The Bunny 314 Posted February 22 25 minutes ago, Petriix said: Not really, as long as you explain the context i.e. the worst period in our recent history in comparison to the best etc. Obviously the table I shared above was a bit of a joke. It's a spectacular coincidence that our awful run ended when Webber left... but even the most recent good run is only playoff form. Which I suppose is why we're outside the playoffs when you take the season as a whole. Not to be pedantic, but that is literally the definition of cherry picking: Cherry-picking in data analytics refers to the selective and biased extraction of data or information for analysis. This practice involves choosing specific data points or datasets that support a desired conclusion while disregarding or ignoring other relevant data that may contradict or challenge that conclusion. https://www.institutedata.com/blog/cherry-picking-in-data-analytics/#:~:text=Cherry-picking in data analytics refers to the selective and,contradict or challenge that conclusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,566 Posted February 22 It's not even right. The run was actually 11 games up to the Blackburn game on bonfire night. My table picks it up from there because it was a watershed game. Here's what you could have won @Petriix... W D L Goals +/- Pts 1 Leicester 11 9 0 2 22:6 16 27 2 Ipswich 11 8 3 0 25:14 11 27 3 Leeds 11 7 2 2 18:8 10 23 4 Cardiff 11 6 2 3 17:9 8 20 5 Middlesbrough 11 6 2 3 19:14 5 20 6 Sunderland 11 6 1 4 20:11 9 19 7 West Brom 11 5 4 2 16:8 8 19 8 Swansea 11 5 2 4 15:11 4 17 9 Southampton 11 5 2 4 15:18 -3 17 10 Bristol City 11 5 1 5 13:12 1 16 11 Hull City 11 4 4 3 13:13 0 16 12 Blackburn 11 5 0 6 17:19 -2 15 13 Preston 11 4 3 4 15:20 -5 15 14 Watford 11 3 5 3 14:16 -2 14 15 Stoke City 11 4 2 5 11:14 -3 14 16 Huddersfield 11 3 5 3 12:18 -6 14 17 Plymouth 11 3 3 5 21:20 1 12 18 Millwall 11 2 5 4 12:15 -3 11 19 Coventry 11 2 4 5 14:18 -4 10 20 Rotherham 11 2 4 5 10:17 -7 10 21 Birmingham 11 2 3 6 12:17 -5 9 22 Norwich 11 2 1 8 13:24 -11 7 23 QPR 11 1 3 7 8:19 -11 6 24 Sheff Wed 11 1 3 7 3:14 -11 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,566 Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, Indy said: Isn’t a true reflection the current table? Not some random ten games four months back or most recent 18 games! Surely the current table is the only way to really judge our true form! Yes the true reflection will be the final table in May. I have no idea how that will turn out but in the mean time I reckon that the final table will reflect the last 18 games more that the random games four months ago. What do you think? Can we perhaps have some charity bets for Rays Funds... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,310 Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said: Yes the true reflection will be the final table in May. I have no idea how that will turn out but in the mean time I reckon that the final table will reflect the last 18 games more that the random games four months ago. What do you think? Can we perhaps have some charity bets for Rays Funds... There’s going to be ups and downs, we’ll no doubt win more than we lose and finish 8th! There how’s that? For every position we finish above 8th at 46 game in May I’ll donate £5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,566 Posted February 22 Just now, Indy said: There’s going to be ups and downs, we’ll no doubt win more than we lose and finish 8th! There how’s that? For every position we finish above 8th at 46 game in May I’ll donate £5. Nice one! I'll bung a fiver for every position below 8th. We're 8th now so it's all to play for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,310 Posted February 22 Just now, nutty nigel said: Nice one! I'll bung a fiver for every position below 8th. We're 8th now so it's all to play for. Top man! I’m not into current form guides, all teams go through poor patches and good it’s the best teams who are the most consistent over the 46 games. I just enjoy a good game of football, my best memories are the games v Southampton in the late 80’s with Le Tiss and his 4-3 win! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Petriix 2,847 Posted February 23 4 hours ago, The Bunny said: Not to be pedantic, but that is literally the definition of cherry picking: Cherry-picking in data analytics refers to the selective and biased extraction of data or information for analysis. This practice involves choosing specific data points or datasets that support a desired conclusion while disregarding or ignoring other relevant data that may contradict or challenge that conclusion. https://www.institutedata.com/blog/cherry-picking-in-data-analytics/#:~:text=Cherry-picking in data analytics refers to the selective and,contradict or challenge that conclusion. That's all very well, but of course I'm going to pick the data relating to my point. You'd have a valid argument if I was extrapolating something outside that selected period but all I did was say "look, we had an awful run earlier in the season". It would be totally illogical to pick a wider range of results while making that point. The "cherry picked" table is interesting because it shines a light on a particular period in a way that isn't normally visible (because, like @nutty nigel says, they don't publish random 10 game tables from earlier in the season). I'm not drawing any biased conclusions, I'm just saying "look how bad we were for that run of games". If you looked at the overall league table at that point it would have masked it by also including our really good start. So, sure, "biased" if I were to say "look how awful we are" based on that run. But I'm not so you're making a bit of a strawman argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Bunny 314 Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, Petriix said: That's all very well, but of course I'm going to pick the data relating to my point. You'd have a valid argument if I was extrapolating something outside that selected period but all I did was say "look, we had an awful run earlier in the season". It would be totally illogical to pick a wider range of results while making that point. Sure, if that's really your entire point then I don't think anyone would dispute it. The suggestion seemed to be that we should take that as evidence of future performance, but perhaps not. FWIW, my original post about cherry picking was in response to this from @TIL 1010 A random ten games you say which happens to be getting on for a quarter of a season. That is some sizeable random selection. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBaldOne66 697 Posted February 23 18 hours ago, nutty nigel said: @TheBaldOne66 We’re never going to agree on anything except the table after 46 games. Which will be a true reflection on our season. So let’s shut down all discussion between us about the league table until May when it’s finalised. Then we have total harmony. So serene and peaceful…. For those who do like to look at league tables during the season I still think the most recent 18 games are a more realistic vision of where we are now than a random 10 games four months ago. @Petriix can you conjure up a table for the last 18 like your 10 game one? It’s a bit hypocritical to say shut it down til the League is finished then ask for a table of the last 18 games isn’t it? Maybe we could have one for the first 18 games too for a bit of real perspective? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBaldOne66 697 Posted February 23 13 hours ago, nutty nigel said: Yes the true reflection will be the final table in May. I have no idea how that will turn out but in the mean time I reckon that the final table will reflect the last 18 games more that the random games four months ago. What do you think? Can we perhaps have some charity bets for Rays Funds... The final table reflects 46 games not the last 18 more than the previous four months! That 4 month spell is included in the FINAL table Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
