The Judge
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Agree it doesn''t guarantee Indy but what you can guarantee far more confidently is that if you don''t spend you will only go one way. If rich foreign investors want to throw their money down the drain then that''s up to them. Delia has decided (understandably) that she doesn''t want to do that with her money however by also wanting to hold on to her play thing the club will suffer in terms of football league position.
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Spot on DCB. Although the jury is still out on farkes coaching / managing ability
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Absolutely - unfortunately they don''t want to let it go and we as supporters will suffer for it.
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Agree - this is where all supporters need to direct their frustrations. Delia & co simply do not want to play the money game football has become (she has admitted this) and so she thinks Norwich is going to be the shining light that makes a stand against this and bucks the trend. Unfortunately football is solely about money - the more you throw at it the better chance you have at be successful. I accept there is no guarantee of success, but what you can almost certainly guarantee is that if you don''t spend you won''t be successful. As soon as those major footballing brains on the board announced this new structure it was obvious we weren''t going to get a recognised and experienced manager as none of those would have wanted to work in a structure like that - and so it proved. A lot of people seem to think we are going to stabilise in the championship with this mantra and philosophy- don''t kid yourselves - with the money being sloshed around in the championship now we are only going one way with her at the helm. She needs to go but unfortunately I fear her stubbornness will result in us going down further before she is forced out.
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As I have been reading this thread (and numerous others over the summer) it''s interesting to see that a large number of supporters use the argument of having to spend and buy players within our means and within the financial constraints of our owners. Appreciate going off at a bit of a tangent but I wonder if those same people agree with the austerity politics over the past few years which is clearly based on spending within your means? Clearly Delia, Ed Balls are hard line socialists who are currently spouting the line of enough is enough and we need to spend our way out of trouble - interesting she / they are not prepared to do that with the football club they own and run......
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Glad to see my post yesterday clearly wound so many of you up. Interesting that despite the fact I have been a season ticket holder for more than 30 years I''m clearly a binner in disguise and the fact that I have just got back from my job in London I''m a brain dead loser who clearer does well to talk let alone type a post the my not conform to those clearly with nothing better to do than type post after post through out the day. Appreciate the tone of my post was inflammatory to some of you who are clearly blinkered to what is happening to our club and I don''t apologise for the fact that I absolutely do think this is the wrong thing for the profession of our club. Call me naive but in any walk of life you could constantly look to improve and be the best you can whether that be as a person, a business or a football club. The club is massively selling us short at the moment and it is clear under the current ownership that they neither have the wealth or more concerningly in my view the desire to be successful and giving Martin another 2 year contract just reinforces that point.
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Absolute joke...Russell Martin epitomises all that is wrong with our club at the moment. Bang average/poor player and and even worse on pitch captain. Still fits nicely with the future strategy Delia and her misguided cronies have for the club....and for those of you that haven''t quite worked that out yet that isn''t a club that has aspirations for playing in the premier league... The one thing I was hoping for following the appointment of third team German coach was that he would get rid of that muppet. Why also do some of you think he will be a good coach ? The bloke has the positional sense of a blind ostrich and the leadership skills of Donald Trump...absolute joke... I''ve been a season ticket holder for 30 years and been going for 40 and I don''t think I have ever felt as dissolutioned about an upcoming season as a do now.... Good luck to all of you who think this is a positive and progressive move - enjoy your season
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Ray I agree that a Captain shouldn''t shout and berate players on the pitch if they make a mistake - that done in public in any walk of life tends to be incredibly counterproductive and would put the individual more under pressure making another mistake more likely not less. The main attribute I personally want from the Captain of my football team is leadership (yes you have stated this comes in many guises and you are correct). However I believe a captain should lead by example on the pitch - action speaks much louder than words. For all the qualities RM has this isn''t one of them. A good Captain isn''t necessary the best player but is one (in my view as said on another post) grabs the game by the scuff of the neck when needed, which lifts the crowd and then the rest of the team and tries to change the momentum of the game. RM just isn''t that type of player - too many times last year (and all the seasons he has been Captain for that matter) disappears in to his shell along with alot of the other players when things aren''t going well. I know we have ''crossed swords'' on this topic in the past and you are unlikely to change your view and defend RM to the hilt which is admirable - but as many an independent commentator said about NCFC on to many occasions this season - we lacked leaders on the pitch - that in my view HAS to be spearheaded and come from the Captain of the side.
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Sorry JF and Ray - Russell Marting shouldn''t even be on the pitch next year let alone Captain. So you know him - good for you - as said he comes across as being a decent chap and his heart is in the right place with regards to NCFC - great - you could put most of of us in that category as well. Mine and most others people opinions are bourne from what we see on the pitch - and we have done over the past 3 years (so not just a knee jerk reaction/opinion) - and he isn''t a leader which is what we so desperately need next year (a few of them to be honest..) Fine - give him a ceremonial ''Club Captain'' title if you want but 1st Team Captain - no way ....
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It was clear on many occasions last season that we severely lacked leadership on the pitch - someone when things aren''t going your way picks up the game by the scuff of the neck and lifts the team and importantly the crowd. Grant Holt was fantastic at this either through a ''robust'' challenge, chasing down a lost cause, gesturing to the crowd, etc. To be a leader of the pitch you don''t necessarily need to be the captain - but it tends to be those players with those attributes that get the arm band - they are leaders of men and they react to and follow them by example. This is why I was angry 3 years ago when Russell Martin was given the armband in the first place - a nice guy undoubtedly, articulate yes, writes an article in the EDP everyday - definately !! - but does he have the attributes to lift the players on the pitch when they need it most, get the crowd going etc - no he definately hasn''t and never has. Out of the current crop of players we have I believe O''Neil is closest to having these attributes (but will he play everyday). Jonny Howson is a good call and deservedly POTS in my view - but too quiet on the pitch for my liking. Tim Klose, hopefully if he is here next year, maybe haven''t seen enough of him to make an informed opinion of what will be needed in the long ang tough slog of the championship. Going by the personality, attributes, and demands of the manager I would like someone like him leading the team on the pitch - perhaps he is already in the market for more players of this ilk - let hope so as we need them..
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Thanks for clarifying the parachute payments scenario Bethnal - looks like I incorrectly assumed that the extra cash being pumped in to the Premier League this year would filter down with those being relegated next season - however if I reading what you said correctly its just a case of the Premier keeping it all for themselves again making divide even more difficult to cross going forwards! No one can disagree we have a great deal to thank our current owners for and of course we would all prefer our owners to be fans. There is a tipping point however where that love and their belief they are the ''custodians'' of the club becomes a blocker to the club moving to the next level which is becoming more and more obvious as more and more money gets pumped into the game (and continues to totally ruin it in my humble opinion) I, and am sure no one would criticise them for not being ''rich enough''. I accept that both Villa and Newcastle fans hate their current owners but in Newcastles case if Mike Ashleys money takes them back up again next year they will still probably hate him but they will be back so probably won''t mind as much. Villa''s relegation has led to a change of ownership so it will be interesting to see how they fare next season. As said in an earlier post I am undecided as to way the club should go as enjoy the Championship more - but I do believe that with the current status quo at the top our chances of regaining a spot at the top table are becoming smaller and smaller, as will our chances of competiting at the top of the Chamionship in season to come...
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as we all would Nutty - but it isnt going to happen and thats the issue in nutshell. I read your stat on the 45th richest owners on another thread last week and it makes you wonder how much we will miss Mr McNally ? The worry for me here though is not only if the top 20 rich clubs are up to it (which would be the Premier sorted) is if those 21 to 44 start flexing their financial muscles...which goes to show with things staying as they are we will struggle more and more to get back into the Premier league - made even more difficult when those clubs coming down from the Premier next will have significantly more in parachute payments than we will get this year and next.....
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I reckon 5/3 odd on Nutty.... we are clearly in a much better position than alot of other Clubs looking for potential suiters so although not a ''major'' english club with major history I think the fact we are definately currently one of those ''in between'' clubs we could attract a good array of investors who wouldnt haven''t to fork out a great deal in the stupid world of football investment (in comparison to other clubs) to achieve stability in the Premier and the world wide advertising/association kudos it would bring them. What odds would you give ?
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Fine Squit - if thats what you think - if you want it put another way - we currently don''t have enough finance at the top of the club to establish ourselves in the Premier league - our record 4 relegations prove this. Some supporters believe the Premier league is where the club belongs and get angry/frustrated each time we get relegated but don''t want new owners because its ''too risky'' - well to them I say you can''t have both that is the sad reality of the Premier league (and increasingly the top of the Championship) stop whinging about it and take a reality pill. The Owners have a choice (only them as they are the ones that ultimately will make the decision) about whether they want the club to go to the next level - however in my opinion they either just don''t want to because they are happy with the club ''as it is'' (recent board appointments appear to support this fact), or they basically believe that as custodians of the club that it is too big a risk to take and the supporters back them in this assertion. Supporter opinion is clearly divided on this as many threads over the past few weeks have highlighted. I am actually undecided as I prefer to watch the Championship games as for a team like us they are far more competitive and entertaining and we have a chance to bring in young hungry players rather than the bang average overpaid prima donna''s that you would need to survive in the Premier league - but i also think that if Delia and Michael sold the club to get the necessary investment needed to try to establish ourselves in the top tier of English football this would be a risk worth taking.
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Cant disagree Yankee and K Lo. The thing is we have undoubtedly reached as far as we can go with the current owners in charge - 4 promotions and relegations in recent seasons has proved this. With more money/new owners coming into the Premier and top Championship sides it is very clear that with out addtional investment our brief forays into the Premier every now and again to top up the bank account are going to become more and more difficult to achieve. So what do NCFC supporters want ? what is the aspiration for their club ? Take the risk of new owners investment with the chance of becoming an established Premier club (along with the chance of it going belly up) or stay as we are - which in all probability means over time we fall further down the footballing hierarchy. I''m not saying either way is right or wrong, all I would say that anything in life/business is a risk/calculated gamble those that are more successful tend to take those risks than those that don''t - yet those that don''t take those chances then whinge like hell about the stuff/success others then have.......