Apologising To David Wagner

[The Bunny 326]

32 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

only kidding, whatever happens, happens. I’ll just act however I feel like. Thanks everyone for the unrequested advice though.

you mean at home in your boxers trolling this message board? 

[The Real Buh 3,746]

3 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

you mean at home in your boxers trolling this message board? 

Mate I’m just arriving in Norwich now. Can’t wait for the ex-pats on here to tell all of us that are actually at the game today how to act.

[shefcanary 2,901]

Let's see if Sarge starts or not first.

And if he doesn't start and Wagner sets the team up tactically as if he is playing, as he did during that poor period September to November, then I reserve the right to boo! 

Wagner, prove us wrong!

[yellowrider120 896]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

You know I remember seeing a lot of non Norwich fans mocking us and saying how embarrassing and entitled many Norwich fans have come across recently, with them seeing us as a bunch of moaners who expect us to win every match 3-0 and walk the leauge with ease..

 

They're not wrong

They are wrong as this author is nowhere near fitting that description. Sorry to disappoint your blanket of negativity you wish to drape across the entire supporter base. 

[BroadstairsR 2,272]

1 hour ago, Canary Jedi said:

I think Wagner and his support staff and NCFC leadership really ought to take the time to try to understand the root cause of all the frustration, and try to address that through open communication.

Part of the issue is the poor communication and the frustration that results is compounding match after match until it results in booing a winning team.

So I would not be too hard on us fans, there is a reason for this frustration and we haven’t seen the end of it. 

Agreed. It wasn't just last Tuesday's incidents that caused the fan reaction. Disaffection has been growing for months and for various reasons.

A few of those reasons are down to Wagner himself, a highly paid individual employed to do a particular job ie. turn a talented squad into serious promotion challenges. That's the job spec. and he has, imo, failed thus far.

The other reasons are well-known and often voiced by the so-called whingers or entitled or whatever name is plucked from the shelf by those who are content with the current strange array of performances on the field of play. 

[shefcanary 2,901]

As I said on another thread, if Sarge does not start and Wagner sets us up as if he is playing, then we perform like in the September to November period, I fully reserve my right to boo him again. 

Prove me wrong Wagner!

[Robert N. LiM 5,944]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Has Wagner 'apologised' for every tactical and substitution error he's made this season after a bad result?... unlikely

No, but he did say his words on Tuesday might have been too strong. Would think fans could meet him half way

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

7 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Let's see if Sarge starts or not first.

And if he doesn't start and Wagner sets the team up tactically as if he is playing, as he did during that poor period September to November, then I reserve the right to boo! 

Wagner, prove us wrong!

Just out of interest, if Sarge isn't available today, how would you set the team up? You can't really drop Barnes after a goal and an assist on Tuesday, so I guess it's just hoping that he deems SVH ready for a start. But if he starts with Barnes up top and Sara just behind, I hope we can still just get behind the team.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026]

10 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

No, but he did say his words on Tuesday might have been too strong. Would think fans could meet him half way

Agreed....but if he's going down the road of turning fans he'd better keep winning as it tends not to go down well.

Thd fans were here before him and will be long after him

[shefcanary 2,901]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Just out of interest, if Sarge isn't available today, how would you set the team up? You can't really drop Barnes after a goal and an assist on Tuesday, so I guess it's just hoping that he deems SVH ready for a start. But if he starts with Barnes up top and Sara just behind, I hope we can still just get behind the team.

Me personally, I would give SvH a go. I would have preferred though to have played Aboh, but he played last night so that's not going to happen. 

There is a sense gradually the club is moving to a basic 4-2-2-2 set up based on recent U21's. I'd play Nunez and Sorensen as a pivot with Sainz and Sara, with SvH and Barnes up top. The width to come from Stacey and my preference of Sam. 

But I've no doubt it will be totally different. If it's 4-2-3-1 with Barnes up top on his own, then I can only see more trouble to come.

[Harry53 229]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm more concerned with action than communication. I'd like to know why Wagner got so little support in the transfer window by loaning out a striker, our 2nd or 3rd top scorer, and replacing him with someone not 'Championship ready'. That's hardly supporting a push for the play-offs. Injuries to Rowe and Sargent make that look even more ridiculous.

Just to caveat that, I hope SVH scores an important goal for us today.

I think josh will score again today if he is fit

Edited February 17 by Harry53

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026]

10 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Just out of interest, if Sarge isn't available today, how would you set the team up? You can't really drop Barnes after a goal and an assist on Tuesday, so I guess it's just hoping that he deems SVH ready for a start. But if he starts with Barnes up top and Sara just behind, I hope we can still just get behind the team.

If Idah was still here, he would start in that scenario, so if SVH doesnt , its a concern that we we've signed someone who we dont think is as good/ready/ can be trusted as much as Idah.

We never seem to sign anyone 'game ready'...

[East Rider 585]

11 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Just out of interest, if Sarge isn't available today, how would you set the team up? You can't really drop Barnes after a goal and an assist on Tuesday, so I guess it's just hoping that he deems SVH ready for a start. But if he starts with Barnes up top and Sara just behind, I hope we can still just get behind the team.

I'd start Nunez and move Sara further forward behind Barnes. Perhaps give SVH longer in the second half.

And no I will not be booing the substitutions, as I didn't boo the obvious reason for change on Tuesday.

OTBC

[East Rider 585]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

You know I remember seeing a lot of non Norwich fans mocking us and saying how embarrassing and entitled many Norwich fans have come across recently, with them seeing us as a bunch of moaners who expect us to win every match 3-0 and walk the leauge with ease..

 

They're not wrong

Utter bollox. You must have been cavorting with some binners one evening. Having been mid table or out of the PO spots for much of this season, I'm surprised people feel we think we should be beating teams 3-0 each match.

Garbage !

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Me personally, I would give SvH a go. I would have preferred though to have played Aboh, but he played last night so that's not going to happen. 

There is a sense gradually the club is moving to a basic 4-2-2-2 set up based on recent U21's. I'd play Nunez and Sorensen as a pivot with Sainz and Sara, with SvH and Barnes up top. The width to come from Stacey and my preference of Sam. 

But I've no doubt it will be totally different. If it's 4-2-3-1 with Barnes up top on his own, then I can only see more trouble to come.

There's not a huge difference between 4-2-2-2 and 4-2-3-1 in my opinion. I've certainly noticed Sainz coming central a lot more in the last couple of games, so I guess the primary change is the nominal 'wide' players being more versatile and able to play more narrowly than usual (as Emi and Todd used to under Farke). And when you've got Josh and Barnes in the central attacking roles, Barnes is playing more as a Heskey/Sheringham style of 10 than a more withdrawn and creative Maddison style.

And although he does favour the double pivot, he also does that little tweak Farke used to do where Tettey would drop back between the CBs to allow the FBs to bomb forward; the only difference is that Wagner uses him (McLean/Sara/Nunez have all done it) more as a deep-lying playmaker or 'quarterback', whereas that was never Tettey's strong point.

The more I watch Wagner, the more I think he's a decent manager. No more than that, but he's certainly struggled with having key players unavailable for large swathes of the season. If Rowe, Sainz and Sargent had all stayed largely injury-free, I think we'd be comfortably in the top six.

There's a very, very large slice of the dichotomy where a manager is 'not as good as Daniel Farke' but 'better than Dean Smith'; it's just a case of whereabouts you place Wagner on that dichotomy. I don't think there are many fans who would stridently campaign for him to continue into next season, but for all his foibles I think he's doing alright.

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

11 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

If Idah was still here, he would start in that scenario, so if SVH doesnt , its a concern that we we've signed someone who we dont think is as good/ready/ can be trusted as much as Idah.

We never seem to sign anyone 'game ready'...

Yeah, that's fair comment. Fingers crossed he'll be worth it once he's up to speed...

[East Rider 585]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I've certainly noticed Sainz coming central a lot more in the last couple of games, so I guess the primary change is the nominal 'wide' players being more versatile and able to play more narrowly than usual

I think the tactic is that he and the other 'winger' squeezes in when we don't have the ball and wider when we do. 

I would like to see him tried just behind the main striker at some point. probably our most exciting player at the mo, worth the entrance money that's for sure

[The Real Buh 3,746]

Everyone better behave today or it’s no bitty for anyone!

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

1 minute ago, The Real Buh said:

Everyone better behave today or it’s no bitty for anyone!

Hush now, the grown-ups are talking.

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

6 minutes ago, East Rider said:

I think the tactic is that he and the other 'winger' squeezes in when we don't have the ball and wider when we do. 

I would like to see him tried just behind the main striker at some point. probably our most exciting player at the mo, worth the entrance money that's for sure

Yeah, I was thinking that. I think Wagner's primary setup this season was a bit more traditional, with two wingers as well as overlapping full-backs, and a more physical 10 to act as a foil for your primary goalscorer.

To be fair, though, that's what Farke preferred too... I can remember wondering why he persisted with Stiepermann as a 10 when Emi or even Todd seemed a more natural fit there. But it worked, and I think that was largely due to the auxiliary 'wide' attackers playing much more fluid and versatile roles.

The more I think about it, the more bizarre it was signing Duffy, Batth, Forshaw, Barnes and Hwang and then trying to make us a more traditional and physical Championship side. I'd love to know how much of that was Wagner and how much was Webber, but it totally went against everything that Webber had spent the previous six years working towards.

[BroadstairsR 2,272]

Let's see what today's box of frogs reveals.

We should win this easily, but then I'm "entitled" and it rankles with me that the Binners are more concerned with the results of the Southampton and Leeds games than we are. It should be the other way around.

Doesn't it you?

[Mello Yello 2,538]

16 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Everyone better behave today or it’s no bitty for anyone!

Oi loikes a tipple from da nipple....

[Monty13 2,710]

43 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Just out of interest, if Sarge isn't available today, how would you set the team up? You can't really drop Barnes after a goal and an assist on Tuesday, so I guess it's just hoping that he deems SVH ready for a start. But if he starts with Barnes up top and Sara just behind, I hope we can still just get behind the team.

If SVH wasn’t available to start why did we loan him and let Idah go when our star striker is struggling with injuries?

The guys been playing in a Serie A team, ok he wasn’t getting a lot of minutes but he has been in squads and playing.

He’s been here long enough now, if Wagner doesn’t start him that’s his decision and does question why we replaced Idah with our only signing for me.

I’m assuming it’s a straight swap if Sargents injured personally, that’s what I’d do as I assume that’s why we signed him, and will be surprised if not. The other viable alternative I see is starting Nunez and pushing Sara up to support Barnes which worked from the bench, but I think that still raises questions about why not SVH?

[Six Pack 105]

This forum is getting more & more bizarre -  Apologize to Wagner ??!!

In the past football managers had to gain respect -  not get it by asking for it !!! They gain respect by achieving results on the pitch, not whinging to the reporters. We are 7th at the moment, if we put together a winning run and cement a playoff spot you can guarantee the booing will stop - and Wagner will gain the respect of all supporters ! 

if we win the playoff final, he will be lauded a hero with most wanting him kept on.

[Indy 3,448]

5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

The more I think about it, the more bizarre it was signing Duffy, Batth, Forshaw, Barnes and Hwang and then trying to make us a more traditional and physical Championship side. I'd love to know how much of that was Wagner and how much was Webber, but it totally went against everything that Webber had spent the previous six years working towards.

FTW my point from the end of the summer transfer window, I’ve been saying that all season!

It’s a part of what was required to add some experience and battle, but what we ended up with was over the top knee jerk signings in Hwang, Foreshaw & Batth.

I’m happy to see Sorensen given the nod ahead of Batth, as I think he’ll be gone this summer, Sorensen will probably be given another year.

As for your comment about Barnes, yes he did score but even that was a poor header from two yards out nearly saved and that assist was from the first pass mi**** deflected back to him! He did OK but let’s not get carried away, he passed a five yard pass straight to the Watford player in our own box just after it went to 2-1! 
It might sound like I have a chip on my shoulder I don’t, I just see Barnes as a player who’s carried during a game.

For me if you do a straight swap Sargent for VH and start Barnes as normal then great, you push Barnes forwards and start Nunez then it’s going to be a struggle to score goals in my opinion.

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

If SVH wasn’t available to start why did we loan him and let Idah go when our star striker is struggling with injuries?

The guys been playing in a Serie A team, ok he wasn’t getting a lot of minutes but he has been in squads and playing.

He’s been here long enough now, if Wagner doesn’t start him that’s his decision and does question why we replaced Idah with our only signing for me.

I’m assuming it’s a straight swap if Sargents injured personally, that’s what I’d do as I assume that’s why we signed him, and will be surprised if not. The other viable alternative I see is starting Nunez and pushing Sara up to support Barnes which worked from the bench, but I think that still raises questions about why not SVH?

It is surprising how few minutes SVH has been given. My guess is that Idah wanted to go, as an Irish lad the opportunity to play for Celtic in a weak SPL must have been very appealing, and considering the stick he'd been getting from his own fans, a fresh opportunity was probably a good idea all round. Let's hope SVH gets a lot more pitch time today, and an opportunity to show us what he can do!

[Monty13 2,710]

13 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Let's see what today's box of frogs reveals.

We should win this easily, but then I'm "entitled" and it rankles with me that the Binners are more concerned with the results of the Southampton and Leeds games than we are. It should be the other way around.

Doesn't it you?

If we seriously want to be promotion contenders we simply have to win games like today. I don’t think it’s entitled when you acknowledge that winning today is very much the club’s expectation from their own comms.

QPR was an annoying performance and result, we all saw those subs and negative decisions lose us two points that were there when we needed to continue to establish ourselves in the playoff race, but in context of our overall run it wasn’t the end of the world. 

You can’t fail to beat Cardiff in their current form, especially given how much we rely on our home form. That’s not entitled to me, that’s just the obvious conclusion. Is that a lot of pressure? Yes, but that’s what everyone involved with the club is paid for.

[Feedthewolf 5,756]

4 minutes ago, Indy said:

FTW my point from the end of the summer transfer window, I’ve been saying that all season!

It’s a part of what was required to add some experience and battle, but what we ended up with was over the top knee jerk signings in Hwang, Foreshaw & Batth.

I’m happy to see Sorensen given the nod ahead of Batth, as I think he’ll be gone this summer, Sorensen will probably be given another year.

As for your comment about Barnes, yes he did score but even that was a poor header from two yards out nearly saved and that assist was from the first pass mi**** deflected back to him! He did OK but let’s not get carried away, he passed a five yard pass straight to the Watford player in our own box just after it went to 2-1! 
It might sound like I have a chip on my shoulder I don’t, I just see Barnes as a player who’s carried during a game.

For me if you do a straight swap Sargent for VH and start Barnes as normal then great, you push Barnes forwards and start Nunez then it’s going to be a struggle to score goals in my opinion.

I'm not a big fan of Barnes by any stretch, but with SVH not up to speed and Sarge managing an injury, we need to use him. He had his best game in a while on Tuesday, he's earnt the right to start today. And he will.

[BroadstairsR 2,272]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

If we seriously want to be promotion contenders we simply have to win games like today. I don’t think it’s entitled when you acknowledge that winning today is very much the club’s expectation from their own comms.

QPR was an annoying performance and result, we all saw those subs and negative decisions lose us two points that were there when we needed to continue to establish ourselves in the playoff race, but in context of our overall run it wasn’t the end of the world. 

You can’t fail to beat Cardiff in their current form, especially given how much we rely on our home form. That’s not entitled to me, that’s just the obvious conclusion. Is that a lot of pressure? Yes, but that’s what everyone involved with the club is paid for.

V. good.

[The Real Buh 3,746]

7 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Hush now, the grown-ups are talking.

The ex pats are talking