The Binners debt rises to £37m

[Bexley 0]

That''s as at end of June before some of their latest signings.

My god they better hope Evans doesn''t get bored/fed up of pouring money down the drain.

 http://www.twtd.co.uk/news.php?storyid=15501

[B-ru 0]

OUCH!!

[Yelloow Since 72 56]

With the debt of £37.5m, I am impressed the effort to deal with it: "While player costs have increased significantly, the club saved £300,000 on administrative expenses during 2008/09".

[singing canary 0]

hopefully followed by relegation .. thus causing big fianancial trouble ... what goes round comes round .we can only hope.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="Bexley"]

That''s as at end of June before some of their latest signings.

My god they better hope Evans doesn''t get bored/fed up of pouring money down the drain.

 http://www.twtd.co.uk/news.php?storyid=15501

[/quote]But if the debt is owed to his company, isn''t he making more interest out of them by pouring money down the drain ?

[Mike 68]

• Town made an operating loss of £10.32 million in the financial year ending June 2009. 

• During the year to June 2009, player and coaching staff costs rose from £8.34 million in 2007/08 to £11.88 million, as a percentage of turnover that’s a rise from 52.7% to 81.1%.

• Overall staff costs are up to £15.94 million from £12.57 million, which represents 108.8% of the club’s annual turnover compared with 79.5% a year ago.

• Turnover was down from £15.8 million in 2007/08 to £14.7 million 2008/09 

• commercial income down from £6.94 million in 2007/08 to £6.01 million

• At 30 June 2009 the club had…total interest-bearing debt of £35.7 million (intra-group debt £33.7 million, external debt £2 million).

• “The club remains dependent on ongoing financing by the Marcus Evans Group (MEG).

• MEG has since provided a further £6.5 million in loans to the club.”

Sounds like a long term sustainable business........NOT!

[WeAreYellows49 0]

Blimey, I would rather be in our position than theirs.  It''s not as if they are are pushing for promotion anytime soon.

[norfolkchance1 0]

And all after waving £20 notes at our fans.

[Bovril 264]

The situation really is a joke and represents everything that is wrong with football at the moment regarding the financial side, putting any biasist sides a view for the sake of this post...

• Here we have a club that was not long ago in SERIOUS financial difficulties, almost going completely bust, relying on the fact a norfolk-based company took 5p in every £1 for what it was owed, with the majority of other ''investors'' left completely out of pocket
• With the then numerous cases of clubs going into/close to administration the football league allow MEG to come in and effectively secure a loan against the assets in the hope that promotion might one day lead to a quick buck being made, which it won''t.

When is the FA, Premier League and Football league going to say enough is enough? 99% of clubs run EVERY year a loss of millions upon millions of pounds, who is paying for this? when are they going to learn from the ITV collapse..there has to be a sustaniable model.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Nobody will ever answer the question that has been repeated on this board for a while now.. How much do the binners owe? Interest bearing debt is an interesting phrase but what does it mean? What is the binners total debt? Anyone want to have a stab at that one?

I''ve seen it said on here so many times in the last couple of years - Fans would rather be them than us[*-)] Rather have Evans than Delia [*-)] If the worst happened to them this season it will be interesting to see if "Marcus'' football club" cope as well as "Delia''s football club".

 

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="The Lord"]The situation really is a joke and represents everything that is wrong with football at the moment regarding the financial side, putting any biasist sides a view for the sake of this post...

• Here we have a club that was not long ago in SERIOUS financial difficulties, almost going completely bust, relying on the fact a norfolk-based company took 5p in every £1 for what it was owed, with the majority of other ''investors'' left completely out of pocket
• With the then numerous cases of clubs going into/close to administration the football league allow MEG to come in and effectively secure a loan against the assets in the hope that promotion might one day lead to a quick buck being made, which it won''t.

When is the FA, Premier League and Football league going to say enough is enough? 99% of clubs run EVERY year a loss of millions upon millions of pounds, who is paying for this? when are they going to learn from the ITV collapse..there has to be a sustaniable model.[/quote]Couldnt agree more. Sooner or later football as a whole is going to be in serious trouble. Again putting aside any bias towards our Suffolk friends, its amazing how a club who went into administration only a few years ago could now be in this much debt.

[Dave Backham 0]

Although their ''book'' debt is huge there''s only £2m in external debt, the rest is ''owed'' to Marcus Evans Group companies, so as long as Marcus Evans doesn''t mind them owing his group of companies money then they''re not likely to be pressured by external factors into having to sell any assets if the loans get called in. And presumably those debts have to be cleared or written off if anyone wants to take over the club.

Aren''t we in a similar position in that the majority of our debts are also ''owed'' to our directors in the form of loans? Only don''t we owe a lot more than £2m in external debts? And isn''t one of the conditions of Delia and Michael to sell their stake in the club that they get their loans repaid in full - i.e. that they get their ''loaned'' money back?

What I don''t understand is how this situation - having huge debts or loans - avoids the company being declared ''technically'' insolvent. It seems that a huge number of football clubs are running with a debt overhead, and if you sold off all the assets of their company it wouldn''t clear the debts - so isn''t everyone effectively trading illegally?

Dave.

 

[CanaryPurple 0]

[quote user="Dave Backham"]

Aren''t we in a similar position in that the majority of our debts are also ''owed'' to our directors in the form of loans?

 

[/quote]In our case the majority of our debt is owed to outside lenders.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

I doubt we are in a similar situation at all. I''m no financial expert but as far as I''m aware our debt doesn''t exceed the value of our assets. I reckon the reason Norwich Union were prepared to write off so much of their debt was because they had no hope of getting it back. Administartion would have meant 5p in the pound. Marcus Evans bought the debt for more than that, rumoured 20p in the pound, so was a good deal for them.

I believe our football club is just about sustainable but would need real investment to progress in todays game. What we don''t need is more debt. Others are relying on more and more debt. If anyone believes these rich owners are actually giving their fortunes to the football clubs they own are in cloud cuckoo land. It can''t go on and has to end in tears.

 

 

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="blahblahblah"][quote user="Bexley"]

That''s as at end of June before some of their latest signings.

My god they better hope Evans doesn''t get bored/fed up of pouring money down the drain.

 http://www.twtd.co.uk/news.php?storyid=15501

[/quote]

But if the debt is owed to his company, isn''t he making more interest out of them by pouring money down the drain ?
[/quote]

thats exactly it! evans wants Ipswich to spend money like water because he will make more out of it.... he must be rubbbing his hands at this news.

of course the binner fans think they are loaded... oh dear oh dear!

[shefcanary 2,955]

[quote user="Dave Backham"]

Although their ''book'' debt is huge there''s only £2m in external debt, the rest is ''owed'' to Marcus Evans Group companies, so as long as Marcus Evans doesn''t mind them owing his group of companies money then they''re not likely to be pressured by external factors into having to sell any assets if the loans get called in. And presumably those debts have to be cleared or written off if anyone wants to take over the club.

Aren''t we in a similar position in that the majority of our debts are also ''owed'' to our directors in the form of loans? Only don''t we owe a lot more than £2m in external debts? And isn''t one of the conditions of Delia and Michael to sell their stake in the club that they get their loans repaid in full - i.e. that they get their ''loaned'' money back?

What I don''t understand is how this situation - having huge debts or loans - avoids the company being declared ''technically'' insolvent. It seems that a huge number of football clubs are running with a debt overhead, and if you sold off all the assets of their company it wouldn''t clear the debts - so isn''t everyone effectively trading illegally?

Dave.

 

[/quote]

As long as Evans signs a letter saying that he will ensure the Binners contniue to pay their debts as they fall due (i.e, players wages every month) and his pet accountant can draw up a cash flow that demonstrates this (with the big line - additional loan from MEG at the top) then the accounts get signed off. However when even Palace start to fail to do that (their players have apparently been paid late twice in the past six months - hardly a going concern) and we all know what a mess Pompey were in, with the REcession not yet revved up (if you think things are bad now, wait for two years) it can''t be long before a few clubs fall and well run clubs start to climb the league by default!

[ca 1]

[quote user="Dave Backham"]

Although their ''book'' debt is huge there''s only £2m in external debt, the rest is ''owed'' to Marcus Evans Group companies, so as long as Marcus Evans doesn''t mind them owing his group of companies money then they''re not likely to be pressured by external factors into having to sell any assets if the loans get called in. And presumably those debts have to be cleared or written off if anyone wants to take over the club.[/quote]

 

I''m reluctant to post in any more Ipswich threads at the risk of being told I have a soft spot for them but I''ll take the risk [:)]

As Dave points out their £36m plus debt is owed to the Marcus Evans Group not anyone external, Marcus Evans is worth £400m according to the Rich list April 2009 so whilst he remains committed to them( think he said its a 5yr plan with a 5yr sponsorship) surely they don''t have a problem.

If he decides in the next few years to bail out then won''t he just put the club up for sale and whoever buys it will buy the debt, just like any buyer for our club will have to do or am I missing something?

[Wembley_Canary 0]

Oh dear, someone should really go tell these poor deluded binners..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL8honNpOr0&feature=related 

lol

 

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

or am I missing something?

 

massively, but you are moving in the right direction

sadly it took the binners admittance of the huge debts for you see any wrong

[GMF 1,010]

Firstly, let''s not forget that our accounts for 2008-09 have yet to be released, so let''s not get too smug at the position of "that lot down the road" as our situation is unlikely to be much better.

Secondly, when they went into administration, it was the private creditors who were ripped off with 5p in the £, not everyone, and the loans remained largely untouched.

Thirdly, when ME Group acquired the debt from the orignal lenders, it was heavily discounted, rumoured to be at 20p in the £. However, unless the ME Group has renegotiated the repayments schedule with ITFC, the repayments still remain due in full from the Club.

Seems like there''s some fancy accounting work going on here, presumably perfectly legal, but it strikes me that ME is a hard nosed business man, rather than a true lover of all things ITFC. Therefore, whilst he may appear remarkably generous with his various loans and cash injections, it strikes me as highly likely that the debt repayments almost certainly exceed any injections and this guy is making a handsome profit out of this little venture!

If anyone cares to show me otherwise, I''m more than willing to be educated accordingly.

[ca 1]

[quote user="City1st"]

massively, but you are moving in the right direction

sadly it took the binners admittance of the huge debts for you see any wrong

[/quote]

 

But I said when asked by Nutty in the other thread that I thought their debts were around £40m plus loans so what did I see wrong?

[Bill 1,788]

"But I said when asked by Nutty in the other thread that I thought their debts were around £40m plus loans so what did I see wrong?"

Not quite true, your actual words were -

"I don''t know how much Ipswich owe and my Ipswich friends get fed up with me asking them  but what we do know is that they owed £32m when he bought them "

 

Though that hadn''t stopped you from attacking me earlier by stating -

"but some of the facts you posted were so incorrect so I was merely corrected you"

Incorrect ? You didn''t even know yourself, as with this -

" They spent around 6 million in the summer...

They spent £8million in the summer bringing in 8 perm players plus received  £4m for a 5yr sponsorship deal and look likely to bring in a few more players in Jan."

 

What was wrong that you didn''t see (and I''m not sure if you still do) is that the binners are in a precarious position having got themselves into that state by their constant living beyond their means, welshing on debts and generally spending what they don''t have.

I think these latest set of figures amply demostrate that point.

"Then again I wonder how many of us wish we were at the bottom of the Championship with two thirds of the season to go and money to spend in Jan instead of being in League 1and broke Nutty?"

To post up such rubbish as that might make many quetion where your true loyalties lie. None of your absurd claims in defence of the binners have been backed up by any evidence and most have now been disproved by the latest revelations from our skint neighbours.

As to us, NCFC isn''t broke. It pays it''s debts and was recently able to bring in a quality chief executive, pay off Gunn''s contract and take on the liabilities of Lambert''s new and previous contracts. Just because we are not scrounging off others doesn''t mean we are broke. Maybe that expression should be directed at those who have to keep borrowing and not repaying those loans.

There is no evidence that the binners have any money to spend in January. As I have stated before they would be bringing in players NOW (if they had any available money) to ensure that in May they don''t look back and regret the points they dropped in the Autumn of 2009. Odd how the club that is, as you claim, broke is automatically looking for a loanee when ONE position is vacant. Contrast the two. Ask yourself which club is showing ambition and which club appears to have the ability to pursue that ambition.

And it certainly isn''t the cheating, lowlife down the A140