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LinkNR9

Replace the Board - Yes, but with who?

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I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

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[quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

the Turners....

 as i have said afew times now if Torquay united can be bought out than we can

jas :)

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

the Turners....

 as i have said afew times now if Torquay united can be bought out than we can

jas :)

[/quote]

 

I got the impression that the Turners weren''t interested in investing more money in the forseeable future or taking over the running of the club, but thats just my opinion. Think Central Trust is their baby where most of their energies/time/ambitions lie

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[quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

Sooooooooo....you don''t put your house on the market until someone knocks on your door wanting to buy it?

The Delia "saviour" myth has planted the seed of fear into the minds of many fans who in ordinary life are afraid of change and upheaval. There will most certainly be someone waiting in the wings just as soon as her majority shareholding is openly up for grabs...but until then no.

At the AGM apparently she was still trotting out the "you should be grateful to have me" line...which for anyone with any intelligence translates to "I''m in control...so stuff you".......

It purely mind games....nothing more.

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I would have thought that approx £8 million pounds for the majority shareholding in a team which pulls in nearly 25,000 each match, a team with very recent Prem experience is a bargain in the World of football club purchases.

The way the Club is being run, that £8mill value touted by Delia must be decreasing by the match, and when the price is right I''m sure somebody will appear. I''m not at all convinced that after all the assett stripping Delia is entitled to get all her money back on selling up, financially we are in a mess as major shareholder she should suffer the consequences.

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Indeed you maybe right CA. Central Trust is their baby, and a mighty successful and well adjusted baby it is. They can safely put it in a creche and take on a disruptive and manic toddler. They have already installed the naughty spot for Doncaster and are busy checking his sums homework.

Ambitions - they may lie outside the offices of CT now and begin to focus on the corridors of CR.

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[quote user="NEIL CLUCKCASTER"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

 There will most certainly be someone waiting in the wings just as soon as her majority shareholding is openly up for grabs...but until then no.

[/quote]

If only you were a success in your business life you could be our saviour and with your brilliance in all things shining like a beacon we''d be looking forward to some Champions League games.............. but then again.

 

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What asset stripping ? -as far as I''m aware the club was playing at Carrow Road yesterday. And what investors? - the 6th richest people in the region don''t look overly keen to put more money in. The myth is that there are a load of people with loads of cash willing to throw it away on loss making championchip football in the middle of nowhere.

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[quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="NEIL CLUCKCASTER"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

 There will most certainly be someone waiting in the wings just as soon as her majority shareholding is openly up for grabs...but until then no.

[/quote]

If only you were a success in your business life you could be our saviour and with your brilliance in all things shining like a beacon we''d be looking forward to some Champions League games.............. but then again.

[/quote]

squit you''re a windup merchant only interested in sniping at posters who put forward an opinion.  So what''s your take on the current situation?

 

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For any investor to put money in Norwich City its got to be for the love of the club a true fan ect, as the money they do put in will not be for profit .

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[quote user="T"]What asset stripping ? -as far as I''m aware the club was playing at Carrow Road yesterday. And what investors? - the 6th richest people in the region don''t look overly keen to put more money in. The myth is that there are a load of people with loads of cash willing to throw it away on loss making championchip football in the middle of nowhere.[/quote]

Oh not that "loss-making" bullsh*t again.

This club has made a pretax profit for five out of the last seven years (2006 and 2007 Annual Reports).  The two loss-making years coincided with one-off events, ie. the ITV Digital collapse in 2003 and the loss of ticket revenue for half a season in 2004 while the Jarrold Stand was being built.

What sort of business is it that likes to give the impression it''s making a loss when in fact it has made a pre-tax profit of over £12m in the past three years?  Call me naive, but you''d think it would be headline news especially at a shareholders meeting. 

When pressed on this subject at the AGM the board took refuge in the fact that many other Championship clubs do make a loss on a regular basis.  But doesn''t that make our achievement all the more remarkable?  And call me even more naive, but I wouldn''t expect a profit-making Championship club to be languishing in the bottom three.

 

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[quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="NEIL CLUCKCASTER"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

 There will most certainly be someone waiting in the wings just as soon as her majority shareholding is openly up for grabs...but until then no.

[/quote]

If only you were a success in your business life you could be our saviour and with your brilliance in all things shining like a beacon we''d be looking forward to some Champions League games.............. but then again.

 

[/quote]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh bless your heart. I really want to give you a big cuddle.....so innocent!

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[quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="NEIL CLUCKCASTER"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

 There will most certainly be someone waiting in the wings just as soon as her majority shareholding is openly up for grabs...but until then no.

[/quote]

If only you were a success in your business life you could be our saviour and with your brilliance in all things shining like a beacon we''d be looking forward to some Champions League games.............. but then again.

 

[/quote]

Mmmm....my dear departed brother Cluck told me you talked out of your arse too....I''d sit down if I were you before something substantial eventually comes out.....

Twit.....

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[quote user="mystic megson"][quote user="A Load of Squit"][quote user="NEIL CLUCKCASTER"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

 There will most certainly be someone waiting in the wings just as soon as her majority shareholding is openly up for grabs...but until then no.

[/quote]

If only you were a success in your business life you could be our saviour and with your brilliance in all things shining like a beacon we''d be looking forward to some Champions League games.............. but then again.

[/quote]

squit you''re a windup merchant only interested in sniping at posters who put forward an opinion.  So what''s your take on the current situation?

 

[/quote]

If Squitster types more than a paragraph, he/she gets a terrible blister on the right index finger.

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The club may have made profits in the past when it was in the premiership. However, we are not living in the past and we are now in the championship. A business that makes a 100k profit after including 7m of income it will no longer recieve looks loss making going forward. Potential investors assess the current position and future prospects. What happened in the past in different circumstances is irrelevant to a potential investors assessment of the club.

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The fact is that while it''s fair enough to say that this site is the correct place to voice opinions,it is also crammed full,on a daily basis,with "cast iron rumours" that turn out to be just that...rumours.

 

To be fair the Wynn Jones entourage have the local media tucked-up (one thing they DO know something about),and that''s the reason why we do not hear anything and qed we do not know what''s going on behind the scenes.

The national media,understandably,do not give a stuff about NCFC any more,so no info will be forthcoming from that direction either.I guess we''ll just have to wait and see what transpires.I rather suspect that it''ll be too little,too late,as is the norm at Carra Rud,and we can all start buying the town plans of Yeovil,Crewe,and Hartlepool. Perhaps Neil Doncaster secretly harbours an ambition to play a footy match at the town that shares his name.

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How about the Gold brothers who are just about to sell Birmingham?One of them lives in Essex and is looking to invest in a club closer to home, is that local enough?  As has been said before, we''re a better bet than our neighbours down the A140 and the Golds have taken Brum up to the Premiership.Just because it''s quiet doesn''t mean that they are not out there looking for people (I suppose), but that''s certainly the impression given - this whole "there''s no-one out there" line is a load of squit.

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[quote user="T"]What asset stripping ? [/quote]

 

We may have been playing at CR yesterday but the entire  team on the pitch could have been purchased with the proceeds from the sale of just one player from the squad that Delia inherited. (And that''s overlooking inflation etc).

The team has been systematically asset stripped it''s blindingly obvious. If you deny this please explain exactly where and how the vast "Profits on player trading" have been generated.

Income minus expenditure = Profit           As we register a profit and not loss then we are obviously taking out more than we''re putting in ie asset stripping.

That''s why we''re second bottom in the old 2nd division, our worst league position in approx 47 years with the worst goal scoring record in the Countries top seven leagues.

Oh and it''s another 148 years or so before we technically own the entire stadium again BTW.

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Norwich is far from the only club that sells players to balance the books. Asset stripping suggests that the shareholders are selling assets and pocketing the money. As far as I''m aware the shareholders have injected cash into the club and not taken in cash out of hte club.

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[quote user="T"]The club may have made profits in the past when it was in the premiership. However, we are not living in the past and we are now in the championship. A business that makes a 100k profit after including 7m of income it will no longer recieve looks loss making going forward. Potential investors assess the current position and future prospects. What happened in the past in different circumstances is irrelevant to a potential investors assessment of the club.[/quote]

Oh dear, where to start?  Let''s forget for a minute the mess we''re currently in.  Why do you take it for granted that the Championship is the most this club can expect to achieve from now on?  Have you been corrupted by all that guff about "we can''t compete with x, y and z"?  I can understand it in a way, because it''s subtle and corrosive and takes a conscious effort to withstand. 

We can''t compete with Chelsea and Man U that''s for sure, but it''s not as if we''re trying to get into the Champions League.  With a bit of investment we can compete with the likes of Fulham, Wigan, Blackburn and three or four other small fry for survival in the Prem.  We have larger gates even now than they do, and we don''t have a Chelsea, Man U or Liverpool just round the corner - there are no other Premiership clubs within 100 miles.  As for players not wanting to come to the area, I haven''t noticed Middlesbrough letting geography stand in their way.

The only thing that will really interest potential investors is our ability to get into the Premiership and finish 17th or better, because that''s where the money is.  We almost managed it in 2005 with limited investment in the squad and a fat profit at the end of it.  It''s what''s known as ambition T.     

 

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There seems to be some attempt at mind reading going on here. I don''t recall saying we should take the championship for granted or anything about ambition. Merely pointing out on the topic of new investors that a championship football club is not a great financial investment so new investors willing to put 7m in year to compete financially with the other clubs in the league given the 6th richest people in the region can''t seen to afford it may be difficult. Norwich are Watford have proved it can be done but undoubtedly cash which Norwich don''t have a lot of helps.

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[quote user="T"]The club may have made profits in the past when it was in the premiership. However, we are not living in the past and we are now in the championship. A business that makes a 100k profit after including 7m of income it will no longer recieve looks loss making going forward. Potential investors assess the current position and future prospects. What happened in the past in different circumstances is irrelevant to a potential investors assessment of the club.[/quote]

If the club can only scrape a £90k profit after £7m of income (and a big profit in the transfer market) with player wages being only 32% of turnover compared to 52% the year we were promoted, the obvious question everyone should be asking is how the club could have wasted so much bonus income when it patently wasn`t going on the team.

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[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

[quote user="T"]The club may have made profits in the past when it was in the premiership. However, we are not living in the past and we are now in the championship. A business that makes a 100k profit after including 7m of income it will no longer recieve looks loss making going forward. Potential investors assess the current position and future prospects. What happened in the past in different circumstances is irrelevant to a potential investors assessment of the club.[/quote]

If the club can only scrape a £90k profit after £7m of income (and a big profit in the transfer market) with player wages being only 32% of turnover compared to 52% the year we were promoted, the obvious question everyone should be asking is how the club could have wasted so much bonus income when it patently wasn`t going on the team.

[/quote]

Wasted? Oh surely not Mr Carrow, just think of those lovely new ofifces, that smashing bit of old factory/disused car park that is so much better value than someone who inhabits the middle of the park. Wasted? On all those fabulous loan players who then spend the majority of their time here injured. Still the Norfolk golf courses probably see their profit margins bulge.....Wasted? Oh no, surely not.

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OK as it seems that there are a number of people on here who seem to have got stuck in the groove that to be anti-board means solely wanting delia out, let me say where a number of people are coming from including me.

Firstly we accept entirely the good that Delia and MWJ have done and thank them for the money they have put in, however as they have consistently said the Board and the Club should not be dominated by one person (couple) ever again. Alas that is exactly what they have done. So I do not want them out but I do want their shareholding diluted further.

In these modern days of football, unless you have a foreign mega-millionaire backing you, then you require several investors and I would like to see more besides the Turners coming in.

However the main criticism that I and others have is of Roger Munby, Neil Doncaster and to a lesser extent Michael Foulger.

Taking Foulger first, he may just have had a "bad press" but to most of us he appears ineffectual and therefore part of the problem not the solution.

Roger Munby is the Chairman and as such ultimately responsible for the mess that we now find ourselves in.  He has not pu money into the Club but is merely a figurehead. A figurehead I would suggest that actually hasn''t done us any good.  He was very sharp and was responsible for the increased commercilism of the club back in the last century, but now looks washed out and in need of replacement.

So to Neil Doncaster, a good bloke who actually rose to his position on merit. However the world has changed and it is clear that he is now out of his depth.  Hisfear of being found out has led to a nature of secrecy at the club that is all the more annoying due to the pretence of openness.  An openness that has staff paid to spy on us on this website and others so that Neil is kept informed of what the natives are thinking so that he dosn''t get caught out.

We don''t want to debate clauses in contracts anymore, but it was not the clause that was the problem, it was the almighty gaffe that forgot the new Sky TV revenues kicked in just as Earnshaws would kick in! A striker at "last years prices". It is these errors that are consistently covered up by stories that are spun by Ferrari and his team to deflect the detractors and give fuel to the "loyal supporters" of the board.

When things get really heated then play the "Delia saved us card" and Neil can escape again.

Well sorry but let us examine the Board as a group of decision making executives and separate the shareholder element that provide funds.

What do I want first Munby and Doncaster replaced.  Who with? Well chosen executives equipped to manage the modern game.  Can they be found? Yes but probably from other clubs.  Is it worth it? Yes if you want a Club in a few years time.

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[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

the Turners....

 as i have said afew times now if Torquay united can be bought out than we can

jas :)[/quote]I got the impression that the Turners weren''t interested in investing more money in the forseeable future or taking over the running of the club, but thats just my opinion. Think Central Trust is their baby where most of their energies/time/ambitions lie[/quote]The fact that it''s rubbish won''t stop him making that lazy accusation again and again, or the equally fatuous comaprison with Torquay - a Conference club with much lower debt and about 5% of our outgoings.

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[quote user="Old Boy"][quote user="cityangel"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="LinkNR9"]

I''ve never disagreed that the Board has sat on its hands whilst the Club has gone down the pan, but who - WHO? - is going to replace them? If there''s a host of investors out there with cash in hand, where are they? Please educate me, let''s have some names.   

I truly believe that Smith and MWJ would happily sell up right now, but I also believe that there is no-one out there to buy the Club. Why is it that no-one''s interested?    

[/quote]

the Turners....

 as i have said afew times now if Torquay united can be bought out than we can

jas :)[/quote]I got the impression that the Turners weren''t interested in investing more money in the forseeable future or taking over the running of the club, but thats just my opinion. Think Central Trust is their baby where most of their energies/time/ambitions lie[/quote]The fact that it''s rubbish won''t stop him making that lazy accusation again and again, or the equally fatuous comaprison with Torquay - a Conference club with much lower debt and about 5% of our outgoings.

[/quote]Or indeed that the take-over was a failure.  This from wiki backed up by BBC Sports links...In October 2006, Bateson stepped down as chairman to be replaced by Chris Roberts, who soon afterwards sacked Atkins,[2] replacing him with former Czech international Luboš Kubík.[3]

Despite his credentials as a player, there was some concern raised that

Kubik had no real history as a coach, and he did little to endear

himself to fans by bringing in Richard Hancox

as coach. Torquay''s dire form continued, and the club crashed to the

bottom of the table. Kubik eventually quit on February 5, and Colin Lee

was soon after appointed as the new director of football.[4] Keith Curle was appointed as Head Coach on February 7, 2007.

Roberts resigned amid growing pressure from supporters and the board of

directors, all of whom were unhappy with his conduct as chairman, on February 21, 2007.[5] Local hotel owner Keith Richardson was announced as the new chairman the following day. [6] However, on March 7, 2007 former chairman Mike Bateson

was reappointed as chairman, the move following Chris Roberts'' company,

Torquay United Holdings, inability to meet the next payment to purchase

the club from Bateson.

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The simple reality is this. This club needs a cash injection in order to get to the stage of genuinely competing for promotion. To change the business model you need anough cash to buy a majority of shares, you need to take on the debt servicing (bearing in mind the shortfall following the loss of parachute payments). You also need enough cash to splash on player investments to put us even into a top half of the championship position. This takes seriously deep pockets. Remember there are no guarantees you''ll get your money back on players at resale. There are no guarantees on cashflows, think gate receipts (full houses at the moment - which way are those sales going), TV revenues (minimal), merchandising.

Now let''s think about our hypothetical investor. He or she is rational, or should be given the fact they have made sufficent cash in business to be in a position to think about buying a football club, how are they going to make money from buying the club? Yes you have future TV revenue if you get into the prem but the reality is that you have to blow that on players and salaries to stay there and keep the cash flowing. The real reason for clubs getting bought up is that they can sell future overseas tv rights seperately and they can shift serious units of merchandising. Big in the US, big in China that''s the trade they''re doing. Our club isn''t in that league. Our investor can cherry pick from anywhere in the lower part of the prem, anywhere in the championship looking for a club to get secure cashflows from and try and create value by suggesting they can break to the next level eg upper Prem, prem middle, staying up in the prem ...... Once this value is created maybe they can then sell out to someone with even bigger pockets. There are a limited number of seats at the big table. There is a limited period of time before the owners up there stop inviting paupers to sit at the table for a meal or two. The premiership will shut iteld off or a more limited euopean super league will be created. Clubs like ours are two far away to be worth a gamble on making it before the door slams shut. The few investors about would rather look at a Charlton, a west Brom that sort of thing, better odds

This leaves us with local investors who want a play thing (throw money at with no guarantees) or a continuation with the struggle to break even. We are simply victims of fottball being the worst run industry on the planet. Investment in football is, in my humble opinion, a mugs game and you need very rich mugs at that ........ I think a number of factors count against the club in attracting the investment needed to turn things around and I just can''t see a white knight(s) with a deranged look in their eyes riding over the horizon .... depressing as it seems ......

 

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