THE MAN: How can a 'beautiful game' be so cruel?

[Pete Raven 276]

http://new.pinkun.com/content/columns/ManStands.aspx

[O.T.B.C 1]

Good article I feel. I agree with most of this.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

He can''t be the man in the stands if hes sticking up for Roedernowhere!

 

While its obvious we''ve got financial constraints, using it as an excuse for Roedernowheres inept management is wrong!

[O.T.B.C 1]

So you know that every single fan wants GR out? Didn''t think so. He wasn''t sticking up for him, he was pointing out the facts and what he has had.

[pennywise 0]

semi ?  the worst sporting performance since eddie the eagle  ? quality  lol [:D]

[|BA 0]

Agree with the criticism of the players, not just ours but in general.

As for biting off Cullums hand I''d rather of whacked him over the head...if he''d made an offer... which formally he never did....allegedly....apparently.....said a friend who knows a couple of players LOL

Who is it keeps saying that?

[Mister Chops 7]

"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill

being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players

to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the

business. And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."Despicable last sentence.

[Puzzy magnet 0]

So how long did O''Neill hang around here for then?

Face it, any really successful managers we have had in the past have left for "better" things.

[ron obvious 1,711]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill

being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players

to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the

business. And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."Despicable last sentence.[/quote]Why is it despicable?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill

being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players

to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the

business. And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."Despicable last sentence.[/quote]Why is it despicable?[/quote]Do you really need me to explain?  Okay.  It''s because the author of the column is saying that Norwich will not get a manager capable of consistently motivating players to produce good performances.  "Little old Norwich" syndrome again.The problem is more that our "selection panel" couldn''t pick a winner in a one-horse race.

[Puzzy magnet 0]

Please enlighten me as to which successful manager the board could have appointed in October last year?

[fleggy 0]

I had a look at that ski jump in Calgary that Eddie went down.  O.K. he didn''t trouble the leaders but it took a hell of a lot of nerve to go up there never mind sliding down on skis. So I don''t think that was an ''inept'' performance.  City players last week (and this) on the other hand..............!!

[Budapest Canary 154]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the business.

And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."


Despicable last sentence.
[/quote]

Why is it despicable?
[/quote]

Do you really need me to explain?  Okay.  It''s because the author of the column is saying that Norwich will not get a manager capable of consistently motivating players to produce good performances.  "Little old Norwich" syndrome again.

The problem is more that our "selection panel" couldn''t pick a winner in a one-horse race.
[/quote]

It''s more like "little old Newcastle" syndrome: a one-team city where football is overrated, and where the fans'' ego is a little too big to face the actual realities the club faces. Going out in large numbers to protest, is probably worse that not turning up at all. The fact that Lupoli''s name has been chanted apparently worked miracles, maybe more support would do more good...

[ron obvious 1,711]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill

being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players

to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the

business. And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."Despicable last sentence.[/quote]Why is it despicable?[/quote]Do you really need me to explain?  Okay.  It''s because the author of the column is saying that Norwich will not get a manager capable of consistently motivating players to produce good performances.  "Little old Norwich" syndrome again.The problem is more that our "selection panel" couldn''t pick a winner in a one-horse race.[/quote]So it would be ''despicable'' to suggest that Christiano Ronaldo would never come here in this transfer window?I think he''s simply being realistic.There''s always the chance Norwich will turn up a first-class manager, or a top-class player, but they are exteremely unlikely to be recognised as such when they arrive.

[Puzzy magnet 0]

I concur

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill

being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players

to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the

business. And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."Despicable last sentence.[/quote]Why is it despicable?[/quote]Do you really need me to explain?  Okay.  It''s because the author of the column is saying that Norwich will not get a manager capable of consistently motivating players to produce good performances.  "Little old Norwich" syndrome again.The problem is more that our "selection panel" couldn''t pick a winner in a one-horse race.[/quote]So it would be ''despicable'' to suggest that Christiano Ronaldo would never come here in this transfer window?I think he''s simply being realistic.There''s always the chance Norwich will turn up a first-class manager, or a top-class player, but they are exteremely unlikely to be recognised as such when they arrive.[/quote]They could at least however be recognised as "promising", or have a track record of relative success...

[colneycanary 0]

[quote user="Budapest Canary"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the business.

And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."


Despicable last sentence.
[/quote]

Why is it despicable?
[/quote]

Do you really need me to explain?  Okay.  It''s because the author of the column is saying that Norwich will not get a manager capable of consistently motivating players to produce good performances.  "Little old Norwich" syndrome again.

The problem is more that our "selection panel" couldn''t pick a winner in a one-horse race.
[/quote]

It''s more like "little old Newcastle" syndrome: a one-team city where football is overrated, and where the fans'' ego is a little too big to face the actual realities the club faces. Going out in large numbers to protest, is probably worse that not turning up at all. The fact that Lupoli''s name has been chanted apparently worked miracles, maybe more support would do more good...

[/quote]Budapest canary your blaming the current situation on the fans not supporting the team enough? What a load of rubbish, and you really know nothing about football do you? Yesterdays match the 3000 fans who went were in fine voice, but it didn''t do anything to motivate the team into producing 1 shot on goal in the first half.

[The Judge 0]

Far more balanced, thought through and sensible article than the Fan''s Eye piece which is too one sided and anti Roeder - The Man obviously has more of a brain to understand the bigger issues that engulf our club at the moment rather than just the latest symptom of the disease.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="fleggy"]I had a look at that ski jump in Calgary that Eddie went down.  O.K. he didn''t trouble the leaders but it took a hell of a lot of nerve to go up there never mind sliding down on skis. So I don''t think that was an ''inept'' performance.  City players last week (and this) on the other hand..............!![/quote]''The Man'' has clearly snubbed Eddie The Eagle.  The whole point was the taking part.  ''Man in the Stands''  you are a disrespectful tw*t

[Budapest Canary 154]

[quote user="colneycanary"][quote user="Budapest Canary"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Mister Chops"]"Of course, we accept that the great managers - Ferguson and O''Neill being prime examples - are able to continually motivate their players to produce good performances. That is what makes them the best in the business.

And Roeder, bless him, does not seem to have that in his locker. If he did, he would not be managing us."


Despicable last sentence.
[/quote]

Why is it despicable?
[/quote]

Do you really need me to explain?  Okay.  It''s because the author of the column is saying that Norwich will not get a manager capable of consistently motivating players to produce good performances.  "Little old Norwich" syndrome again.

The problem is more that our "selection panel" couldn''t pick a winner in a one-horse race.
[/quote]

It''s more like "little old Newcastle" syndrome: a one-team city where football is overrated, and where the fans'' ego is a little too big to face the actual realities the club faces. Going out in large numbers to protest, is probably worse that not turning up at all. The fact that Lupoli''s name has been chanted apparently worked miracles, maybe more support would do more good...

[/quote]Budapest canary your blaming the current situation on the fans not supporting the team enough? What a load of rubbish, and you really know nothing about football do you? Yesterdays match the 3000 fans who went were in fine voice, but it didn''t do anything to motivate the team into producing 1 shot on goal in the first half.[/quote]

No,  Glen, you didn''t miss my tenure with England... Yet, in the current situation, in the middle of a transfer window, recession and all, the various out-campaigns might do more harm than good. I never said that the fans are to blame for the current situatuon,  but they can do their bit, and expectations after so many new players coming in during the summer, and on such a low budget, were probably too high and thus counterproductive. Besides, I have full respect to the 3,000 travelling fans, who by chanting Lupoli''s name, seem to have contributed to a good decision and have given a lift to the lad. May his scoring form continue...

[The Fish Seller 0]

Since Delia has been in control for 12 years I looked at our finishing

league position in those 12 years and to measure our progress I looked

at the 12 year period immeciately preceeding Delias tenure.First the stats.YY- league position where 1 is 1st tier champion.85-2086-2387-588-1489-490-1091-1592-1893-394-1295-2096-36In

the 12 years prior to Delia being in charge of the club the average

league finishing position of NCFC was 15th which probably explains why

those of us who are ''of an age'' will always feel we should be a 1st tier

club.

Now the 12 years under Delias tenure97-3398-3599-2900-3201-3502-2603-2804-2105-1906-2907-3608-37In the 12 years Delia has been at the club our average league finishing position has been 30th.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="The Prisoner"]Since Delia has been in control for 12 years I looked at our finishing league position in those 12 years and to measure our progress I looked at the 12 year period immeciately preceeding Delias tenure.
First the stats.
YY- league position where 1 is 1st tier champion.
85-20
86-23
87-5
88-14
89-4
90-10
91-15
92-18
93-3
94-12
95-20
96-36
In the 12 years prior to Delia being in charge of the club the average league finishing position of NCFC was 15th which probably explains why those of us who are ''of an age'' will always feel we should be a 1st tier club.


Now the 12 years under Delias tenure

97-33
98-35
99-29
00-32
01-35
02-26
03-28
04-21
05-19
06-29
07-36
08-37
In the 12 years Delia has been at the club our average league finishing position has been 30th.[/quote]

So you are saying in 10 of those 12 seasons she improved on the position her predecessor left us in?

 

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So you are saying in 10 of those 12 seasons she improved on the position her predecessor left us in?

 

[/quote]Naughty Nutty you know full well I''m not one to prove a rule by using the exception. That''s why I made the effort to go backwards as far as Delia has brought us ''forwards''.

Sorry couldn''t stop myself laughing at the last bit for a while.Anyway if you check the other Delia thread you''ll see that in response to an accusation that I was being selective with the stats I calculated our average position 1966-1996 was a very respectable 19th in the league. Statistically proving that all those late 60''s early 70''s matches you attended were very much part of the Clubs golden era although you may not neccesarily have been aware of that at the time.[:D]

[Evil Monkey 52]

That''s some incredible use of statistics to ''prove'' a point, Prisoner... Do you, by any chance, work for the Government? [;)]On Topic, I liked that article, it sums up the inevitability and desperation of our situation and goes some way to showing that the problem is much deeper.  Once again people are assuming that replacing Roeder or removing the board will lead to an immediate improvement in form and a sudden resurrection of promotion hopes.  But we''re in the thrall of a major disease at Carrow Road and one that won''t be cured overnight.  We could remove Roeder and replace him with someone else, but they''ll still have no money to spend.  Or we could remove the board and replace them with someone wealthier and with greater business acumen, but we''ll still have the same players in the squad for the time being.The point is, this club now seems to need a complete overhaul, from top to bottom.  Delia is obviously a nice person and a big fan, but she doesn''t have what it takes any more.  Roeder isn''t a bad manager by any stretch, but he seems to have hit a wall in terms of what he can do with the resources at hand.  Many of the players in our squad are good (especially Clingan, Bell, Croft, Hoolahan) but what they do on the pitch is always going to be overshadowed by the behind the scenes shenanigans.  Aside from a small core of players, the whole club needs to start again (again).NCFC is currently on life support and we''re all waiting for that hero to come along, inject some much needed cash, drive us in the right direction and get the heart beating once more.  I fear that urging patience is now pointless, but it seems to be all we can do right now and hope, against hope, that in the meantime what we do have in charge can stop us flat-lining and sliding into League One...

[Beauseant 0]

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]That''s some incredible use of statistics to ''prove'' a point, Prisoner... Do you, by any chance, work for the Government? [;)]

On Topic, I liked that article, it sums up the inevitability and desperation of our situation and goes some way to showing that the problem is much deeper.  Once again people are assuming that replacing Roeder or removing the board will lead to an immediate improvement in form and a sudden resurrection of promotion hopes.  But we''re in the thrall of a major disease at Carrow Road and one that won''t be cured overnight.  We could remove Roeder and replace him with someone else, but they''ll still have no money to spend.  Or we could remove the board and replace them with someone wealthier and with greater business acumen, but we''ll still have the same players in the squad for the time being.

The point is, this club now seems to need a complete overhaul, from top to bottom.  Delia is obviously a nice person and a big fan, but she doesn''t have what it takes any more.  Roeder isn''t a bad manager by any stretch, but he seems to have hit a wall in terms of what he can do with the resources at hand.  Many of the players in our squad are good (especially Clingan, Bell, Croft, Hoolahan) but what they do on the pitch is always going to be overshadowed by the behind the scenes shenanigans.  Aside from a small core of players, the whole club needs to start again (again).

NCFC is currently on life support and we''re all waiting for that hero to come along, inject some much needed cash, drive us in the right direction and get the heart beating once more.  I fear that urging patience is now pointless, but it seems to be all we can do right now and hope, against hope, that in the meantime what we do have in charge can stop us flat-lining and sliding into League One...
[/quote]

 

Good post EM. I have my doubts about Roeder, particularly in terms of motivational ability, but the simple fact is that to sack him now would represent a huge risk, and , in my view, a much greater one than carrying on. Even if we could afford a "name" manager he would have to get to know the players and steer us through the transfer window while fighting for our survival as a Championship club,which would be an enormous ask.

I agree that the club needs a complete overhaul, but most importantly it needs a huge injection of cash to make us competitive in the short term. With Cullum finally coming clean on  his lack of interest that is simply not going to happen in the short term,so patience is the only course, however hard that is.Unfortunately we live in  a society where instant gratification is taken as a right, so we will continue to see the ongoing abuse of GR, Delia et al, but we have what we have for the time being, whether we like it or not.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="The Prisoner"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So you are saying in 10 of those 12 seasons she improved on the position her predecessor left us in?

 

[/quote]

Naughty Nutty you know full well I''m not one to prove a rule by using the exception. That''s why I made the effort to go backwards as far as Delia has brought us ''forwards''.

Sorry couldn''t stop myself laughing at the last bit for a while.

Anyway if you check the other Delia thread you''ll see that in response to an accusation that I was being selective with the stats I calculated our average position 1966-1996 was a very respectable 19th in the league. Statistically proving that all those late 60''s early 70''s matches you attended were very much part of the Clubs golden era although you may not neccesarily have been aware of that at the time.[:D]
[/quote]

I didn’t accuse you of being selective with the stats. I’m not even arguing with your conclusions. If only it was so simple though. The game is so different now to what it was 12 years ago. And even more different to when I first went 40 years ago. Your comparisons don’t take this into account. In fact you consider nothing else but results and league positions. Now that 36^th in 1996 is hardly an exception, it’s where we were when Chase left the club. It’s the position the club had fallen to and was where we were at when this board finally took over. Do you seriously think the opportunity has been there since to return to where we were in the early 90’s? Or further back in the 70’s? Do you think the opportunity was there for this board to sign a player of the calibre of Martin Peters to play in the Championship in the same way Sir Arthur could in 1975? Or Martin O''Neill like he did in 1982? The game has changed I’m afraid and the only people who aren’t aware of it are those who follow the club through results and league position.

So I’m not going to excuse all the mistakes this board have made, but they haven’t made half as many as posters on here would have you believe. Your stats do not take anything into consideration except results and league positions. You are quite happy to look for “other reasons” to give credit for improved attendances. And you are right that crowds are up all over not just here. But you won’t open your mind to other reasons why we only briefly returned to the Premier League. There are many bitter sets of fans right now. Charlton, Southampton, Nottingham Forest, Derby County, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday, Coventry, Leeds and Leicester among others all feel they are underperforming and their fans believe their rightful place is in the top twenty. I believe four of those 9 have been down another level. Nottingham Forests golden age included 2 European Cups. If all the clubs whose fans think they should be in the top 20 could be there then another dozen sets of fans would be disappointed. I don’t think we should just accept where we are because scrapping about at the bottom of the Championship is not what I want for my club. But I do think we should try and understand a bit more why we are where we are instead of using liberal amounts of hindsight to blame the board. After all we did that with Chase and that got us this lot. And we did it with Worthy and that got us Grant and then Roeder. In fact talking about Worthy, using your stats our average position under him was 25^th. For those of you ‘of an age’ that’s 10 places below where you feel we should be but for me, considering where we were when he took over, that was a real achievement. Remind me why everyone wanted him out again?

 

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Regardless of anything the board has or hasn''t done or the general financial state of the club, you cannot get away from the fact that most of our teams underperforming is down to one person the football manager and thats where the buck stops - Glen Roeder(nowhere).

 

Using our financial shortfalls as an excuse for his complete ineptness as a football manager is tame when clubs with half our crowds and no doubt smaller budgets do much better than we do!

 

I too belong to the older brigade who remembers when managers has long spells in charge of clubs. But being realistic if Ron Saunders, John Bond, Ken Brown, Dave Stringer, Mike Walker and Nigel Worthingtons 1st 15 months in charge of Norwich had been as unsuccessful as Glen Roeders current 15 month term then I''m sure they would not of stayed in charge nowhere near as long as they did. In fact they''d of soon been getting the push no doubt which is what should happen with Roeder. I missed out managers like Deehan, Megson, Rioch, Hamilton and Grant cause they in most cases didn''t last 15 months mainly cause things wern''t working out rightfully either falling on their swords or were sacked!

 

In summary getting rid of Roeder ASAP will prove more beneficial and cheaper than keeping him on which he doen''t deserve!