The Premier League brings 'a unique brew of misery'

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

Amazingly Mr Liew manages to get through this piece about the 'worst-ever' PL teams without mentioning Norwich. Thought it was good though. Most of the below checks out.

I know a few Ipswich fans and quite a lot of my time right now is being spent trying to convince them that this – right here – is the good bit. With a team they adore and a league they are tearing apart and a coach who is theirs and theirs alone.

Not the grim struggle that comes after: desperately begging big clubs for loan players, the sheer cliff face to 35 points, hours spent waiting for VAR decisions, 21% possession against Manchester City, elite tactical fouling. Getting bossed 2-0 at home and feeling weirdly grateful. Chris Sutton suddenly deciding to have an opinion about you. Getting rinsed by agents. Getting beaten by literal nation states. For the teams at the bottom of the food chain, the Premier League has come to resemble an abusive relationship.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2024/apr/23/for-sheffield-united-and-co-the-premier-league-brings-a-unique-brew-of-misery

[cambridgeshire canary 6,756]

The Premier League is an awful, corrupt divison and would not be worth it if not for the money.

I will get booed for saying I prefer watching us playing in the Championship and I accept it. Boo away, I dont care. The Championship is a more entertaining league.

Edited April 23 by cambridgeshire canary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

The Premier League is an awful, awful divison and would not be worth it if not for the money.

I will get booed for saying I prefer us playing in the Championship and I accept it. Boo away, I dont care. The Championship is a much better and more entertaining league.

I agree. The quandary is that the point of competition is to win, and winning means getting promoted.

I suppose the alternative approach is to recalibrate finances to be a sustainable mid-table championship side, treat the league like a filler and treat knockout cup competitions as the main event and lobby to sever the link between the Premier League and the Championship.

Edited April 23 by littleyellowbirdie

[Capt. Pants 4,263]

Well if NCFC strive to be a mid table Chump club we'll probably end up in League One.

I'm happy with being yo yo club to be honest. 

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

I always say that yo-yo is currently the best option for NCFC.

If that's the system, use it because we cannot beat it alone.

Cherry-pick the best things from being in the PL, the tv money, the club being in the headlines more often, Worldwide exposure, the cream of players playing at a full Carrow Road and may be an exciting relegation battle at the end of a season as us 'underdogs' are piling up, and then the icing on the cake, parachute payments for failure.

We might even get to see another Man. City (at home result.) More kudos than even beating the Binners at Carrow Road, imo.

We might even fluke a second season or more. There always has to be ambition, realistic or not.

Meanwhile, we could continue to finance the Cat 1. Academy, further upgrade Colney, raid South America for a few million outlays and, may be, even a new main stand.

Self-funding includes using the PL in such a way and as I see it.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,791]

Brentford always have to be cited here...'if' you can stay up for 3 seasons, you have a chance to become semi established and then arent talked about as being relegation favourites any longer. This then potentially extends into a 10 yr period such as C.Palace. That has to be the extent that a club of our size can look to aspire to

Edited April 23 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

22 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

The Premier League is an awful, awful divison and would not be worth it if not for the money.

I will get booed for saying I prefer us playing in the Championship and I accept it. Boo away, I dont care. The Championship is a much better and more entertaining league.

Delia once said, quite a while ago, that existing in the Championship causes the club to lose money. We would therfore have to completely re-structure our finance and lower our ambitions to survive.

This could even mean losing our Cat 1. Status as an eventual scenario and therefore produce fewer promising youngsters and most certainly not enjoy the likes of a Sara or Sargent (both of whom cost millions,) and others.

I could go on. 

The quality in the team would then inevitably deteriorate. Fortress Carrow Road might become a thing of the past, and we would be hammered by the Chumps big-boys in the way that we were by the PL elite.

Would you enjoy the Championship as much then?

 

[Nuff Said 5,153]

I wonder how Luton fans are feeling about it now. Unlike the Binners, I would guess that they went up with realistic expectations though. There seems to be at least a section of 1p5wich fans who think a magical combination of pension fund money, momentum and history will propel them to the Champions league. 🤣

[BroadstairsR 2,186]

6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I wonder how Luton fans are feeling about it now. Unlike the Binners, I would guess that they went up with realistic expectations though. There seems to be at least a section of 1p5wich fans who think a magical combination of pension fund money, momentum and history will propel them to the Champions league. 🤣

Luton will be a better club for their (seeming) one season at the top-table. Haven't they used some of the money to improve their ground, haven't they a better squad?

They may even be contenders in the Championship again with the parachutes they will get.

A big step forward resulting in a smaller step backwards?

 

Edited April 23 by BroadstairsR

[East Rider 551]

It is what it is at the moment. Unless we strive to achieve promotion each time, we will stagnate and sink down the leagues. Pitiful situation, but that's the environment at the moment.

We need promotions to stand still, end of.

[S_81 816]

3 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Luton will be a better club for their (seeming) one season at the top-table. Haven't they used some of the money to improve their ground, haven't they a better squad?

They may even be contenders in the Championship again with the parachutes they will get.

A big step forward resulting in a smaller step backwards?

They’ve also raised vital funds toward their move to their new ground. One year in the Prem is financially game changing - in terms of that year and the parachute payments. 
Our side would be humiliated week on week in the Prem. But I’d take that for the year as the years to come will be beneficial for that. 
Luton are well placed to get back up, for example. And bit by bit teams like Brentford / Bournemouth / Brighton have shown how to stay there for longer than a season.  

[essex canary 501]

8 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Luton will be a better club for their (seeming) one season at the top-table. Haven't they used some of the money to improve their ground, haven't they a better squad?

They may even be contenders in the Championship again with the parachutes they will get.

A big step forward resulting in a smaller step backwards?

 

Perhaps we can do the same next time with fresh management in place or even better like Brentford. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

41 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I always say that yo-yo is currently the best option for NCFC.

If that's the system, use it because we cannot beat it alone

Yes, agree with this.  It's a weird paradox of modern football that I hate the Premier League (for all the reasons Liew outlines) but I do want us to be in it.

I do hope that when we next go up we are shameless about ignoring the criticism and mockery that goes with being a yo-yo team and, as you say, use the system to our advantage.

And I'd also hope that we are a positive voice for change within that organisation, advocating for a more equable financial settlement across the pyramid, etc. We might be a lone voice, but so what.

[Nuff Said 5,153]

A great read. I could just quote the whole thing but this stood out for me (and should be some sort of AI-generated reply on here whenever anyone tells us how much better Chase’s record was). Talking about Sheffield United:

Transpose this team into, say, the 1993-94 Carling Premiership and they would be greeted like some superior alien life form: relentlessly fit, technically on a different plane, probably winning the league by eight points.

[ricardo 7,395]

4 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

A great read. I could just quote the whole thing but this stood out for me (and should be some sort of AI-generated reply on here whenever anyone tells us how much better Chase’s record was). Talking about Sheffield United:

Transpose this team into, say, the 1993-94 Carling Premiership and they would be greeted like some superior alien life form: relentlessly fit, technically on a different plane, probably winning the league by eight points.

We badly need time travel in order to become successful.

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

20 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

A great read. I could just quote the whole thing but this stood out for me (and should be some sort of AI-generated reply on here whenever anyone tells us how much better Chase’s record was). Talking about Sheffield United:

Transpose this team into, say, the 1993-94 Carling Premiership and they would be greeted like some superior alien life form: relentlessly fit, technically on a different plane, probably winning the league by eight points.

Yeah, it's a sobering thought that Farke's team that finished bottom would have wiped the floor with Walker's team that finished third.

[Nuff Said 5,153]

While we’re linking to things in The Guardian:
 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/picture/2024/apr/23/david-squires-on-fa-cup-meddling-replays-premier-league-clubs-var-nottingham-forest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,756]

35 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

A great read. I could just quote the whole thing but this stood out for me (and should be some sort of AI-generated reply on here whenever anyone tells us how much better Chase’s record was). Talking about Sheffield United:

Transpose this team into, say, the 1993-94 Carling Premiership and they would be greeted like some superior alien life form: relentlessly fit, technically on a different plane, probably winning the league by eight points.

I mean it could be worse.. Wonder how the football teams in the 60's and 70's when half the players were chain smokers and who headed down the pub after every match would do against todays teams?

[cornish sam 959]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Luton will be a better club for their (seeming) one season at the top-table. Haven't they used some of the money to improve their ground, haven't they a better squad?

They may even be contenders in the Championship again with the parachutes they will get.

A big step forward resulting in a smaller step backwards?

 

I think the problem lies after the first promotion. You come back down with the money, the improvements and the parachute payments, you should be competitive at the top end the next season so fan expectations are higher, if you then get promoted again you need to try and push on, but the resources from 2 brief visits are not enough so you either see a bit of regression and the supporters getting disheartened or you gamble more than you should. 

Promotion paves the way to hell...

[Nuff Said 5,153]

49 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

I mean it could be worse.. Wonder how the football teams in the 60's and 70's when half the players were chain smokers and who headed down the pub after every match would do against todays teams?

Kick them to pieces probably.

[yellowrider120 767]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Yeah, it's a sobering thought that Farke's team that finished bottom would have wiped the floor with Walker's team that finished third.

Depends which Farke team from 2019/2020 turned up. The team that beat Newcastle and, of course, Man City or the abject rubbish that we saw on our IFollow screens (or whatever it was) in that appalling Project Restart. The former may have beaten M Walkers' team but the latter most certainly wouldn't. 

[sgncfc 1,234]

2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Brentford always have to be cited here...'if' you can stay up for 3 seasons, you have a chance to become semi established and then arent talked about as being relegation favourites any longer. This then potentially extends into a 10 yr period such as C.Palace. That has to be the extent that a club of our size can look to aspire to

Not really - because at some stage in the next 5 to 10 years or so both of these clubs will be relegated. As will Brighton. As will Bournemouth etc etc.  And none of them will win anything in the meantime, or even get close. The "excitement" is in winning enough games to do it all again next season and go through the same purgatory. Then relegation is seen as a disaster when it's really just a part of the game. Then they have to bounce back or rebuild, demanding the return of their "rightful place" at the trough, and so the cycle continues. The only people benefitting are agents and players. 

The ludicrous reaction to the once mighty Man Utd almost succumbing to a good Champs team in a semi-final is witness to their entitlement. Embarrassed to win a semi-final? How patronising they are - all of them; Sky, the BBC, the FA and everyone associated with the incompetent officials.

I said 6 years ago (to much ridicule, as I recall)  that Championship clubs should have the option of selling their PL place on promotion to a billionaire club and I stand by that. The PL only want billionaire clubs and eventually that is what they will have. In the meantime, let's take their money, build facilities and communities and stay in the top 6 of the Championship where the football is at least interesting and entertaining (sometimes).

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,791]

32 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Not really - because at some stage in the next 5 to 10 years or so both of these clubs will be relegated. As will Brighton. As will Bournemouth etc etc.  And none of them will win anything in the meantime, or even get close. The "excitement" is in winning enough games to do it all again next season and go through the same purgatory. Then relegation is seen as a disaster when it's really just a part of the game. Then they have to bounce back or rebuild, demanding the return of their "rightful place" at the trough, and so the cycle continues. The only people benefitting are agents and players. 

The ludicrous reaction to the once mighty Man Utd almost succumbing to a good Champs team in a semi-final is witness to their entitlement. Embarrassed to win a semi-final? How patronising they are - all of them; Sky, the BBC, the FA and everyone associated with the incompetent officials.

I said 6 years ago (to much ridicule, as I recall)  that Championship clubs should have the option of selling their PL place on promotion to a billionaire club and I stand by that. The PL only want billionaire clubs and eventually that is what they will have. In the meantime, let's take their money, build facilities and communities and stay in the top 6 of the Championship where the football is at least interesting and entertaining (sometimes).

What else can we do ?

You'd would hope that after being in the premier league for a decade you'd be in a position to try to challenge for a Europa Conference league spot through finishing 7th/8th. 

I went to all 6 UEFA cup games in '93 and sadly have accepted in was a once in a lifetime thing...I'd love to just have one more chance to experience that

I also suspect we'd need to be in and stay in the premier league for a number of seasons before the club considered ever expanding the City stand

Edited April 23 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Nuff Said 5,153]

41 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I said 6 years ago (to much ridicule, as I recall)  that Championship clubs should have the option of selling their PL place on promotion to a billionaire club and I stand by that. The PL only want billionaire clubs and eventually that is what they will have. In the meantime, let's take their money, build facilities and communities and stay in the top 6 of the Championship where the football is at least interesting and entertaining (sometimes).

The issue with selling a Premier League place to someone with more money would be like the current objections to parachute payments only writ larger. We would just institute the same “them and us” relationship in the Championship that we complain bitterly about when it happens in the Prem.

[capricorn1 18]

3 hours ago, S_81 said:

They’ve also raised vital funds toward their move to their new ground. One year in the Prem is financially game changing - in terms of that year and the parachute payments. 
Our side would be humiliated week on week in the Prem. But I’d take that for the year as the years to come will be beneficial for that. 
Luton are well placed to get back up, for example. And bit by bit teams like Brentford / Bournemouth / Brighton have shown how to stay there for longer than a season.  

Not many years ago the comparison would’ve been Sunderland / Stoke / West Brom / Wigan etc… The established teams we should aspire to be like.

[Nuff Said 5,153]

1 hour ago, capricorn1 said:

Not many years ago the comparison would’ve been Sunderland / Stoke / West Brom / Wigan etc… The established teams we should aspire to be like.

Yeah, but tell that to kids today and they don’t believe you…

[mannings bandy legs 391]

4 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

I mean it could be worse.. Wonder how the football teams in the 60's and 70's when half the players were chain smokers and who headed down the pub after every match would do against todays teams?

I wonder,George Best,Charlie Cooke ,Colin Bell,on these pitches,with hardly any tackling allowed. I'd fancy their chances.