Standing at Carrow Road

[Hooleyfan 0]

There seems to be a public debate, not huge at this time I admit but...Who would welcome a standing area back at Carrow Road?

Questions

Would it be an invite for a return to complete yobbery?

As most clubs have a contingent that tend to stand regardless...couldn''t an area be set aside for standing, thereby increasing the capacity of the ground for the benefit of all?

Would the club and police be concerned by the anonymity of people standing, i.e. not being able to identify them by reference to a seat number, or would modern day CCTV be enough to prevent criminality?

What should it cost to stand?

Where would you have the standing area at CR?

 

[John Boubepo 0]

Yep, lets knock that cr@p hotel down, have a corner terracing and increase our capacity by 4000, not to mention the atmosphere!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Yes, many fans would like to see it - me included

No, it aint gonna happen

Who to blame, The pigs, specifically those at Hillsborough many years ago - but why not blame the current set of do nothing idiots the club has to pay a small fortune to have at the ground. A disgrace.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Making the lower Barclay a standing area again would solve the ticket pressure issues at Carrow Rd at an inexpensive stroke. I think safe,secure terracing will come in eventually-its just a matter of slowly winning the more conservative elements over.

[BedsCanary 0]

If it were up to me I''d have the entire Lower Barclay and Snakepit standing - and bring back the ''proper'' footie atmosphere.I don''t buy all this safety reasons malarky - at a music festival you have 80,000 people all stood up in a smaller area moshing - and they''re allowed to drink alcohol at the same time!

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

The "Stand Up/Sit Down" campaign has been running for a while now. I see no reason why part of the Lower Barclay could not be a standing area, then the fans would have a choice. As I have mentioned before all the Bundesliga grounds have a standing area (I believe around at least 10% of the ground capacity is given over to terracing). When it looked as if the Leicester Tigers RU team were going to share the Walkers Stadium with Leicester City, officials from both clubs travelled to Hamburg to look at the system employed at the AOL Arena, where they have 10,000 standing places out of a capacity of 55,000 for domestic games but wheel in temporary seats when they play in European competition (because Rugby fans prefer to stand at games). As for prices, who knows, but you can get a standing place at the AOL for as little as 9 euros (6 euros for children).

[GJD 0]

I would wholeheartedly support the bringing back of safe, cheap standing areas for supporters.  Would bring back some much needed atmosphere at grounds and allow for cheaper ticket options for the casual or younger supporter.

It was not the danger of standing that caused some of the most regrettable incidents ever seen at football, but rather the barriers that were used to cage people in that caused the problem at Hillsborough.

Always felt that it is far slower and more dangerous to try and exit a crowded seating area quickly, than it is to leave a standing area without barriers. So the safety argument does not wash with me.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="GJD"]

It was not the danger of standing that caused some of the most regrettable incidents ever seen at football, but rather the barriers that were used to cage people in that caused the problem at Hillsborough.

Always felt that it is far slower and more dangerous to try and exit a crowded seating area quickly, than it is to leave a standing area without barriers. So the safety argument does not wash with me.

[/quote]

No the safety argument does not wash with me either.  The terraces themselves were not unsafe or dangerous, what caused the problem at Hillsborough was the police being unable and unwilling to manage a situation that was occuring outside in the turnstile area.  Add to that the mentality they adopted that all football fans were thugs and should be treated at such and we got a horrible event.  It tells all you need to now that when people were trying to escape over the fence the police thought they were witnessing a pitch invasion, instead of helping people taking their last breathes the police were preventing their escape.

Bring back terraces, they are not dangerous if they are managed.

[Eastonpromise 0]

since the ground redevelopments, the rake of the stands are now not suitable for standing in most of the grounds, so Standing will not return without lots of costly redevelopment

 

[canary cherub 1]

On 5Live the other night, three Football League club Chairmen/CEOs (David Gold of Birmingham, Heather Rabbatts of Millwall and Pete Winkelman of MK Dons) all expressed support for standing areas in principle.  However they may only have been saying what they thought the fans wanted to hear, with nothing to lose because they''re pretty sure it will never happen.

All-seater stadiums marked the beginning of my disenchantment with football.  I went to Torquay earlier this season partly for the sheer joy of standing on a terrace again and feeling like an active participant rather than a passive spectator.  As time goes on more and more fans don''t remember what standing was like and regard seating as normal.  Very sad.

 

 

[Cluck 0]

[quote user="mystic megson"]

On 5Live the other night, three Football League club Chairmen/CEOs (David Gold of Birmingham, Heather Rabbatts of Millwall and Pete Winkelman of MK Dons) all expressed support for standing areas in principle.  However they may only have been saying what they thought the fans wanted to hear, with nothing to lose because they''re pretty sure it will never happen.

All-seater stadiums marked the beginning of my disenchantment with football.  I went to Torquay earlier this season partly for the sheer joy of standing on a terrace again and feeling like an active participant rather than a passive spectator.  As time goes on more and more fans don''t remember what standing was like and regard seating as normal.  Very sad.

 

 

[/quote]

Spot on Mystic. 

This is just how I feel...When all seaters came along much of the spontaneous fun went out of watching live football. Neat rows of supporters just doesn''t seem the same as the mad melee of arms and shoulders when a goal was scored somehow.

Nice if it came back...but doubtful I reckon.

[south stand corner terrace 0]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"]

since the ground redevelopments, the rake of the stands are now not suitable for standing in most of the grounds, so Standing will not return without lots of costly redevelopment

 

[/quote]

I bought this topic up a few months ago and Norwich''s ground is suitable for standing, especially in the Riverend where seats were added to the already existing terrace, providing the Barclay has been buit the same it should beable to accomodate this

[GMF 744]

The River End is the only former terrace left at Carrow Road and would certainly be the cheapest to covert back, should this ever happen. The Barclay would have to involve a total revamp of the lower terrace, with wider enterance / exit points to comply with modern safety requirements.

If this ever happened, which is highly unlikely, I could only ever see one end being converted back and, due to historic reasons, this would almost certainly be the River End.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

Gazza - I think you are spot on, I used to stand behind the goal at the back of the River End terracing (new stand). That is the one thing you notice with the entrace/exits onto the terracing at the AOL, they are huge. I am not sure about the "rake" of the terrace issue, given the size/"rake" of some of the stadiums in the Bundesliga (which were revamped ready for the 2006 World Cup.

[In Dubious Battle 0]

Large sections of the barclay lower stand for most of the match anyway, this is dangerous imo, and would be made much safer if there was a dedicated standing area. Additionally i think it would improve the atmosphere at games, given the chance i know i''d stand.

[Hooleyfan 0]

"...Neat rows of supporters..."  reminded me of visiting Babbacombe model village in Devon some years ago where they have a model stadium with just that...our grounds look just like that now...and frankly the sound track for that exhibit was more than at some of our games at CR.

I''ll never forget my first game in the early 70''s, the vibrancy and  and energy of the packed stands, though I dont think the Norwich v WBA game they have been showing on Channel 442 Sky this last week from 1979 does it justice...though I always remember that because the cameras (and audio equipment) were closer to the away fans we never sounded our best on TV.

[Bryan Gunn 0]

A lot of the debate surrounding this focuses on providing ''cheap tickets''. If standing was returned it would only be in small sections of grounds and if there is the widespread desire people claim then I can imagine demand outsripping supply, giving clubs no reason to sell those tickets cheaper. Also there would be large cost in converting stadiums back to terraces and that would need to be covered, so in todays finanically dominated football world I don''t think this is the solution to "cheaper" tickects for "real fans".

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

I think in the last 4 or 5 years the campaign to reinstate tarracing in some areas of football grounds has gathered momentum and more people in the political world are listening.  In previous years if you mention "standing" in relation to a football match to a politician, you can gaurantee one of the first words out of their mouth will be "Hillsborough".  Fair enough, it was a dreadful afternoon.

However, there is absolutely no debate that terracing could be done safely.  Many countries on the continent have proved it.  One standing place per person.  Fact.  We wouldn''t see another Hillsborough again.

I personally would abolsutely love to see a return to terracing for a percentage of a ground.  There is no doubt in my opinion that standing increases atmosphere at a ground, it increases solidarity and unity between supporters.  Also, as the Stand Up Sit Down campaign point out on a regular basis, it would actually be safer than what we have at the moment.  Terracing would be safer than fans standing in a seating area. 

I''d love to see football clubs being given the oppertunity to make part of their ground terracing and then liasing with fans over where and how much they want.  Obviously the lower barclay would be the sensible choice and (with all due respect the those in the River End and City stand) probably a higher percentage of fans in the barclay would take up the option of a standing place.

Lets hope politicians look at the sensible statistics and overwhelming views of hundreds or thousands of fans across the county, rather than one tragic isolated incident in the 80s.

[Mello Yello 2,293]

I just can''t understand why lower league clubs are still allowed terracing, yet in the Prem, it''s mandatory/compulsory?

Why not have ''excused seat-belts'' in cars under 1200cc''s ? Or, only having to wear  safety helmets on building sites if the building exceeds two storeys.

Money wouldn''t be the actual reason, would it?

 

 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="Mello Yello"]

I just can''t understand why lower league clubs are still allowed terracing, yet in the Prem, it''s mandatory/compulsory?

Why not have ''excused seat-belts'' in cars under 1200cc''s ? Or, only having to wear  safety helmets on building sites if the building exceeds two storeys.

Money wouldn''t be the actual reason, would it?

[/quote]

There''s lots of things I don''t understand about the Premiership Mello.

When I hear the commentator of a Championshipo match say "That would be a foul in the Premiership" I don''t understand why it''s not a foul in that game I am watching.

As you say, terracing is allowed in the lower leagues and yet one of the reasons given against "goal line technology" is that it wouldn''t be possible in the lower leagues and football should be the same at all levels.

I think Fulham got away with terracing in the Prem for a while, and Portsmouth get away with their pathetic seat filled bit of terrace for the away fans. I think that the Premiership clubs should have a duty to bring their grounds up to standard within a couple of years, especially with the money in the game now.

It seems unfair to me that non league clubs have to get their grounds to a certain standard before they are admitted into the league and yet premiership clubs get time to make the changes.

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

If people stand when they want to anyway, then what''s the big deal? At least with the present arrangement us ''seniors'' can rest our legs at half time! Biggest problem is pushing little Johnny down to the front or bringing in a crate so he can see. Maybe we should have those under 5'' 6" in the River End and those over in the Barclay? Or we could build an all standing area over the City stand which may catalyse those in the City stand to open their mouths. Or........? Oh, shut up Bly.

OTBC  

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote user="DumbleDelia is Magic"]

I think in the last 4 or 5 years the campaign to reinstate tarracing in some areas of football grounds has gathered momentum and more people in the political world are listening.  In previous years if you mention "standing" in relation to a football match to a politician, you can gaurantee one of the first words out of their mouth will be "Hillsborough".  Fair enough, it was a dreadful afternoon.

However, there is absolutely no debate that terracing could be done safely.  Many countries on the continent have proved it.  One standing place per person.  Fact.  We wouldn''t see another Hillsborough again.

I personally would abolsutely love to see a return to terracing for a percentage of a ground.  There is no doubt in my opinion that standing increases atmosphere at a ground, it increases solidarity and unity between supporters.  Also, as the Stand Up Sit Down campaign point out on a regular basis, it would actually be safer than what we have at the moment.  Terracing would be safer than fans standing in a seating area. 

I''d love to see football clubs being given the oppertunity to make part of their ground terracing and then liasing with fans over where and how much they want.  Obviously the lower barclay would be the sensible choice and (with all due respect the those in the River End and City stand) probably a higher percentage of fans in the barclay would take up the option of a standing place.

Lets hope politicians look at the sensible statistics and overwhelming views of hundreds or thousands of fans across the county, rather than one tragic isolated incident in the 80s.

[/quote]

Nice to see you posting again DDIM.

[salp 0]

Will George Michael fans be banned from drinking in view of the pitch? I doubt it. What''s the effing difference - after all, at a home game we are there to watch the game aren''t we? not there for a booze-up at those prices in the ''bars''

[gazzathegreat 0]

I have always wondered why football fans are treated as some sort of sub species when it comes to this issue, as Beds points out, music festivals seem to happen without much injury to participants, why oh why is it seemingly safer to sit at games.  I can''t remember getting into anything remotely unsafe in all my years in the old Barclay (or the River End come to that).

The atmosphere has got better lately, but will never compare to the 70s and 80s... maybe that''s all gone forever as we change - but why we, and other clubs couldn''t have some sections of standing terrace has never been properly discussed, at least not to my satisfaction.

Will it ever come back, well it might, if there are enough concerted campaigns and enough noises made in the right circles....Would we be a pioneering club, well why not, we certainly have one of the most envied and loyal fan bases.  Ask anyone who supports another team.