Grant Holt - Cheat!

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

Have to say that even from a distance away it looked like a dive, we all felt that Holt appeared to stop/slow his run down, look over his shoulder for the tackle and then fell to the floor....

[Haggerdoo 6]

[quote user="hogesar"]I hate our fans. Are leading talisman, our captain and our top scorer goes down in the area after contact and everyone calls him a cheat. I know a lot of us norfolk folk like to live in our own little bubbles but if you spend anytime watching a decent forward play in this league or any other, you would know they would do exactly the same. Watching the replay there''s contact, if he feels he''s going to lose his footing, or not get to the ball in time then modern day football, whether you like it or not, suggests going down is the best alternative.[/quote]

He should have stayed on his feet and focussed on whacking the ball past the keeper but unfortunately Holt''s mind doesn''t work that way.

Too often he''s cheating or whinging at the ref - he may be our captain and top goalscorer, but his reputation for cheating and diving is taking the shine off the positive aspects of his game.

[ca 1]

Problem is now how is the ref if he isn''t close by meant to know when there''s contact and when he''s diving ??

[Snakepit Lass 0]

Also on another note, it looked like that the pen did go over the line!

[jarroldstander 0]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Have to say that even from a distance away it looked like a dive, we all felt that Holt appeared to stop/slow his run down, look over his shoulder for the tackle and then fell to the floor....[/quote]

 

This is exactly what happened.

 

[The Great Drinkell 50]

[quote user="Snakepit Lass"]Also on another note, it looked like that the pen did go over the line![/quote]

It did SL the 6 yard line ... but only just [:$]

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="paul moy"]

Neil Adams during commentary and on seeing the replay said it was a dive and that he deserved a booking. That''s good enough for me.

[/quote]

 

Why?

[/quote]

... because I trust his judgement as an ex-pro and I know of Holt''s reputation.

 

 

 

[hogesar 9,690]

[quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="hogesar"]I hate our fans. Are leading talisman, our captain and our top scorer goes down in the area after contact and everyone calls him a cheat. I know a lot of us norfolk folk like to live in our own little bubbles but if you spend anytime watching a decent forward play in this league or any other, you would know they would do exactly the same. Watching the replay there''s contact, if he feels he''s going to lose his footing, or not get to the ball in time then modern day football, whether you like it or not, suggests going down is the best alternative.[/quote]

 

... but going down when you can stay up is cheating, regardless of who is doing it. I admire Grant but this is a facet of football that I dislike intensely, and the fact that he is our talisman cannot change that fact. Once a team gets a reputation it is very difficult to shake off and unfortunately we are now tainted and Grant needs to concentrate on scoring goals rather than trying to con penalties out of the ref.  

[/quote]DO YOU NOT THINK THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO?I don''t know how much more simple i can, or he can make it in his interview. If he felt he could score, and if he WASN''T pushed, tripped or whatever, he wouldnt have went down!The fact is, whether you like it or not, Grant felt contact, clearly felt he wasn''t going to go score, get to the ball or whatever, and therefore went down. Like any other good striker in this league or any other would do now! Everyone hate''s ''cheating'' but why should we be the team to set the standard? How many times have we been a team that''s far too honest for our own good? Not going down etc, not playing dirty. It''s one of many reasons we got relegated. Look at Preston, fouling our players, time wasting, and they got a point away from home and will be delighted.I think it was Blackpool, who were told they were too honest by a referee, and that they need to go down more in the box when they feel they''ve been fouled. The way referees work now, pretty much means that if a player gets the wrong side of you in the box, you can''t make contact. All defenders know this is the sad truth. Preston defender made contact - Holt went down. In my eyes, it''s not pretty but it''s fair enough, because the same has happened to us on countless occasions.Now, the title of this thread is absolutely ridiculous too. You''re labelling a Holt a full-blown cheat based on this one instance.Don''t lie and pretend you''re basing it on countless others because 99% have said before this one so-called dive that he''s playing for the foul, he''s taking advantage of defenders fouling him unnecessarily and taking advantage of poor referee''s.I know our fans can be our own worst enemy sometimes, but calling our captain, our leading goalscorer, our leading goalscorer last year, the player that scored a hattrick against Ipshit; a cheat. It''s disgusting and is completely unfair on a player that has been absolutely fantastic for us.

[hogesar 9,690]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="paul moy"]

Neil Adams during commentary and on seeing the replay said it was a dive and that he deserved a booking. That''s good enough for me.

[/quote]

 

Why?

[/quote]

... because I trust his judgement as an ex-pro and I know of Holt''s reputation.

 [/quote]

I''m pretty sure on canary call he said Holt didn''t deserve a yellow card because there was some contact....

Can anyone confirm?

Oh, and Lamberts an ex-pro, a fantastic manager and doesn''t appear to have told Holt to stop his style of play..

[paul moy 235]

 

Hogesar stated :

''The fact is, whether you like it or not, Grant felt contact, clearly felt he wasn''t going to go score, get to the ball or whatever, and therefore went down. Like any other good striker in this league or any other would do now! ''

 

Hogesar, that is cheating...don''t you understand that ?  Just because others do it does not mean we have to follow suit...two wrongs don''t make a right. I don''t want Norwich to win in this way because I can get no satisfaction from that. We are good enough to win without resorting to underhand tactics and I won''t defend cheating in any walk of life. 

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Webbo118"][quote user="paul moy"]

Neil Adams during commentary and on seeing the replay said it was a dive and that he deserved a booking. That''s good enough for me.

[/quote]

 

Why?

[/quote]

... because I trust his judgement as an ex-pro and I know of Holt''s reputation.

 [/quote]

I''m pretty sure on canary call he said Holt didn''t deserve a yellow card because there was some contact....

Can anyone confirm?

Oh, and Lamberts an ex-pro, a fantastic manager and doesn''t appear to have told Holt to stop his style of play..

[/quote]

... but the argument was over whether Holt dived wasn''t it ? Whether there was contact or not is irrelevant if he could have remained on his feet.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Mr Holt is an honourable man, I have spoken with him on a number of occasions and let me reassure you all that he it would never cheat, the very thought of it!!!!

[hogesar 9,690]

[quote user="paul moy"]

 

Hogesar stated :

''The fact is, whether you like it or not, Grant felt contact, clearly felt he wasn''t going to go score, get to the ball or whatever, and therefore went down. Like any other good striker in this league or any other would do now! ''

 

Hogesar, that is cheating...don''t you understand that ?  Just because others do it does not mean we have to follow suit...two wrongs don''t make a right. I don''t want Norwich to win in this way because I can get no satisfaction from that. We are good enough to win without resorting to underhand tactics and I won''t defend cheating in any walk of life. 

[/quote]But cheating, by very definition, would be something very against the norm, right? Otherwise it''s just part of the game. And yes, others do do it, and no, we don''t have to follow suit. But we haven''t followed suit for a good while now, and we ended up getting relegated. Unfortunately, you''re basically saying you don''t enjoy football anymore. Which is all good and well.Are you saying then, that had Holt got that penalty, we scored, we won instead of drew. We finish second, by 2 points. You would get no satisfaction? If that''s so, football is probably the wrong sport for you now.It may not be the most relative comment, but one of the worlds best players at Man United and now Real Madrid went down upon the smallest of touches. He wins free kicks, penalty''s, scores lots of goals, he wins lots of games. People don''t like him, but he''s one of the worlds best players.And for the record, i don''t think Holt ''dived''. I''ll go by what the man himself says, he may have lost his footing due to being pushed/tripped and exaggurated the fall, to make it clear to the ref. Nothing wrong with that.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

He''s not the first and won''t be the last, don''t know why people are making such a big deal, happens in footballing clubs around the globe at every level and anyone who thinks differently is clearly living on another planet. [:D]

Would I call any of our players cheats?  Nope.

Would I say he was trying to take advantage of the situation?  Yes.

Calling our best striker (and lets face it our only proven striker) a cheat, i''ve heard it all now.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Well said, it takes a woman to talk some sence.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="canarygirl"]Well said, it takes a woman to talk some sence.[/quote]

We all talk sense at some point.  I feel very disappointed to see some posters calling him a cheat.  I wonder if he''d have scored a hatful and won us 3 points if this thread would even exsist?

Talk about fickle.

[hogesar 9,690]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

He''s not the first and won''t be the last, don''t know why people are making such a big deal, happens in footballing clubs around the globe at every level and anyone who thinks differently is clearly living on another planet. [:D]

Would I call any of our players cheats?  Nope.

Would I say he was trying to take advantage of the situation?  Yes.

Calling our best striker (and lets face it our only proven striker) a cheat, i''ve heard it all now.

[/quote]Thankyou WAY.Alot of men think women know fuck all about football, but compared to the likes of Nana and Paul Moy here, you''re heads and shoulders above them!

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]I wonder if he''d have scored a hatful and won us 3 points if this thread would even exsist?[/quote]

If he still dived like he did it would have been mentioned. But to dive as poor as he did he deserved the yellow he got, and if he was trying to con the referee it is cheating!!

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

He''s not the first and won''t be the last, don''t know why people are making such a big deal, happens in footballing clubs around the globe at every level and anyone who thinks differently is clearly living on another planet. [:D]

Would I call any of our players cheats?  Nope.

Would I say he was trying to take advantage of the situation?  Yes.

Calling our best striker (and lets face it our only proven striker) a cheat, i''ve heard it all now.

[/quote]

Thankyou WAY.

Alot of men think women know fuck all about football, but compared to the likes of Nana and Paul Moy here, you''re heads and shoulders above them!
[/quote]

 

Thank you [:)]

I just can''t get my head around why they would call him a cheat?  Of course like any other football player, if he sees an opportunity to get a free kick/penalty then he''s going to go for it.  Even watching kids play football, they take advantage of any situation, and to be honest if I were in their or Holts shoes I would do exactly the same.

We can all critisise, but constructively.

I appreciate no one is above critisism, nor should they be, but to call one of our own a cheat leaves me staggered.

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="I am a Banana"]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]I wonder if he''d have scored a hatful and won us 3 points if this thread would even exsist?[/quote]

If he still dived like he did it would have been mentioned. But to dive as poor as he did he deserved the yellow he got, and if he was trying to con the referee it is cheating!!

[/quote]

He didn''t exactly dive did he?  He fell over easily, he was already falling when the bloke touched him.  That IMHO is called trying to take advantage of the situation, nothing else.

 

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]I wonder if he''d have scored a hatful and won us 3 points if this thread would even exsist?[/quote]

If he still dived like he did it would have been mentioned. But to dive as poor as he did he deserved the yellow he got, and if he was trying to con the referee it is cheating!!

[/quote]

He didn''t exactly dive did he?  He fell over easily, he was already falling when the bloke touched him.  That IMHO is called trying to take advantage of the situation, nothing else.

 

[/quote]

for me thats diving.

[hogesar 9,690]

[quote user="I am a Banana"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]I wonder if he''d have scored a hatful and won us 3 points if this thread would even exsist?[/quote]

If he still dived like he did it would have been mentioned. But to dive as poor as he did he deserved the yellow he got, and if he was trying to con the referee it is cheating!!

[/quote]

He didn''t exactly dive did he?  He fell over easily, he was already falling when the bloke touched him.  That IMHO is called trying to take advantage of the situation, nothing else.

 

[/quote]

for me thats diving.

[/quote]Yes, but like every other opinon or thought you have, it''s wrong.

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="I am a Banana"][quote user="WeAreYellows49"][quote user="I am a Banana"]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]I wonder if he''d have scored a hatful and won us 3 points if this thread would even exsist?[/quote]

If he still dived like he did it would have been mentioned. But to dive as poor as he did he deserved the yellow he got, and if he was trying to con the referee it is cheating!!

[/quote]

He didn''t exactly dive did he?  He fell over easily, he was already falling when the bloke touched him.  That IMHO is called trying to take advantage of the situation, nothing else.

 

[/quote]

for me thats diving.

[/quote]

Yes, but like every other opinon or thought you have, it''s wrong.
[/quote]

If he was already falling and then went looking for a touch he was diving and looking for contact so he could claim the penalty. The referee was 100% right to book holt!

[paul moy 235]

I''m simply amazed at the number of folks here that are defending a player diving.  It saddens me.

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]I''m simply amazed at the number of folks here that are defending a player diving.  It saddens me.[/quote]

Its beacuse he is team captain i think. Had it been Jackson, Wilbry, or anyother striker they would all agree im sure!

[Gingerpele 0]

You watched the replay paul moy?

[. 0]

I''m sure Grant Holt will be delighted to hear that his own ''fans'' are calling him a cheat.My how Delia Smith has dumbed this club down to it''s absolute core.Pathetic.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''m sure Grant Holt will be delighted to hear that his own ''fans'' are calling him a cheat.

My how Delia Smith has dumbed this club down to it''s absolute core.

Pathetic.

 

[/quote]Of course it''s Delia''s fault he fell over. Obvious! [:S]

[hogesar 9,690]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''m sure Grant Holt will be delighted to hear that his own ''fans'' are calling him a cheat.My how Delia Smith has dumbed this club down to it''s absolute core.Pathetic.[/quote]Well, i agree with the first and last lines....[:)]

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]I''m sure Grant Holt will be delighted to hear that his own ''fans'' are calling him a cheat.

My how Delia Smith has dumbed this club down to it''s absolute core.

Pathetic.
[/quote]

Were that we still had Chase in charge, when football fans knew what the game was about and how to support their local side.  This bed-wetting schoolboy "Norwich players cheat" faction makes me queasy.  Every other club does it but we''re not allowed to... little old Norwich indeed, dear oh dear.  Shame on youi all.