35K Capacity Stadium

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Sounds promising. If we stay in the Premiership for 3 years the board are planning to redevelop/rebuild the City Stand. That stand would be increased from the present 4,400 seats to a 10,000 seater.

The only trouble is their figures don''t tally: 27k capacity now; add on another 5,600 with a bigger City stand and the total comes to 32,600. Who can''t do basic arithmetic? I often find that newspaper figures don''t make any sense.

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

35,000 is obviously a figure they''re aiming at long-term with the City stand the obvious re-development and 10,000 seems about right considering the Jarrold is 8,000. Further re-development would then be considered down the line I assume.

[Bill 1,788]

"The only trouble is their figures don''t tally"

eh ?

''Mr Bowkett said the main focus of that work would be redeveloping the City Stand from 4,400 to 10,000 seats''

The clue is the words ''the main focus''.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="Canary_on_the Trent"]35,000 is obviously a figure they''re aiming at long-term with the City stand the obvious re-development and 10,000 seems about right considering the Jarrold is 8,000. Further re-development would then be considered down the line I assume.[/quote]

The City Stand will certainly be pretty impressive at that kind of size. Strange to think that if this plan comes to fruition, Carrow Road will have a similar capacity to Old Trafford the last time I went there, in about 1984. Old Trafford seemed big back then. Also I think Highbury was only about 38k capacity.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="City1st"]"The only trouble is their figures don''t tally" eh ? ''Mr Bowkett said the main focus of that work would be redeveloping the City Stand from 4,400 to 10,000 seats'' The clue is the words ''the main focus''.[/quote]

Ok, Mr pedantic!

[GMF 1,010]

Remember there is the option to put another tier on the Jarrold Stand!

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

The Jarrold Stand doesn''t include corners so 10,000 does seem about right if it joins up with the Barclay and River ends.

[rondy 0]

3 years?!I know we dont want to get ahead of ourselves here, and at the moment every available spare penny should be given to Lambert to strengthen the squad, but I''m pretty sure I read not so long ago that work would begin on replacing the City Stand  as and when it looked like we''d survived our 2nd year back in the prem - did I dream that?Great news though, a Carrow Rd with a new double tier City Stand and double tiered corner infills at the Barclay and river Ends would be awesome.. Then all that would be left is to knock down the hotel and join the Jarrold to the Barclay (which should be knocked down and made into one single tiered kop) but I guess that''s for another day..

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="Mike Hunt"]

Sounds promising. If we stay in the Premiership for 3 years the board are planning to redevelop/rebuild the City Stand. That stand would be increased from the present 4,400 seats to a 10,000 seater.

The only trouble is their figures don''t tally: 27k capacity now; add on another 5,600 with a bigger City stand and the total comes to 32,600. Who can''t do basic arithmetic? I often find that newspaper figures don''t make any sense.

[/quote]

Add another 4,000 to the Jarrold stand in due course and it gets NCFC over the 35,000 target.

As for newspaper figures, I am waiting to see how they write about the Accounts.

 

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

3 years of Premier League football is avoiding relegation twice. As I said still a long way off.

[Tangible Fixed Assets anyone? 0]

[quote user="rondy"]3 years?!

.. Then all that would be left is to knock down the hotel and join the Jarrold to the Barclay (which should be knocked down and made into one single tiered kop) but I guess that''s for another day..


[/quote]

Cant see that happening for a very long time, if ever.

City stand first, upper Jarrold stand second.

[rondy 0]

Cant see that happening for a very long time, if ever.

City stand first, upper Jarrold stand second.

Neither do I - was ment tongue in cheek really.. And they''ll nerver ever knock down that shit hotel either, but how frickin'' amazing would a single tier kop style Barclay stand with a capacity of 8-10,000 be!

[curly_whirly_tipz 0]

Great to see the club looking ahead. 3 years is a long way off tho.... Still onwards and upwards! OTBC!

[Largey 0]

I know this was discussed many times before on here, but am I right in thinking that the foundations and/or design of the Jarrold Stand meant that we couldn''t add a second tier onto it? Or was that just questioned?

[star_manic 0]

my memory is the other way. it was built so that a second tier could be added at a later date, which was the sensible way to do it.

[Bill 1,788]

"Ok, Mr pedantic!"

you are confusing pedantry with the blinding obvious

[Dave 0]

I''ve heard the possibility of removing and rebuilding the barclay and n&p roofs to remove the pillars and while they are at it adding a few rows of seats

[Iwan! 0]

I would love a new City Stand and capacity of 35k -the stadium would be modern but tight to the pitch and retain the atmosphere.  My concern is that the current pricing policy means that we would never fill it.   Even if the next TV rights deals make it harder for pubs to show 3pm kick offs it still remains that prices are beyond many casual fans.  I hope this is weighed up by the Club as the thought of 35k inside Carrow Road is something to dream about

[Canary_on_the Trent 0]

I doubt if we had a 35,000 capacity, the current pricing structure would be in place.

When you have 21,000 season ticket holders and up to 2,400 away fans then the remaining 3,000 tickets are going to be expensive. However if there were up to 10,000 available per match then supply and demand says the price will fall a little.

[Bill 1,788]

" ........ the thought of 35k inside Carrow Road is something to dream about "

Or to be fondly remembered

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Most football clubs have consistent attendances nowadays but back when 35,000 is fondly remembered our gates fluctuated from13,000 to 35,000 in the same season depending on the opposition and how our results were going!

 

 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

This vision of the future of a 35,000 capacity Carrow Road when finances allow, is an old chestnut that goes back to the Neil Doncaster era!

I think in the Premiership we could average over 30,000 and certainly fill a 35,000 Carrow Road against the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea,  the Derby against Ips*it and for games where issues are decided on the day like big Cup games (if we ever have a good cup run ever again!!) and promotion/relegation deciders.

 

Certainly crowds since the Worthy era back this up. To average just under 25,000 (24700) in the 3rd Division 2 seasons ago was an amazing statistic that has gone under the radar cause we''re "Little backwater club Norwich" in the eyes of more than a few outside East Anglia!

 

This season I think its likely we won''t see a League crowd under 26,000 this season. To get over 26,000 on a Monday night for a game live on SKY (and in many bars around the City) is very impressive and even surprised myself!

 

Casual prices for home games are expensive because the demand far outstrips the 26,600 supply. I think they are excessive but the club keeps almost/selling out home ends  so the club aren''t going to drop prices. Mcnally and CO have said in the past that if the capacity was increased and the club were not selling out then prices would go down. This same supply and demand theory is the reason that poorly supported North Westerner Premiership clubs Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan have cheap tickets!

 

I believe the club are leaning towards knocking the current City stand down and replacing with a newer, bigger version rather than the option of building another tier above the current stand.

 

The Jarold stand remains a bit of a mystery cause many say that an upper tier can''t be built above the current structure cause the foundations wern''t built for it. This maybe the case but even if this is true it would still be possible to build another tier at this end but it would be mega expensive. Glasgow Rangers built a 3rd tier on their 1920''s main stand in the late 90''s which prove that stands not designed for upper tiers can have them added!

 

The current Barclay end is not big enough (like the rest of Carrow Road for that matter) and I''m sure it would be possible to replace it with a 9000/10,000 single tier newer version and I''ve heard this mooted before!

 

The River End stand is now 31/32 years old with the poorest facilities in the ground. One day in the next 20-30 years this stand maybe replaced by a bigger/better version with 1000-2000 extra seats. I''m sure their is sufficient room at this end to build a bigger stand?     

Great too see such possitivity from the club!

[birchfest 401]

Though it could be years before it would happen i have to back the idea of the barclay being turned into a hugh ''kop'' style stand, largely because it out of all of the stands has a lot of space behind it.However a mirrior image of the jarrold but slightly larger version for the city stand with large corner infills would be brilliant and really make Carrow Road start to look like a top English stadium... heck we might even be considered for an England friendly oh joy of joys! The most important thing is, with more and more preasure being put on the FA to do with debt in football it could be that clubs in Norwichs potenitaly future position of self sustainabilty could really benifit!

[Bill 1,788]

This is all some way off.

If, as expected, prices drop due to there being more seats being available then there has to be a calculation of the three variables ie

35,000 seats

lower demand

repayment of cost of building any new stand(s)

I think it''s going to be a case of wait and see. A lot can happen in three seasons, as well we know. There is currently a lot of uncertainty over future TV deals, more so given the availability of live TV in pubs.

The simplest solution would be to tweak the price up a bit, thereby choking off demand and yet still increasing revenue. That is the reality of things. Same thing that happens in travel, holidays, concerts etc where there is a limited supply.

[PurpleCanary 6,391]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

This vision of the future of a 35,000 capacity Carrow Road when finances allow, is an old chestnut that goes back to the Neil Doncaster era!

I think in the Premiership we could average over 30,000 and certainly fill a 35,000 Carrow Road against the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea,  the Derby against Ips*it and for games where issues are decided on the day like big Cup games (if we ever have a good cup run ever again!!) and promotion/relegation deciders.

 

Certainly crowds since the Worthy era back this up. To average just under 25,000 (24700) in the 3rd Division 2 seasons ago was an amazing statistic that has gone under the radar cause we''re "Little backwater club Norwich" in the eyes of more than a few outside East Anglia!

 

This season I think its likely we won''t see a League crowd under 26,000 this season. To get over 26,000 on a Monday night for a game live on SKY (and in many bars around the City) is very impressive and even surprised myself!

 

[/quote]

 

I am a long-time sceptic as far as the need for a much bigger stadium is concerned. I am not at all convinced there are seven or eight thousand extra Norwich fans out there, which is what you would need to fill a 35,000-seater stadium. But would be very glad for you to be proved right and me wrong. What worries me, reading this comment from McNally...

 

Mr McNally said the 35,000 figure would “produce a self-sustainable Premier League football club”, but the current capacity of 27,000 would not.

 

 ...is that the club may have fallen victim to the temptation of doing the maths the wrong way round. The correct way is to study attendance figures over decades (which certainly don''t suggest there is a massive untapped market) and factor in the economy and boring stuff like that and work out how many extra fans there really might be. And then build a suitably-sized stadium.

 

The wrong way, which that quotes suggests may be what they have used, is to work what sized stadium would make the club self-supporting and then convince themselves it will be filled.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

How about a huge mirror in front of the hotel to give the reflected impression of a bigger crowd.

Also, more pubs near the ground would be required to meet the demand for live broadcast home games.

The larger City Stand requirement reflects the growing longevity of supporters and in ten years time the number of old boys in there who have yet to meet their demise will grow significantly giving a capacity of 10,000 at an average age of 92 years. For sponsorship, this could be the ''Saga Stand'' with a season ticket giving each holder £5000 life cover without the need for a medical and, if applying at the start of the season, a boxed Parker pen.

The number of assorted biscuits required to service such a stand will in itself present a huge logistical challenge although, having managed with one toilet per 1000 people so far the additional biccie storage space can be met by utilising rest room space.

Doubling up the present capacity may though take ammonia levels above the permitted EU rate so additional ventilation will be required at additional expense.

Additional staff will also be needed as it will not just be enough to have staff serving food and drink but, as recently highlighted, more staff will be needed to ensure patrons can manage to eat and drink whatever they are served so as to receive proper nutrition and hydration.

Having said all that, it might transpire that there are insufficient old codgers to re-fill the new City Stand after construction as many will not survive the temporary displacement to other areas of the ground.

I wonder if the Club have really thought this through?

[Bill 1,788]

" it might transpire that there are insufficient old codgers to re-fill the new City Stand "

more so if they keep turfing them out to put in a smart new player''s bench

[kdncfc 28]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="grantroederdisaster"]

This vision of the future of a 35,000 capacity Carrow Road when finances allow, is an old chestnut that goes back to the Neil Doncaster era!

I think in the Premiership we could average over 30,000 and certainly fill a 35,000 Carrow Road against the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea,  the Derby against Ips*it and for games where issues are decided on the day like big Cup games (if we ever have a good cup run ever again!!) and promotion/relegation deciders.

 

Certainly crowds since the Worthy era back this up. To average just under 25,000 (24700) in the 3rd Division 2 seasons ago was an amazing statistic that has gone under the radar cause we''re "Little backwater club Norwich" in the eyes of more than a few outside East Anglia!

 

This season I think its likely we won''t see a League crowd under 26,000 this season. To get over 26,000 on a Monday night for a game live on SKY (and in many bars around the City) is very impressive and even surprised myself!

 

[/quote]

 

I am a long-time sceptic as far as the need for a much bigger stadium is concerned. I am not at all convinced there are seven or eight thousand extra Norwich fans out there, which is what you would need to fill a 35,000-seater stadium. But would be very glad for you to be proved right and me wrong. What worries me, reading this comment from McNally...

 

Mr McNally said the 35,000 figure would “produce a self-sustainable Premier League football club”, but the current capacity of 27,000 would not.

 

 ...is that the club may have fallen victim to the temptation of doing the maths the wrong way round. The correct way is to study attendance figures over decades (which certainly don''t suggest there is a massive untapped market) and factor in the economy and boring stuff like that and work out how many extra fans there really might be. And then build a suitably-sized stadium.

 

The wrong way, which that quotes suggests may be what they have used, is to work what sized stadium would make the club self-supporting and then convince themselves it will be filled.

[/quote]So do you think that NCFC only have 26k fans in total then PC? I''d say you could probably times that by at least a dozen if it were possible to do a count. I don''t think you''d fill a 35k stadium every week but would certainly fill it on several occasions in the Prem and there''d be a few other games around the 30k mark if the price was right.

[crabbycanary 2]

LOL Rudolph! Although I do wonder how your mind works, was there alcohol to factorise in to your way of thinking?

Is the expansion of the odd row of seats a ''toe in the water'' from the Club to (safely) see how demand meets supply?

I think 35K is about the right figure to be banded about at this stage. I am sure Carrow Road probably couldn''t take larger than that anyway, so if major Prem and European success follows, we would have to move anyway

[Old Shuck 291]

Well the Holiday Inn won''t come down, but the view of the pitch from those rooms will be lost!

And it isn''t a free viewing either, the Hotel adds about £60-£70 to the nightly tariff for a pitchview room if you happen to be staying there when there''s a game on! Wasn''t quite so much last season, but figures, Championship and all that.

But exciting news. Obviously if we go down this season then it really will become a longer term issue again, even if we came straight back up, the third consecutive season of Prem football wouldn''t be until the end of the 2015/16 season and I would think that domestic football will have changed in this country so much by then, that we and every other league club will be reviewing its options and future.

So it might be that the main obstacle to a bigger ground is as much the game in general as our own status and relative success.