Robert Green or David James

[James Kent 0]

Am I the only one who doesn''t rate David James.  I constantly hear that he is the best english keeper, but for me his time has been and gone.  Watching Robert Green this season shows that he is in my eyes by far the best english keeper and probably in the top five of keepers in the premiership.  I would go on to say that he would have saved the swiss goal it was well taken, but could have been saved it was hardly right in the corner.  Also later in the game James got caught out of position and nearly cost us the win.  Surely the time is for Green as James is a liability and should be nowhere near the England squad. 

[Michael Starr 521]

David James is the best shot stopping in English football currently, and unrivaled by a mile. He''s equally excellent at organising the defenders ahead of him and holds a presence with his frame and structure (ask any Portsmouth fan which keeper they''d prefer to see playing for them). I saw David James at Yeovil in a pre-season friendly and he was solid and constantly screaming instructions out to his defence even when Portsmouth were on attack.

Unfortunately, us english do like to focus on the negatives! I thought James had a sound game for England (bar that little one incident), but hey, they''re human. One of the greatest club coaches in world football clearly rates him as number one... who are we to judge.

[InLambertWeTrust! 0]

No you''re not the only one JK I heard the idiot Motson say '' Fabio has picked the best english players in the last 6 weeks'' SO WHY IS Rob Green not in his squad? Morons on the beeb

[Skip 3]

Greeno does deserve a chance as he has played well this year! and not sure what he as done wrong not to get his turn???? but i don''t think he is any better or worse than the rest of them!!!

No-one really stands out and looks in total control......James, Green, Kirkland, Carson and Robbo have all got a mistake in them which you cant afford to have at this level. The young Man City lad looks decent and made a few good saves for the under 21s.

 

[SouthamptonCanary 0]

I think David James is clearly the best English keeper around at the moment but Grenn isn''t far behind.  Keepers do seem to get better once they are in their 30''s. 

I can''t believe that Green was not in the squad ahead of Kirkland and Carson

[macdougalls perm 0]

No you''re not alone - I really can''t believe Green isn''t the first choice. He''s head and shoulders above James in my opinion. James is a good shot stopper but his ''lapses'' have cost England at quite a few crucial points.

[we8wba 0]

said this before james is the best in england

wether he will be in 2010 (our next tourney is doubtful) hence why he shouldne be in the squad

have any of you seen carson play live? or just the croatia game on the tele? as he gets unnserary stick people saying he is rubbish, iv watched him several times at villa park where he played blinders

rob green is good and should least be in top 3 keepers i admit, but you lot dont seem to notice he makes quite few mistake to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3AArx1Ch0 superman?

im not saying he is poor, i personally rate him, but you lot hype him up so much (probably like me with lescott to be fair though) guessing due to norwich links

[Boba Fett 0]

Greeno et Deano

Greeno should be number one i think he has the edge on James age wise and his mistakes per season ratio must be better, I would have those two and Hart from Man City in the Squad.  Kirkland is an average keeper at best and at the moment from what i have seen of Carson although he is solid he doesnt appear to have that ability to pull off fantasic saves that both james and greeno do. 

As much as their is a bit of bad feeling about Ashton on this board i do feel if he can get a few months in the team and injury free then he should be a starter for England alongside Rooney he has bagfuls of talent and you could see him really perfom at a major championship....

[Steve H 0]

James is a superb keeper, but as pointed out it''s his lapses that count against him, there have been many, that''s why his nickname is calamity.

I think games like Switzerland and the gap between now and our next competitve game are a good time to break in someone new like Green, Carson or Hart, and a good chance to put keepers like Robinson and James in the past (unless they should prove themselves reliable again)

That said I would have preffered James in goal ahead of anyone for the Croatia game for the simple fact that Robinson was even more erratic than James and it was not a game to break in a new goalie like Green, Hart or Carson.

I''d take Green btw.

 

 

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

David James.

Great distribution, excellent shot stopper, experienced and now one of the few goalkeepers who will come out and cleanly catch the ball, (usually)! Makes a mistake now and then, but his good points far outway his weaknesses.

Green is a great shot stopper, freekick/penalty saver, but he''s unsure when to come for the ball. If there''s any weakness in his game, it''s that. I think that this would catch him out at international level, for the moment.

You could argue, "how can he get experience if, he never plays"? Fair point.

I''ve seen both live at West Ham and I had a bigger regard for James.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="we8wba"]

said this before james is the best in england

wether he will be in 2010 (our next tourney is doubtful) hence why he shouldne be in the squad

have any of you seen carson play live? or just the croatia game on the tele? as he gets unnserary stick people saying he is rubbish, iv watched him several times at villa park where he played blinders

rob green is good and should least be in top 3 keepers i admit, but you lot dont seem to notice he makes quite few mistake to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI3AArx1Ch0 superman?

im not saying he is poor, i personally rate him, but you lot hype him up so much (probably like me with lescott to be fair though) guessing due to norwich links

[/quote]No he is not. I hate it when people say James is the best in England - he really isn''t. He is arguably the best shot stopper - but that''s it. Did you miss his woeful kicking last night? A couple of times he was caught kicking it straight to a Swiss player - if you are a quality keeper that is something so basic that you should never get caught doing in an international match friendly or not.For me David James is like Titus Bramble - there are moments where he looks absolutely fantastic and then there are the moments when he looks like a 6 year old on the playground. The last couple of seasons have been David James'' most consistant - but I would argue that Green has been under a lot more pressure and still performed. By that I mean season before last Green was outstanding in West Hams run to the FA cup final and league standing, last season he was instrumental (more so in my opinion than Tevez) in keeping West Ham in the premiership - this season he is again impressing.This is where I have a problem with Copello - he obviously doesn''t actually know that much about English football. Another thing I caught them saying on the commentary that he seems to have picked a team from the players that have performed the best in the last few months which is why Jenas was in there. Motsey then said the last few months have been the best of his career . . . . . . James will be 38 in August, I would keep him in the squad for his experience but I would be looking to try and find a keeper for the next tournament. That is two and a half years away after qualifying. James will not be playing then - at least not at international level.Green - 28Robinson - is 28 but older than GreenKirkland - 26Out of those three Kirkland has just over 100 league and cup games to his name and seems to have his injury problems.Scott Carson is only 22 - I think some people forget that. He should never have been put in goal for the "must win" game. That should have been James. David James has been there and done it where as Carson was thrown to the lions and was caught in awe of the atmosphere etc.I think Green has to be at least considered for number one. The fact that he wasn''t included in the squad is disgraceful.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="chicken"]By that I mean season before last Green was outstanding in West Hams run to the FA cup final and league standing[/quote]

That''s really impressive considering he was playing for us that season too [;)]

[GJP 79]

[quote user="chicken"]

James will be 38 in August, I would keep him in the squad for his experience but I would be looking to try and find a keeper for the next tournament. That is two and a half years away after qualifying. James will not be playing then - at least not at international level.

[/quote]

Really? We have an Italian manager and the Italians have never been worried about playing the "older" players. I would expect, as far as Fabio is concerned, if David James is still the best English keeper in the game when he''s 40 then he''ll still be in the frame to be number 1.

 

[chicken 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]

[quote user="chicken"]By that I mean season before last Green was outstanding in West Hams run to the FA cup final and league standing[/quote]

That''s really impressive considering he was playing for us that season too [;)]

[/quote]Ok I got a bit carried away with my rant there!!!Still I cant believe that people are going on about David James like this - they guy is not the best this country has and quite frankly never has been.I would put about four keepers ahead of him all ten years younger at least. Andy - mate did you watch the game last night? Great distribution? Was that when he was kicking it to the opposition on the edge of his box? As for collecting that ball cleenly from crosses - what? Do you watch match of the day? He fluffs them all of the time - he just has a defence that is good enough to not allow the opposition to capitalise off them. I have watched James for years waiting for him to become this great international goal keeper that he was built up to be. Liverpool got rid because he wasn''t up to it - and now he has hit some form at 37 I just think its too late. We need a keeper for the next tournament not for next week.I don''t think he is rubbish by any means I just don''t think he is worth having in the squad as anything more than cover. Especially in friendlies when we need the younger keepers to get more international experience.Coppello needs to be looking to the future. I know some people are saying that James could help us qualify for the next tournament - which is fine appart from unless he is going to be 40+ and still be playing you need some of the other keepers in there and with experience. For me he has five or six keepers at least that are worth a look. Green, Robinson, Kirkland, Carson, Hart, Foster. Out of those I would like to see Kirkland get another full season under his belt before I am convinced, Carson is only 22 so given more time and experience of top games against the likes of Man U etc I am sure he will come on fine - the same with Foster (although not against Man U whilst he stays there).If you are to look at experience you are looking at Green and Robinson - Kirkland, strangely, has only played about a seasons more games than Carson and he is four years older.

[Buncey 1]

People keep forgetting this important fact. Kirkland has never completed a full season. How can you really say a goalkeeper is up to international level if he''s never managed a full season. He played half a season for coventry, a couple of games for liverpool and wba and a quarter of a season last year. That''s not really up to it. In addition he just isn''t that great a keeper. James has been, in the last few seasons, at his best but he isn''t called calamity james for a reason. He made a couple of cock-ups in the england match, his distrobution was just awful and what was he doing at the goal and at corners? He looked very flat footed too often. The goal would have been hard to save but he didn''t even move throughout the whole play. And the chance the swiss had from that headed on free-kick, James was stranged at the near post.Carson is a very young keeper. Nothing I have seen of him makes him stand out for me. He had a poor season at Chalton and was only brought in because Green went to WHU. He is having a better season this year but I still don''t see him as that special. He has time on his side but as first choice england keeper? No way jose. Put it this way we8wba. A lot of people were very suprised robert green wasn''t in the number 1 jersy let alone in the squad.

[Steve Hopkins 0]

David James IS by an absurd distance the best keeper in England at the moment. Yes he makes gaffes now and then but he has also won an amazing amount of games for Pompey in the last 2 seasons. Green has been guilty of some blunders for West Ham lately, plus his shot stopping is nowhere near the level that James'' is at. Mentioning Hart and Foster in the same breath as the England number 1 shirt as this point in their careers is a joke as well. Let them prove themselves before loading pressure onto their shoulders (see: Scott Carson). James commands his back four, is intimidating to opposing players and should be our number one for a while at least. That is until Green makes the step up in quality, Robinson decides to get a new brain and Kirkland can stay off of the treatment table.

[Jersey canary 0]

Green or James, not a tough one Green was very good for us - but it has to be James

 

James commands the box, takes cross can throw the ball and kick it, sorry Green is a good shot stopper and if he was better he wouldn''t play for a small team like West Ham.

Any defender would appreciate those qualities although I''m not saying he shouldn''t be in the squad - however I think that Capello has made made the right decision - more worringly Wes Brown looked poor in the 1st half and is a centre half - not right back.

[Norma Stick 0]

For the moment, I think that Capello''s 1st choice keeper is right.  James is the best English keeper at the mo.  But for Green not to get in the squad is ridiculous.  If James keeps fit and error free, then I think he will be No.1 until World Cup 2010 in South Africa.  But Green ain''t too far behind him and should be No.2.  Carson has done sod-all and I think, daft as it may sound, that Kirkland got in the squad because he is taller than Green.  Motson did refer to the fact that Capello favours tall keepers, historically.

So I reckon pecking order should read James, Green, Carson, Hart, Kirkland.

BTW, why play Wes Brown at RB instead of Micah Richards?

[Matt Morriss 69]

[quote user="Jim Kent"]Am I the only one who doesn''t rate David James.  I constantly hear that he is the best english keeper, but for me his time has been and gone.  Watching Robert Green this season shows that he is in my eyes by far the best english keeper and probably in the top five of keepers in the premiership.  I would go on to say that he would have saved the swiss goal it was well taken, but could have been saved it was hardly right in the corner.  Also later in the game James got caught out of position and nearly cost us the win.  Surely the time is for Green as James is a liability and should be nowhere near the England squad. [/quote]Yes

[we8wba 0]

[quote user="Steve Hopkins"]David James IS by an absurd distance the best keeper in England at the moment. Yes he makes gaffes now and then but he has also won an amazing amount of games for Pompey in the last 2 seasons. Green has been guilty of some blunders for West Ham lately, plus his shot stopping is nowhere near the level that James'' is at. Mentioning Hart and Foster in the same breath as the England number 1 shirt as this point in their careers is a joke as well. Let them prove themselves before loading pressure onto their shoulders (see: Scott Carson).

James commands his back four, is intimidating to opposing players and should be our number one for a while at least. That is until Green makes the step up in quality, Robinson decides to get a new brain and Kirkland can stay off of the treatment table.
[/quote]

totally agree, james is best keeper by far, although personally none of the keepers are on standard of our rivals in van der saar, buffon, casillas etc...

but is jens lehmamn rubbish keeper chicken? he often makes mistakes and is old! but i tell you what he still one the best in his position still

green should be top 3, carson i would say be in there number 1, give him the experience instead launching him in deep end like croatia

i think theres no doubt james is currently the BEST IN ENGLAND its more fact can he sustain that level till 2010? in my opinion

[vendy18 0]

robert  green.    no questions asked !!!!

[Cheerio 0]

[quote user="Michael Starr"]

David James is the best shot stopping in English football currently, and unrivaled by a mile. He''s equally excellent at organising the defenders ahead of him and holds a presence with his frame and structure (ask any Portsmouth fan which keeper they''d prefer to see playing for them). I saw David James at Yeovil in a pre-season friendly and he was solid and constantly screaming instructions out to his defence even when Portsmouth were on attack.

[/quote]Spot on. His weaknesses are crosses and occasionally kickingGreen is weak on long range shots, terrible organisation and crosses....... I wont go into the blunders at Forest, Gillingham amongst others and the groin injury for England......or the flappy day he had at Reading for Shammers.....tempted.....but I wont.... :o)He also isolates himself from the squad and isn''t that well liked by other players.... not that that shouldn''t affect international selection. My criticism of him is well documented. Personally I dont get him at all, to get £3m for him was a steal IMO. Marshall & Gilks are in a different league to Green & Gally. though Paul had two amazing games for us (QPR home and ?) but couldn''t maintain consistancyCapello has only been in the job 6 weeks - he cant assess everyone in that time. Green will be on his radar, have no doubt. I for one wont be cheering if he''s selected......I''d go for Joe Hart

[ianboogie 0]

i think that greeno is the best english keeper about and he has became a better keeper since he has been at west ham.

[Cheerio 0]

[quote user="ianboogie"]i think that greeno is the best english keeper about and he has became a better keeper since he has been at west ham.[/quote]Then England are in big trouble.....

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="Michael Starr"]

David James is the best shot stopping in English football currently, and unrivaled by a mile. He''s equally excellent at organising the defenders ahead of him and holds a presence with his frame and structure (ask any Portsmouth fan which keeper they''d prefer to see playing for them). I saw David James at Yeovil in a pre-season friendly and he was solid and constantly screaming instructions out to his defence even when Portsmouth were on attack.

[/quote]

Spot on. His weaknesses are crosses and occasionally kicking

Green is weak on long range shots, terrible organisation and crosses....... I wont go into the blunders at Forest, Gillingham amongst others and the groin injury for England......or the flappy day he had at Reading for Shammers.....tempted.....but I wont.... :o)

He also isolates himself from the squad and isn''t that well liked by other players.... not that that shouldn''t affect international selection. My criticism of him is well documented. Personally I dont get him at all, to get £3m for him was a steal IMO. Marshall & Gilks are in a different league to Green & Gally. though Paul had two amazing games for us (QPR home and ?) but couldn''t maintain consistancy

Capello has only been in the job 6 weeks - he cant assess everyone in that time. Green will be on his radar, have no doubt. I for one wont be cheering if he''s selected......I''d go for Joe Hart
[/quote]

I am sure that if Greeno was Scottish... it would be an even bigger joke that he was not there number 1, than it is him currently not making the England squad!!!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="ianboogie"]i think that greeno is the best english keeper about and he has became a better keeper since he has been at west ham.[/quote]

Then England are in big trouble.....
[/quote]

I agree with BOOGIE.

What would you know anyway Attack Barclay?

Marshall is better than Greeno... that is one of the funniest comments that I have heard in a good while!!!

[HappyhammerAndy 0]

Agree with most of what you say except,

Surely David James is not as bad as Titus Bramble, is anybody?

As you say, Green was the main reason why West Ham stayed up, not Tevez.

[Cheerio 0]

[quote user="Happyhammer Andy"]

Surely David James is not as bad as Titus Bramble, is anybody?

As you say, Green was the main reason why West Ham stayed up, not Tevez.

[/quote]Bumble is one of the worst players I''ve ever seen - at any level.Tevez kept you up pal.....Though him and the other fella turning up did as much to disrupt your season as they did to save it...... al la Faustino Asprilla at Newcastle I personally like West Ham, but don''t push it.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="Attack Barclay 2nd Half FFS"][quote user="Michael Starr"]

David James is the best shot stopping in English football currently, and unrivaled by a mile. He''s equally excellent at organising the defenders ahead of him and holds a presence with his frame and structure (ask any Portsmouth fan which keeper they''d prefer to see playing for them). I saw David James at Yeovil in a pre-season friendly and he was solid and constantly screaming instructions out to his defence even when Portsmouth were on attack.

[/quote]Spot on. His weaknesses are crosses and occasionally kickingGreen is weak on long range shots, terrible organisation and crosses....... I wont go into the blunders at Forest, Gillingham amongst others and the groin injury for England......or the flappy day he had at Reading for Shammers.....tempted.....but I wont.... :o)He also isolates himself from the squad and isn''t that well liked by other players.... not that that shouldn''t affect international selection. My criticism of him is well documented. Personally I dont get him at all, to get £3m for him was a steal IMO. Marshall & Gilks are in a different league to Green & Gally. though Paul had two amazing games for us (QPR home and ?) but couldn''t maintain consistancyCapello has only been in the job 6 weeks - he cant assess everyone in that time. Green will be on his radar, have no doubt. I for one wont be cheering if he''s selected......I''d go for Joe Hart [/quote]You don''t half spout some rubbish.  If Green was here right now Marshall would be on the bench and to claim that Marshall and Gilks are  in a different league is hilarious.  One of those 3 plays in the Premier League and lets in less than one goal every game, the others play in the championship and conceed more than a goal a game.

[komakino 275]

James is number one partially by default, though fully deserved his recall. England does not have a world class keeper for the position. James and Green are both good, but flawed keepers in different areas.

All the West Ham fans I know rate him and are pleased he is their keeper, but all agree he is not quite good enough for England. They all say there is something missing with him and I agree.

He doesn''t seem hungry enough and is still too quiet and doesn''t control his area well enough - that said he still believes in the lost art of catching the ball instead of the modern coaching that is ruining goalkeepers coming through.

At some point Ben Foster will be ''England Number One'', so this issue will be irrelevant!