big strong enforcer in midfield, so neither should we.  Fox settles the whole side down, plays the ball well and is always open to relieve pressure.  BJ, whilst i will be the first to admit has come on since last season should still not be in the starting line up.  What it does is put the entire mindset of our side into a get stuck in, kick and rush style of play which doesn''t suit us at all.  We are not Stoke, we don''t have the height or strength to play like that.  What we can do is get the ball down and play......well we used to anyway.  Howson and Johnson as a midfield pairing will not deliver us anywhere near enough points to survive.  Something needs to change.  Have Fox sit, give Howson licence to actually pass the half way line and play with two wingers and two forwards.

[shefcanary 2,444]

Everything is against us - pundits poor view of our chances, top side like Arse with thier top players suddenly hitting form for them (Gervinho, Giroud), game live on Sky, current poor form, 25% of our fans already wanting manager sacked, discontent over Spurs cup prices.

 

So, we''ll play well and win!

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

[quote user="shefcanary"]

Everything is against us - pundits poor view of our chances, top side like Arse with thier top players suddenly hitting form for them (Gervinho, Giroud), game live on Sky, current poor form, 25% of our fans already wanting manager sacked, discontent over Spurs cup prices.

 

So, we''ll play well and win!

[/quote]

 

The pundits will always view our chances poorly Shefc. irrespective of the other factors you mentioned. We must attempt to put that to our advantage, as we did on occasions last season, and attempt to catch  Arsenal unawares.

 

I must pick you up on your 25% of supporters wanting the Hoots sacked remark. I realise it is a guestimate, but I feel it is well wide of the mark. It might seem the case from reading this Board at times but of the half a dozen or so Canaries I converse with regularly these days, none want him out.

 

Most are alarmed, but feel that it is far too premature for such an extreme and expensive an option to be considered.

 

It''s too early for a poll, but I should imagine the majority who use this Board, one way or another, would not want him sacked just now.

[shefcanary 2,444]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"][quote user="shefcanary"]

Everything is against us - pundits poor view of our chances, top side like Arse with thier top players suddenly hitting form for them (Gervinho, Giroud), game live on Sky, current poor form, 25% of our fans already wanting manager sacked, discontent over Spurs cup prices.

 

So, we''ll play well and win!

[/quote]

 

The pundits will always view our chances poorly Shefc. irrespective of the other factors you mentioned. We must attempt to put that to our advantage, as we did on occasions last season, and attempt to catch  Arsenal unawares.

 

I must pick you up on your 25% of supporters wanting the Hoots sacked remark. I realise it is a guestimate, but I feel it is well wide of the mark. It might seem the case from reading this Board at times but of the half a dozen or so Canaries I converse with regularly these days, none want him out.

 

Most are alarmed, but feel that it is far too premature for such an extreme and expensive an option to be considered.

 

It''s too early for a poll, but I should imagine the majority who use this Board, one way or another, would not want him sacked just now.

[/quote]

 

Broady - I made the massive mistake of not adding a [;)] after the discussion about supporters wanting Hughton out!  Still think we can beat The Arse though!!